Who Are These People???? (Rant on Illegal Camping in the Whites)

[HighHorse]

^ that sucks...

but basically i repeat shadowcat's question, except substitute whites for 'daks... where are the rangers?

 

[Periwinkle]

but basically i repeat shadowcat's question, except substitute whites for 'daks... where are the rangers?

Oh, you never know....

For all my talk about regulations, etc., I'll jump off my "high horse" for a moment to admit that I once illegally camped.

[Disclaimer: Only when forced to by rude, shelter-hogging individuals, then after scouting for a legal site, after which we chose the point of least impact, an illegal site.]

Disclaimers aside, Mr. Ranger arrived early in the morning, just after we had broken camp. This dude must have started up the trail at top speed at the crack of dawn. It was quite obvious that we were in the process of packing up overnight gear. But, to our favor, there was not one bit of evidence of our camp. LNT to the extreme. Mr. Ranger was very nice, even saying that he wished more people were as thoughtful.

I've also heard tales from rangers of night patrols in problem areas. You really never know....

 

[SteveHiker]

Re: GRT poop drop

>>>>on Garfield Ridge trail Saturday, I came across a spot where someone, ah, answered nature's call right along the edge of a rather narrow section of the trail. Pretty disgusting.

Someone else left a note next to it that said "This is why we filter our water" and then something else illegible.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Hey, I saw that too on my Hut Traverse last Thursday...It was good for a (somewhat disgusting) chuckle. I am trying to picture what the offender would have done if caught in the act in the very narrow and exposed "drop zone" they chose

Yeah, I got quite a laugh myself. Although I actually couldn't tell which end it came out of. Were you able to make out what the second person wrote?

 

[MadRiver]

On Sunday some friends and I were hiking the Wilderness Trail and stopped to chat with the ranger at the Franconia campsite. I forget how the subject came up but he basically said that the worst offenders of backcountry ethics were Boy Scouts. In fact, he had to recently fine one group of Scouts $900.00 for a variety of offenses.

I also mentioned that I dropped a dime a person/group who had pitched their tent in the middle of the Lincoln Woods Trail two weeks earlier and was delighted to find out that they were fined $50.00.

 

[lumberzac]

I was up on Santanoni Peak (Adirondacks) just yesterday. When I stood on the summit rock I noticed on the other side the dwarf spruce was covered with the little white tickets left behind by thoughtless soul whom thought the summit was their own personal toilet.

 

[shadowcat]

?????

re: daks / Santanoni Peak etc
i think, based on my experiences that our problems aren't as bad as other areas? but i again note i have yet to see a ranger while hiking. are rangers paid or volunteer? is that the problem - not enough funding to pay for more rangers or not enough qualified volunteers?
also: i'm trying to remember the info you see at the registration posts and if they have any signs about what the fines are for littering, illegal camping (not wearing snowshoes) etc.
sometimes just the "illusion" that you could get caught and fined helps deter some folks.
and i would again like to post (re: the Daks): if you were to see a violation or abuse; where could you call to report it? what would they do? unless the folks are still there to catch is it worth calling in? if they get enough calls about a certain area; will they then post a ranger there more often? any info on how this ranger stuff works will be appreciated.
thanks

 

[crazymama]

I've seen rangers in the Adirondacks on a number of occasions. They tend to patrol and be present in the highly used areas like Lake Colden, Marcy Dam, etc. In July while we were camping at the Feldspar Lean-to for 3-4 days, there was a ranger camped across the brook the entire time, keeping an eye on all the goings-on. Very personable and took her job very seriously. We were a pretty responsible bunch, but she was able to find a few rules we had broken: one in our party carried in a glass wine bottle with full intentions of packing out the empty (glass is not allowed); and we had pitched our tent in the wrong spot in the camping area (we promptly moved it.)

If you don't stumble upon a ranger on the trails, you may be able to find one at the DEC Outposts at Lake Colden or JBL. The after hours emergency phone number for the DEC for the high peaks area is: 518-891-0235. The general info number is 518-897-1200. I think if you called it in, they would contact the ranger who is in the backcountry to address it, they all carry radios and keep in contact with each other.

You know I probably should put these numbers into the speed dial on my cell phone. The only limitation is that I can only get phone service when I'm on my way home, or on a summit.

 

[Barry Sr]

I'm amazed that the aren't teached LNT to Boy Scouts and other such youth groups. The days of campfires and cutting down trees to make camp furniture are over.

LNT is still highly regarded and practiced in the BSA.
Just because someone is taught something will not guarentee they live by that code. PLEASE do not stereotype us in one group.
Our boys always LNT. The adults involved make sure of it.
Groups who are guilty of leaving behind a mess are lacking proper adult supervision.

 

[cooperhill]

My apologies - I should have said that scout troop. I'd be curious to know if its now a part of any badge requirements to learn the principles of LNT. I know that it is a separate award.

Chris
(eagle scout - troop 160)

 

[Barry Sr]

My apologies - I should have said that scout troop. I'd be curious to know if its now a part of any badge requirements to learn the principles of LNT. I know that it is a separate award.

Chris
(eagle scout - troop 160)

LNT is a seperate award.
There is a World Conservation Award that encompasses a number of merit badges earned such as; Wildlife Conservation, Environmental Science, and Soil and Water Conservation.
It also includes doing service work cleaning up after these persons we are all talking about.

Scouts get ripped alot for the 3% of the boys who are there but not learning or listening. No real offense taken Chris.

YIS,

Barry
Troop 3 Dedham, MA

 

[MadRiver]

I have run into some Boy Scouts a few times on the trail and have had good and bad experiences. I do agree, however, that Scout Troops are only as good as their leaders. If “dad” is the troop leader and isn’t knowledgeable on LNT or backcountry ethics, then the troop will not learn these valuable lessons.

My nephew is in the Scouts and their troop does minimal backcountry hikes. They usually just camp at a Scout camp here in CT and rarely venture northward. I do believe that the moniker of “Boy Scout” has been significantly altered over the years to not include wilderness knowledge or experience. For example, my nephew is two badges away from Eagle and knows nothing of wilderness survival. I’m not saying all Eagles Scouts are this delinquent in their backcountry training; it just seems that having wilderness experience is no longer the norm.

 

[Barry Sr]

I have run into some Boy Scouts a few times on the trail and have had good and bad experiences. I do agree, however, that Scout Troops are only as good as their leaders. If “dad” is the troop leader and isn’t knowledgeable on LNT or backcountry ethics, then the troop will not learn these valuable lessons.

My nephew is in the Scouts and their troop does minimal backcountry hikes. They usually just camp at a Scout camp here in CT and rarely venture northward. I do believe that the moniker of “Boy Scout” has been significantly altered over the years to not include wilderness knowledge or experience. For example, my nephew is two badges away from Eagle and knows nothing of wilderness survival. I’m not saying all Eagles Scouts are this delinquent in their backcountry training; it just seems that having wilderness experience is no longer the norm.

Wilderness Survival was required for eagle until a few years back. It was one of the first ones my son earned when he started.
He will become Eagle in the spring.
We wilderness and car camp equally to let the younger boys learn the ropes (literally with the knots) before we hit the real trail.

 

[Periwinkle]

Update on the Area

I did submit a report to the U.S.F.S. last Thursday. I talked to a number of people in the office, including the enforcement officer. They did a good job of keeping out most of the bozos this past weekend. I only found evidence of one group having been in a nearby area, and I think I've finally figured out how they are avoiding detection...Not for long....

Well, it took a week to get there to do what I had intended to do. I waited until after the holiday weekend, but where there were three, now there are six. I shall overcome....


In memory of Lenny Kupsc -- Grant that I many never seek so much to be consoled as to console, to be understood as to understand, to be loved, as to love with all my soul.

 

[Grumpy]

Re: Update on the Area

Well, it took a week to get there to do what I had intended to do. I waited until after the holiday weekend, but where there were three, now there are six. I shall overcome....

Good for you, Periwinkle. You go, Girl!

G.

 

[Jasonst]

That's a great area - I may have been tempted to camp there too - but rest assured that I would have taken GREAT care of those great trees!

 

[Dalraida]

More?

Yesterday AM as I was on my way up Caps Ridge I smelled fresh wood smoke at the Pothole Rocks. Several people were camped just off the trail. I noticed that there was a clearly worn in path going toward their campsite. Is this a legal area? They were probably about 75 feet off the trail. I was tempted to tell them about the nice sites just about 250 yards down the Link, and the pretty nice stream crossing the link just beyond, but I was too irked at the situation to be even a mote friendly.

 

[Quietman]

This camp site has been discused before. There is no 200 ft rule on the Caps Ridge trail and it is a hardened site and does not have a no camping sign. So by the rule book, it's legal.

 

[tonycc]

I'm amazed that the aren't teached LNT to Boy Scouts and other such youth groups. The days of campfires and cutting down trees to make camp furniture are over.

LNT is becoming a standard practice in Boy Scouts. They have literature, training and an award system in place See the details here.

As an instructor and a leader of scouts, I have no problem with the kids*. It is the adults who try and recreate the "good old" days that I find hard to change.

Tony

* Except for the annoying habit many have of just leaving garbage round, or letting it drop to the ground. They must have mothers following them around picking this stuff up for them. Not me, after being harassed a few times and being made to clean up their mess and then some, they get the message. You would never find a problem with any of our campsites after we leave, and I don't have to prompt them to make sure of it.