Why Is My Backpack So Much Bigger Than Yours?

[Raven]

I carry an Osprey Aether 70 in winter and for backpacks. It's more than most in terms of size; I'm probably on the high end of pack size but it compresses and rides very well. I do a fair amount of solo winter trips so I am careful to have what I believe to be necessary. In the summer I use a very small hydration pack and tend to carry less than average.

I have been asked multiple times how many days I am out for. My answer is usually something like, "planning for one, but I'll be okay for more than that if I need to be." I also would prefer to do more than simply survive in an emergency and would prefer to be comfortable. I have not found the extra weight to be an issue for me personally but it's also not over 40 pounds. Any more than that and I find the pack too heavy.

 

[mirabela]

do you feel that the extra pack size and weight is ever a liability? This is often the argument given by the "light and fast" followers.

I can think of one occasion when my pack, at its cautious, solo/remote heaviest, contributed to me getting fairly worn out and perhaps covering less ground than I might have with less on my back (i.e. did not tag all three Santanonis). Having said that, I try not to let things go to the point where exhaustion becomes the problem. I also look at it a little like this -- if an itinerary is too long or taxing for me to cover while still carrying what I'd need to survive a broken leg, then it isn't an appropriate one for me to be taking on as a winter day trip.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Certainly everyone who has gone "light and fast" and "gotten away with it" has their position reinforced, and likewise if you needed help from within your pack, you would feel the same. I'm looking for stories where the heavier pack has caused real trouble, like requiring the use of its contents. I have been known to leave my pack for short summit-cone detours (think Garfield, Passaconaway, maybe Monroe). The heavier the pack, the greater that temptation. I never drop it if I am solo.

In reality, I regularly use: a hat, gloves/liners/shells, a buff for collecting sweat, and my hardshell. Pretty much everything else (except food+water) stay packed in my pack, and never come out. I could, for the most part, do these trips with a Camelbak that could hold my shell, and a few good pockets. Especially for a shorter trip like Tecumseh, Hale or Cannon.

Tim

 

[dug]

So, Jamie (and others), that begs the question - do you feel that the extra pack size and weight is ever a liability? This is often the argument given by the "light and fast" followers. I try and stay in the middle, but anecdotally, I've been mistaken for an overnighter, but never been called out for going too light.

Tim

I felt that way, which is a reason why I scaled mine back. I looked at what I'd take for an overnight, vs. a day hike, and it was virtually the same. My goal is to be comfortable for a day, and survive the night. That's it. If I am in an emergency, I anticipate I will be uncomfortable so I pack accordingly. My pack maxes at 30 lbs, and is most often lighter...depending on what I am doing. I do more low-level ski trips in the winter vs. peaks, so a lighter pack is essential.

 

[madmattd]

I usually use my 38L Osprey Kestrel in winter. I carry a similar load to what Tim (bikehike...) and others post here and it fills the 38L to the gills. With food, 2L water, and microspikes it comes in around 29-30 pounds all up, add 4 pounds for the snowshoes if I'm carrying them too.

I try and stay in the middle, but anecdotally, I've been mistaken for an overnighter, but never been called out for going too light.

Same here, though I've not had the overnighter comment too often in winter. I've gotten it very frequently in summer though.

 

[IQuest]

My winter pack is a 75L. Bigger that what I would prefer, were I to replace it, but it holds everything inside nicely. Usually weighs about 30 pounds or so without snowshoes. I also start most hikes with about a gallon of liquid. The way I see it, it will olny get lighter as the hike goes on.

 

[Tom_Murphy]

I'm looking for stories where the heavier pack has caused real trouble, like requiring the use of its contents. Tim

I have never been benighted because of the pack weight. I have done fewer miles then I had hoped for on many occasions.

I view it as not having the physical condtioning the hike required rather than having both brought too much gear.

 

[DougPaul]

So, Jamie (and others), that begs the question - do you feel that the extra pack size and weight is ever a liability? This is often the argument given by the "light and fast" followers.

You may recall a certain solo BC XC ski trip where the contents of my ~23lb pack suddenly became very useful... (Broken femur ~4 mi from the trailhead.) Even if I would have survived without the gear, I was a lot happier (and more comfortable) with than I would have been without. Also, for those who aren't up on their cold-weather first aid, keeping a victim warm is a major factor in controlling shock. (I detected no evidence of shock.)

For another data point, my pack was ~28lbs on the 25mi Pemi Lollipop BC ski that Becca and I did in 2011. http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?39621-Pemi-Ski-Loop-in-Less-than-30-Hours-) I was mighty tired when I got back to the car 28.5 hours after starting and of course never used most of the gear, but I don't regret the weight. IMO, having the gear reduced the risk and made the risk of the trip justifiable.

FWIW, I consider myself to be a medium weighter.

Doug

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Your pack weight, Doug, was not a factor in causing the accident.

BTW, I go with a 22L Talon in summer. It's a bit small and the straps are designed for a lighter carry than I typical go with. For most trips, it is ideal, but to carry 5L of liquid (for a Pemi Loop, say), it was not as comfy as I would have liked.

Tim

 

[DougPaul]

Your pack weight, Doug, was not a factor in causing the accident

You were there?

It may or may not have been a factor--heavy packs make skiing control more difficult. I was turning around the end of a blowdown when disaster struck. Perhaps I would have turned a little better without it or without the fatigue of having carried it and missed the blowdown. Also the weight of the pack may have increased the impact forces and increased the injuries. (I broke a distal femur, a hip, and a wrist.) I don't think one can definitely say either way.

The primary point that I was making in the reference to the accident was that the weighty contents of my pack became immensely useful after the accident. This, IMO, justified the many miles that I had carried them without using them.

Doug

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Sorry, that was meant to end with a ?

I was almost there

Everyone is always glad to have insurance after the accident. Still looking for an example where someone thinks they would have avoided the accident had they gone lighter.

Tim

 

[Tim Seaver]

Another question to ponder: How many rescues have been carried out specifically due to something that was not carried vs. navigational errors, injury, etc.

(The obvious one being the a light source!)

EDIT: I almost think there should be a separate category for the "I don't need a light" crowd. That's NOT "fast and light", it's just stupid.

 

[Mike P.]

The many extra pounds I'm carrying inside the shell are more of a factor than what is in my pack! Day one for exercice, worked up a sweat & should be good for tomorrow. Will join the AMC EOR group Thursday for a local hike.

The extra weight in your pack can probably effect your balance in graceful activities, climbing skiing, trail running, probably snowshoe running but has to be offset with your safety. Did it impact DougPaul's accident? Maybe, he's probably the only one who really knows and he apparently has come to accept that the extra stuff was very helpful, maybe critical to his safety after he fell.

Probably not as much lighter is safer banter now as a fall in summer by a trail runner probably won't end in death due to hypothermia, the I was on a 8 mile run is more of summer goal then winter. In winter more people are prone to follow the old rule, the top is optional, back to the car is mandatory.

 

[Neil]

1) What size pack are most of you hiking in?
2) What does your fully loaded pack weigh (lbs), including food and water?

1-Lately, Mountain Hardware Summit Rocket 30 L
2-roughly 15 lbs.

Contents on last hike: Marmot 800 fill down parka (1.8lbs), Patagonia puff pants, Rab primaloft jacket (Xenon?), 2 base layer shirts, food and 1 liter water, extra wool mitts (2 pr) shell mitts, 2 headlamps, extra batteries, map compass, 1st aid, matches, etc., extra balaclava, socks and VBL socks, goggles, face mask, crampons on outside of pack. In pockets of shell: more food, camera, more extra mitts that came on and off according to hand comfort.

I did about 8000 feet of elly gain and consumed 800 mls of water plus 500 mls of protein drink. I used to carry 3 liters, then 2, now only one (boiling water in Nalgene in water bottle jacket in pack, stays warm all day.) If weather warmer than it was last Sat. I forgo the water bottle jacket.

 

[hikerbrian]

Tim-
Great question. Other than Dougpaul's story, I'm not aware of any accident being caused by carrying a large-ish pack.

[Hikerbrian's opinion] Anyone who is relatively new to this game who hikes "fast and light" in the winter is most likely ignorant, possibly lazy, or maybe both. Exceptions to this rule are rare. [/Hikerbrian's opinion]

My evolution of pack size went from light/nonexistant (ignorant) to absurdly heavy (slightly less ignorant) to "reasonable" (slightly less ignorant still), which still gets mistaken for an overnight pack - I bring similar items to most others on this thread. But at least I'm not lazy! My list still evolves every year - mostly to lighter/smaller stuff that gets the same job done. Ironically enough, I think I'm evolving towards my "ignorant" self in terms of pack weight.

I don't do a lot of dayhiking in the winter - if I'm going to drive all the way up there, I'm getting at least one night in the woods! But for winter day hikes I use the REI Flash - it's 62 L but only weighs 3 lbs. I've spent a long time trying to pare down my packing list to only include the items I consider essential, so I'm not tempted to fill the extra space with unnecessary stuff. In addition to the clothes on my back, this will include fleece pants, a big puffy jacket, and a foam pad. Within the group will be some kind of light weight shelter (e.g. Betamid or tarp), 1-2sleeping bags, and a Whisperlite w/ fuel and pot. If I'm solo I'd guess my pack approaches 30 lbs.

I think there's a fair amount of confusion that results from lay people reading accounts of the hard women and men who climb absurdly difficult lines in the Himalaya, Karakoram, the Alps, Alaska and elswhere. They see "alpine style" and "fast and light" glorified, and the mountaineers repeatedly refer to the necessity of this style of climbing to complete their objectives. But the North Face of the Eiger and Lion Head Winter Route are fundamentally diffferent beasts - anyone who needs to go "fast and light" in order to complete Lion Head Winter Route ought to start by working on their fitness.

 

[DougPaul]

Everyone is always glad to have insurance after the accident.

Very true, but, of course, you have to buy the insurance (ie decide what to put in your pack) before you go out...

Doug

 

[Red Oak]

1-Lately, Mountain Hardware Summit Rocket 30 L
2-roughly 15 lbs.

Contents on last hike: Marmot 800 fill down parka (1.8lbs), Patagonia puff pants, Rab primaloft jacket (Xenon?), 2 base layer shirts, food and 1 liter water, extra wool mitts (2 pr) shell mitts, 2 headlamps, extra batteries, map compass, 1st aid, matches, etc., extra balaclava, socks and VBL socks, goggles, face mask, crampons on outside of pack. In pockets of shell: more food, camera, more extra mitts that came on and off according to hand comfort.

I did about 8000 feet of elly gain and consumed 800 mls of water plus 500 mls of protein drink. I used to carry 3 liters, then 2, now only one (boiling water in Nalgene in water bottle jacket in pack, stays warm all day.) If weather warmer than it was last Sat. I forgo the water bottle jacket.

Almost my set up to a tee. Except I got some very thick polysomething pant liners instead of puff pants. I forgo the extra batteries,new batteries that are kept warm and dry work fine! For example I have never gotten the concept of a pad when spruce boughs work fine as a natural pad.[except in alpine zone] I would hope if someone needs to do a bivouac they are not afraid to kill a small spruce tree, if its your life or a tree, save yourself! You can get the spruce limbs without the need of a saw also. Every winter I see lots of hikers with oversized day packs falling all over the place. Put one of these people on micros on a steep trail with tricky ice,yikes. Also if worried about potential issues maybe hike more slowly. Just my 2 cents.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Another question to ponder: How many rescues have been carried out specifically due to something that was not carried vs. navigational errors, injury, etc.

(The obvious one being the a light source!)

A light is so important that it is the one required item for hiking in Baxter State Park. They ask about a light and firewood. You must have the former and not have the latter.

Tim

 

[jfb]

Am I missing something? I was using a 50L pack until recently but switched to a multi-day model (I think 90L) just so it was easy to organize all of this stuff into convenient places to access and lash snow shoes onto it, etc. (The 50L held everything - it was just too cluttered for me).

I fit all my stuff into a 40 liter pack, including water bottles. Snowshoes, crampons and ice axe (as required) are attached on the outside. If you need a 90 liter pack to fit 50 liters of gear, then you are probably packing it ineffectively. Do you use stuff sacks to organize gear and compression stuff sacks for bulky clothing?

 

[Raven]

Sorry, that was meant to end with a ?

I was almost there

Everyone is always glad to have insurance after the accident. Still looking for an example where someone thinks they would have avoided the accident had they gone lighter.

Tim

I have not had an accident due to pack weight, however I have had more minor effects such as leg cramps in winter along with muscle fatigue that I'm sure were exacerbated by pack weight. These were backpacking trips with 10 or more pounds than I normally carry however. On trips where I have had to break trail for any significant distance (a few Zealand/Bonds attempts come to mind) I have reached a point where I knew I was too fatigued to safely and realistically continue on solo. Less pack weight would surely have lead to less muscle fatigue and the possibility of putting my original goal within range. As it was, I never regretted carrying the weight as I knew I could safely drop for the night where I was and have turned around multiple times on trips when something was not right. I made 5 winter attempts to overnight West Bond over 6 winters and very much felt the extra weight each time, even on the successful one.