White in NH...Presi Traverse...missing hikers

[Waumbek]

Weren't there two gentlemen from down South (maybe North Carolina) about this time last year who went missing from the ridge and then spent a few days trying to get out -- finally being found in the Dry River Wilderness -- but having thier movement greatly hindered by high rivers and lack of snowbridges??? Maybe I've got the details wrong ...seem to remember something like this, though.

Yes, it was Feb. 20, 2008, when Obert and McCay went missing in the DRW due to a malfunctioning GPS and the prevailing wind:

http://www.unionleader.com/article....rticleId=e870206f-d560-4c00-b3dc-da6df5fb4c7a

The wind almost always rules, as Kevin notes, but trying to buck it may be more dangerous than baling out to the more sheltered east side despite the lack of roads. It leaches out body heat so fast that hypothermia is more likely. I recall the incident 10-15 years ago when someone did head down the west side from the Ike-Franklin col towards 302, which wasn't all that far, but into the wind. He was found dead sitting up, feet (bare, I believe) in a stream, clearly disoriented by hypothermia. Relatively closer road v. higher probability of hypotyhermia when going west--it's a tough call, and one that has to be made depending on conditions. Generally I agree with Kevin's point--although one may have to go east first in order to survive long enough to go west, or southwest, when conditions (wind) permit.

 

[DougPaul]

If hikers knew from a sign at the trailhead (or from reading it here, for that matter) that safety was found going west, more would go that direction, regardless of wind direction.

Seems to me, we have hashed this before.

Pragmatically, you cannot post all escapes from everything reachable from each trail head. And how many would read it...

The best that one can do is to study the route and escape routes beforehand. Hopefully one will have a good mental image of the area and only need the map for details.

In this particular case, they were doing an overnight with a planned camping location somewhere near Eisenhower. Particularly if they camped on the east side, I can see how they might have preferred to escape to the east rather over the ridge to the west after the wind kicked in.

Doug

 

[Oldmanwinter]

Won't be charged for rescue

Per WMUR, the two hikers will most likely not be charged for the rescue because they were well prepared.

 

[forestgnome]

http://www.unionleader.com/article....rticleId=198ba306-1635-4973-a7bb-c5e82a217211

First, Congrats and thanks to all who joined in the rescue.

Welcome, Imzadi, and thanks for all that you and F&G do for us

I think F&G was being very generous to say they were fine and would have made it out. Think of the situation. They were cold and exhausted and out of food and water. Now, think of starting to hike in that condition in unbroken snow from that point down to the Dry River and out.

Speculation, of corse, but I'd say chances were quite slim.

 

[MadRiver]

The account I read mentioned that they spent two nights in the Dungeon at Lakes before heading east. At first glance I wonder why they didn’t just head down Ammonoosuc. Then again, the high westerly winds might have forced them to the east as mentioned earlier.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Pragmatically, you cannot post all escapes from everything reachable from each trail head. And how many would read it...

What I had in mind were the main trailheads, like Appalachia, Lowes, Edmunds, etc - there are a few others - and only in the Presis. For the most part, these trailheads already have a notice board. On some of them F&G has posted the "Hike Safe" poster from time to time. The USFS already has the yellow signs "if you go beyond this point, you're all gonna die" usually near treeline. I don't mean to sound snarky here, but if the USFS can send staff regularly to Owls Head to remove a sign, they may have resources to put up a few laminated posters on the notice boards re: escape routes.

Education is usually cost-effective when it comes to public resources.

 

[wardsgirl]

Oakes Gulf just sucks people in every time, it seems. As a trail maintainer in this region, virtually the only people I run into (in summer) are those that are lost. Perhaps greater attention needs to be paid to the placement of signage in that area at the top of the gulf. If lost parties consulted maps, along with properly placed signage, it should become evident that a retreat into the Dry River Wilderness is not the best course of action.

Although the two hikers supposedly ran out of fuel, I assume that since they had the means to light a stove via a lighter or flint, they could have melted some snow for water by making a small fire. I would think that drinking warm liquids would go a long way to staving off hypothermia, even if they were out of food.

We were watching some ice climbing in Crawford Notch yesterday morning and were witnesses to the concentration of Fish and Game folks in the notch. Many thanks to them for watching out for hikers. Glad everything turned out OK.

 

[dug]

I am curious if people get to the top of the Oakes Gulf headwall and think they are going into the ravines on the west (Great Gulf, Tuckerman's, etc.)? Therefore, they would be thinking that getting into Pinkham wouldn't be the worse thing that can happen. In fact, going almost any other route would be better than where they end up.

 

[Fisher Cat]

Pragmatically, you cannot post all escapes from everything reachable from each trail head. And how many would read it...



Doug

That statement is as right as rain. Not only would it be colossally impractical, the weather is so unpredictable and there are too many variables involved that what seems like a good idea in the spot of one minute can be instantly changed the next. We all know how the weather can render plans useless. Freak storms, winds, precip, everything and anything can strike even "traditional" escape routes at the worst of times. It would be a bold claim, indeed, to know the intimate goings-on of the weather gods.

 

[dr_wu002]

That statement is as right as rain. Not only would it be colossally impractical, the weather is so unpredictable and there are too many variables involved that what seems like a good idea in the spot of one minute can be instantly changed the next. We all know how the weather can render plans useless. Freak storms, winds, precip, everything and anything can strike even "traditional" escape routes at the worst of times. It would be a bold claim, indeed, to know the intimate goings-on of the weather gods.

This takes me back to a thread that I once posted (and was unfortunately deleted, probably by accident) about hiking with a coffin. In this case it could serve as a dual purpose emergency shelter... much better than a tent or bivy as it won't get blown around in the wind and probably retains heat well. Also, once the dudes ran out of fuel they coulda busted up one of the coffins for additional firewood. Sure, the next night woulda been cramped -- 2 in 1 coffin -- but if they were smart, on a Presi Traverse, they woulda carried 3 or 4 extra coffins for the "just in case" scenarios like this one.

Too bad that thread was deleted... there was a lot of good info in it.

-Dr. Wu

 

[TCD]

FYI, an analogous thing has happened several times in the Adirondacks, where disoriented winter hikers on Mt. Marcy have fled downwind into Panther Gorge. While there is a trail in Panther Gorge, it's 8 miles out to the road that way, and it's little traveled in the winter. Most of these incidents have ended poorly, and a few tragically. On Marcy, it's a better choice to descend into the wind back towards Heart Lake. It's a much shorter trip to treeline than on the Presi, and the benefits of being much more likely to meet other people on that side outweigh the cost of the brief push into the wind.

It sounds like the pair in this thread were pretty well prepared. Glad it ended well.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

That statement is as right as rain. Not only would it be colossally impractical, the weather is so unpredictable and there are too many variables involved that what seems like a good idea in the spot of one minute can be instantly changed the next. We all know how the weather can render plans useless. Freak storms, winds, precip, everything and anything can strike even "traditional" escape routes at the worst of times. It would be a bold claim, indeed, to know the intimate goings-on of the weather gods.

Careful - you and Doug are twisting my words. I didn't suggest all possible escape routes be posted. Rather, I said " ... USFS could post ... If you DO have to bail, and don't have a carefully planned escape plan, go West"

And, anyone hiking above treeline WITHOUT constantly evaluating "what would I do right now now if the sh&t hit the fan" should reconsider whether they're prepared. Bad weather doesn't literally fall out of the sky ... you get some warning if you pay attention.

 

[hikes-with-him]

I think that this is the key to most of hiking...especially above treeline...and in the White...

Keep and eye, know what you are looking at, and (as you said before) know what you would do NOW if you had to bail...

You can't know all situations or warn for all possibilities...

 

[bobandgeri]

It's all about being prepared ahead of time. When going above treeline, especially in the Winter, have your bail out options mapped out with easy to read bearings . From what we have read and heard the two spend 1 or 2 nights at the emergancy shelter under the Lakes hut. So close to the trail to safety, but perhaps they were not aware.

 

[DougPaul]

Careful - you and Doug are twisting my words. I didn't suggest all possible escape routes be posted. Rather, I said " ... USFS could post ... If you DO have to bail, and don't have a carefully planned escape plan, go West"

There are already general purpose warning signs--they are large and yellow... And in some places and conditions, escape to the east (Lions Head) might be the route of choice.

Sound like you have been listening to Horace Greely of late... ("Go West young man." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horace_Greeley)

And, anyone hiking above treeline WITHOUT constantly evaluating "what would I do right now now if the sh&t hit the fan" should reconsider whether they're prepared. Bad weather doesn't literally fall out of the sky ... you get some warning if you pay attention.

This all assumes competence on the part of the hikers. Not always a valid assumption. And even competent hikers sometimes make decisions that don't seem to have been the best in retrospect.


In this particular case, they were staying at the shelter at Lakes of the Clouds Hut and Ammo Ravine Tr leaves from the corner of the hut, goes straight downhill, and funnels into the trees. This isn't obvious from the map, but the guidebook does say that the trail leaves from the corner of the hut. The current version of the report* states that they "searched around for some trailheads with no success" and '"They left Saturday morning with the intention of going to Dry River -- they thought that was their escape route," Gralenski said. "They bushwhacked over there and were going to follow the river to find a trail."'

<speculation on>
This is easy to suggest in retrospect (particularly since I have hiked ART to the hut), but it would appear that they lacked sufficient knowledge to find what should have been a fairly easy-to-find trail.
</speculation off>

<pet peeve on>
* I find it a bit annoying how the report at http://www.unionleader.com/article....rticleId=198ba306-1635-4973-a7bb-c5e82a217211 keeps getting updated rather than each update being filed under a new url. We could all be referring to different versions of the report...
<pet peeve off>

Doug

 

[Snowflea]

Jus' one comment...

This is why it's wise to carry snowshoes on a winter Presi traverse (which they were). See http://vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=27839

 

[Fisher Cat]

Careful - you and Doug are twisting my words. I didn't suggest all possible escape routes be posted. Rather, I said " ... USFS could post ... If you DO have to bail, and don't have a carefully planned escape plan, go West"

And, anyone hiking above treeline WITHOUT constantly evaluating "what would I do right now now if the sh&t hit the fan" should reconsider whether they're prepared. Bad weather doesn't literally fall out of the sky ... you get some warning if you pay attention.

No offense meant Kevin, and I certainly didn't interpret your statement earlier in a literal manner. Just a matter of hyperbole. I can't imagine anyone having the time or resources to ever install that kind of program, or any such endeavor. Nor could I imagine the liability (assumed or otherwise) due to the amount of variables involved. Yikes, there's a thread I'm sure has gone through the ringer before.

You are absolutely correct, I always have bailout plans in mind for every stage, and multiple ones at that. Everyone should.

And finally...kudos to the Rescue Teams and for the good news that the couple was safe!

 

[Oldmanwinter]

Huh?

I just don't understand, if you're at the Lakes hut AND you have a map, why wouldn't you head towards Marshfield Station, even if it is into the wind??

 

[jniehof]

Since they were found on the Dry River Cutoff, I wonder if the intent was to descent to the Cutoff and then come back to Crawford via Mizpah. If one were worried about the wind, and didn't know the Dry River valley is never broken out, it might seem reasonable to be in the lee of the ridge for awhile.

It could also just be coincidence, of course

 

[dug]

I found these reader's comments interesting. They start with the same dribble that always follows a rescue, but there are posts from some associated the NHARNG. Intereresting.

http://theunionleader.com/article.a...rticleId=198ba306-1635-4973-a7bb-c5e82a217211