White Mountain Fees/Thu-Hikers

[dug]

Camping around the Rattle River/Shelbourne Moriah area this weekend, and as expected was it heavy with Northbounders. Got chatting with one couple who were section hiking southbound. They were concerned about all the upcoming fees waiting for them in the Whites. "Is it true you have to pay everywhere in the Whites?"

We explained that there is no coincidence that nearly every stream close to a ridge has a campsite...and that site is probably a fee site. These shelters are planned to be a day's hike apart. So, if you planned on shelters and/or huts, you will have to pay.

But, I've never paid to camp. There are plenty of places to camp out if you want. Most summits have a spot near the top. Almost everywhere that is your "last water source" has a site nearby. Lots of hardwoods to go looking. We can only assume that have passed many a Northbounder who was probably pretty irritated after getting fee'd to death in New Hampshire.

So, my questions for Thru-Hikers are:

-Is that the reputation of New Hampshire: FEES?
-Did you always stay in a shelter, or the thought of looking for a campsite after a twenty-mile day for your 20th consecutve week not appealing?

Just curious.

 

[Pamola]

I am no thru-hiker but to my knowledge (far from infallible) folks doing MEGA or GAME never pay at the huts. Their lodging, albeit not in the bunkrooms, is paid for by helping the croo clean up after meals.

I imagine there are times when too many ATers come through for this to be reasonable, and I don't know the situation with the shelters.

 

[sapblatt]

I have seen thru hikers at Carter Notch who only had to help out the croo - they did not have to pay to stay. I am not sure of the policy at the shelters (Imp, Garfield Ridge, etc.) not at the tentsites (Naumann, etc.)

 

[poison ivy]

I have seen thru hikers at Carter Notch who only had to help out the croo - they did not have to pay to stay. I am not sure of the policy at the shelters (Imp, Garfield Ridge, etc.) not at the tentsites (Naumann, etc.)

It depends on the caretaker at the tentsites, I think. I stayed at Garfield Ridge with a thru-hiker who was grumbing about having to move some rocks around in order to save the $8. For all the complaining he did, I thought it would probably have been worth it for him to just pay the $8 instead of doing work for stay.

- Ivy

 

[Mark]

...
Their lodging, albeit not in the bunkrooms, is paid for by helping the croo clean up after meals.
...

If they don't stay in the bunkrooms, where do they sleep? On the tables?

 

[sapblatt]

If they don't stay in the bunkrooms, where do they sleep? On the tables?

when I was at Carter Notch, it was not full, so the thru hikers slept in bunk rooms. It is not uncommon to see people sleeping on the floor in the main rooms, or on the tables when it is crowded.

 

[Dugan]

Their lodging, albeit not in the bunkrooms, is paid for by helping the croo clean up after meals.

Once upon a time, AT thru-hikers could trade work for shelter/hut space. This privilege was not granted to all those who requested, and was strictly at the discretion of the AMC staff person(s) on site. As such, it was not considered a dependable source of free lodging.

Also, in that long ago day, AMC was said to stand for Appalachian Money Collectors.

 

[Pamola]

If they don't stay in the bunkrooms, where do they sleep? On the tables?

To echo sapblatt, they sleep anywhere. I remember one busy night at Lakes when a southbounder slept in the stone basement with the array of solar capacitors.

I would have taken a table myself, but he understandably crashed early and people were still up and about.

 

[Doc McPeak]

I've talked with lots of thru hikers the last couple years I've been hiking in NH, and it seems very rare when one cannot do work-for-stay. Most croos do what they can for them, unless the person is really obnoxious.

As for the sites and money issue. I've stayed at several (Guyot, Garfield, Imp) and every one has been in a fabulous spot and worth the money. I've also stealth camped in nice spots, too. Since the ADKS are free, I don't mind supporting those sites a little. And Carter Notch rocks! Too bad I've heard they're going full service. I think they should have a trailwork-for-stay policy for us "full time" hikers. One day = one night.

 

[dug]

I think the concern is that if you just hiked through 16 or so states and didn't have to pay very often, then you get whacked every night for a couple of weeks, it can get pretty expensive...especially on a limited budget. I don't mean to speak for someone else...

 

[sapblatt]

I think the concern is that if you just hiked through 16 or so states and didn't have to pay very often, then you get whacked every night for a couple of weeks, it can get pretty expensive...especially on a limited budget. I don't mean to speak for someone else...

It would be expensive if you were going to pay "full service" hut prices...could be around six consecutive nights at aroune $80/night.

 

[giggy]

welcome to new england - the region of high tax and less service.

then again - why should thru hikers get special treatment if we all have to pay. Don't get me wrong - I am against any of these fees - anywhere. I hate paying taxes - including the user taxes.

What the deal with that anyway - who gets that cash, the AMC or the Forest Service. (for the tentsites, not the huts). Some are AMC operated I think - I never pay attention - just nod and pay like the drone I am.......

the biggest rip off is hermit lake shelters, but I still stay at them like the drone I am.............................

 

[Peaks]

So, my questions for Thru-Hikers are:

-Is that the reputation of New Hampshire: FEES?
-Did you always stay in a shelter, or the thought of looking for a campsite after a twenty-mile day for your 20th consecutve week not appealing?

Just curious.

The reputation of the AMC is "All my cash."

Having said that, anyone who thinks that the only way to get through the Whites is to pay has not done their homework. There is plenty of information available about how to get through the Whites without paying, and doing it legally. And information like that provided by Packrat in Glencliff, and in the ALDHA Companion, and elsewhere.

 

[AntlerPeak]

Several years back when hiking the AT (Kennebec to Gorham) I found it interresting that every site that had a MATC caretaker was free. The minute I hit a site with an AMC caretaker it was pay this pay that. What irritated me the most was at Spec Pond they charged per person for a tent platform. I asked the caretaker how is it that my tent on the tent platform takes up more room if two people are in it than if there is only one person in it? Excuse me they are renting a space, it's not a hostle where more service is provided because there is more than one person on the tent platform. At any rate because of the wilderness hospitality provided by the MATC to the hiking public for free and the outstanding manner which they maintain the trail I sent them a check every year and donated over two weeks of service as a caretaker myself. It is this example that distinguished why I have the highest respect for the M.A.T.C. while giving little regard to the A.M.C.

 

[DougG]

With the food, gear, and countless other expenses that must go into funding a thru-hike, I wonder what percentage is budgeted for WMNF overnight expenses?
Thru hikers complaining about the hut and tent site fees have all the validity of someone who just bought new golf clubs, shoes, clothes, club membership, you-name-it, and then bi**hes about green fees.

 

[dug]

With the food, gear, and countless other expenses that must go into funding a thru-hike, I wonder what percentage is budgeted for WMNF overnight expenses?
Thru hikers complaining about the hut and tent site fees have all the validity of someone who just bought new golf clubs, shoes, clothes, club membership, you-name-it, and then bi**hes about green fees.

Yes, but if you golfed for free for the previous few months, and then you had to pay unexpectedly, you'd complain. Are the courses better? Maybe. But, I guess the complaint could be that I don't want your courses, but you put one right where I want to go...now I HAVE to.

I don't want this to turn into an AMC-rant. I have my own feelings about that. I was just wondering from a thru-hiker perspective if that is their opinion. We were kind of chuckling "Hey, the woods are a big place. Go find a spot if you want one." But, the AntlerPeak's post brought it to light. These two hikers were Southbounders, so they had been used to the pleasurable Maine experience already.

 

[AntlerPeak]

I don't want this to turn into an AMC-rant. I have my own feelings about that. I was just wondering from a thru-hiker perspective if that is their opinion. We were kind of chuckling "Hey, the woods are a big place. Go find a spot if you want one." But, the AntlerPeak's post brought it to light. These two hikers were Southbounders, so they had been used to the pleasurable Maine experience already.

Exactly, it is not an AMC trashing, it is the perception that one experiences. I had received hand written updates on miles of recent re-los in Maine from Carl Newhall of the MATC. Another member facilitated contact with IP that allowed me to obtain permission to utilize their logging roads from Bingham to access the trail avoiding the crossing of the Kennebec. Until then I had no prior connection with anyone in the M.A.T.C. They did this as a courtesy.

None of the campsites/shelters that had a caretaker asked for anything in regard to fees, etc. The caretakers were helpful and very knowledgeble. The Maine Guide said nothing about fees at Spec Pond. It only said in season there is a caretaker. Hikers generally do not carry a lot of cash and I had just enough to make an emergency phone call. So upon arrival at Spec Pond two days before our scheduled exit the caretaker wanted to charge per head for the bloody tent platform. The total for myself and my son was exactly one dollar more than I had in my pocket.

Now then what infurriated me was not having the unexpected expense dumped out of the blue, but the fact this "caretaker" could not understand the simple concept that my two man Sierra Designs tent occupied the same space whether my son was with me or not. A few dollars for the space was bad enough but to double the price because my kid was with me really fried my senses. Especially since I was a buck short. We opted out. The guy had the nerve to say "Camping in the Notch is not allowed. And being dusk you don't have time to hike through it." He wasn't concerned enough about safety to relent on the lousy dollar in question. We left thinking nice thoughts about the AMC.

We did find a legal site beyond the notch before dark. After climbing Hall, Moody, Surplus Mtns, then the Baldpates, Old Spec and the Notch I was in no mood to face the climb up to Fulling Mill. It was a heck of a one day grunt with a full pack. In my tent that night there was no warm and fuzzy feeling about that caretaker. Maine was great the MATC excellent but as I said the perception garnered from my first encounter with an AMC caretaker did not warm me to that organization. I suspect this whole fee structure thing can ring sour with many AT hikers. Especially after they encounter many other AT organizations.

I don't harbor any ill will toward the AMC, they do good work and are an excellent steward for the outdoors and somebody has to pay for the services. I am just illustrating how it can appear to someone walking though after positive experiences everywhere else.

 

[RoySwkr]

Yes, the AMC has taken the best spaces for huts & shelters

They do have a work-for-stay program to which DM will probably provide a link but only a couple hikers per site per night

Locals like myself can find out about free locations but those from other areas who don't know exactly where they'll be each night will find it a chore, the guidebooks aren't full of info on free alternatives

I can see why thru-hikers don't see why this is such a pay area but can also see why the AMC doesn't give them a blanket exemption

 

[bryan]

the amc sets a quota for each hut with regards to how many thru hikers they can take each night. whether this is followed or not depends on the individual crews and their attitudes. the numbers seem to reflect the amount of "work" to be done at each hut based on guest capacity, etc. it doesn't seem to factor viability of other options in the area. season to season some huts are thru hiker friendly and others are not. their reputations shift from season to season based on the crew. i alway loved thru hikers. the majority were great people and i preferred them impacting the floor of the hut rather then a bootleg site up the trail. i never cared for those who i would pass on the trail bad mouthing the amc and then stopping in the hut for water and snacks though.
i have heard of thru hikers squatting at huts with the crews for days at a time (most likely due to pretty girls....) and on one occasion met a thru hiker who joined up with a hut crew member for a hut traverse (in the reverse of the way he was going). it all depends on the individuals involved.

bryan

 

[Bob]

What I don't understand is why one 'club' charges double or triple the user fees for the exact same services that another club charges.