Wildcat Winter Rules - Background and Discussion

[natron]

really?

If I was the ski area I would want to collect from the free-loading sliders and skinners who are there only because the ski area is.

have you conducted surveys? I earn turns pre-chairs, 1-2x a week @ sunday river.. I don't consider myself a free-loader because after I earn some turns I then take chair laps.. also I've spent over $10,000 in the last 20 years on season passes and day tix at my home resort. How much $ have the only-hikers shelled out @ the resorts? when I'm earning turns in the morning, I rarely run into others but the ones I have are mainly season pass holders, not to mention my home ski mt.'s riv+loaf have o.k.'d this with me as long as the person has a season pass or a day ticket.. most of my "free-loading" happends in the "real bc", foot hills of maine and the prezzis (I've boarded over 70+ times on mt.w. alone) so IMO this free-loading statement is your perception, how many times have you personally asked these free-loaders if they had a season pass or a day pass? you might find out that the majority of these free loaders are contributing real $ to the resorts vs. a measley $10 to bag a peak that they "need". I've only hiked wildcat once for turns/peak bagging and tho I didn't pay, I did ask a ski patroller, who gave me the green light..

 

[MichaelJ]

Don't get me wrong - I have always complained about "returning to Wilderness" attitudes. If it's an actual designated trail, then it should be maintained to the trail standards for the area that it's in. That doesn't mean, to me, ever leaving trails to sink into the swamp or be overrun by blowdowns or vanish into brush. A designated trail is a designated trail.

What I disagree with is the case put forth that hikers should be able to go up the ski slopes because the other routes aren't as safe in the winter. We're talking forest and mountains here. Nobody is restricting anyone's recreation abilities. If you have the skills and equipment necessary for the terrain you're good to go. Personally I've gone up to A from Carter Notch numerous times in various winter conditions and never had a problem. I've needed just snowshoes in deep, soft snow, and I've needed crampons with ice axe firmly in hand and great caution in every step.

There have clearly been problems mounting in the past, such as sledding and postholing, so access is changing as a result. And I think "because the other routes are harder" is a bogus argument.

 

[skiguy]

And I think "because the other routes are harder" is a bogus argument.

I agree. White Mountain National Forest...."Land of many uses". Something for everyone but not everything.

 

[RoySwkr]

I don't consider myself a free-loader because after I earn some turns I then take chair laps..

I'm sure the ski areas don't consider anyone a free-loader who buys a lift ticket or season pass, although the ski area may have the same safety issue with anyone who is out before or after operating hours

most of my "free-loading" happends in the "real bc", foot hills of maine and the prezzis

I don't generally consider it free-loading to use something free that's always free, although I might make an exception for someone taking advantage of others by postholing up snowshoe tracks then ruining them worse by sliding down them

 

[natron]

hey Roy, my previous statement was written mainly out of defending my true recreational love, earning turns.. as far as postholing? never acceptable! On low angle terrain aka hiking trails or ski trails, I always throw my denali's on over my snowboard boots and when I get into high angle terrain, aka steep snowfields, gullys/slides/chutes I throw on my 12 pt. pons over my snowboard boots.. anyways I'm surprised that anyone would want to hike a ski trail, if they didn't plan on skiing/riding down, I agree with Michael J. and skiguy's comments above as well.. o.k. rant over..

 

[Ed'n Lauky]

As has been previously mentioned, people sometimes hike the Wildcat ski trail because it is more direct and safer than the other options. It's definitely not something I would want to do very often but as a once a winter diversion I have found it fun going up and down the slopes and talking with the skiers who would pause a moment to pet Lauky. We've never had an 'incident' not even a close call when going that way. As seeing a hiker with a dog is not something one sees often on the slopes, the skiers seemed to enjoy it also. Once back at the bottom I've also had nice conversations with folks who had seen us on the slopes and wanted to know how long it took etc. Did I mention that in the winter the views are exceptional especially when going down Wildcat?

 

[bikehikeskifish]

There are a plethora of reasons while people want to use the ski trail (wanting does not imply a need or a right.) Sure, there are longer, more challenging, and possibly more dangerous ways up, and I (personally) am fine with that. At least some part of the "uproar" is that Wildcat, under previous ownership, was a hard-core skier's mountain, primarily for NH residents, and embellished somewhat the state motto (Live Free or Die). The new, out-of-state owners have taken away something traditionally enjoyed by many, and that makes people unhappy.

I have always said I don't care specifically if they disallow hiking on Polecat - I want a policy that's legal, consistent, and enforced, so that people know what to expect. Then again, my biggest peeve is when someone wastes my time.

Tim

 

[--M.]

Unfortunate sledding at Wildcat Mountain

Sadly, it seems a new datapoint has been added. We grieve for the lost.

"
Mass. teen dead after nighttime sledding trip

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ne...edding-trip/ZCRdALJbtW8mrFYIXgXlcL/story.html

PINKHAM NOTCH, N.H. (AP) — New Hampshire officials say an 18-year-old Massachusetts man has died after he and friends went on a midnight sledding excursion at Wildcat Mountain ski area.
...
Fish and Game officials stress that Wildcat was closed at the time the trio hiked to the summit, and that sledding is not allowed on ski trails even when the mountain is operating.
"

 

[Raven]

Sadly, it seems a new datapoint has been added. We grieve for the lost.

"
Mass. teen dead after nighttime sledding trip

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ne...edding-trip/ZCRdALJbtW8mrFYIXgXlcL/story.html

PINKHAM NOTCH, N.H. (AP) — New Hampshire officials say an 18-year-old Massachusetts man has died after he and friends went on a midnight sledding excursion at Wildcat Mountain ski area.
...
Fish and Game officials stress that Wildcat was closed at the time the trio hiked to the summit, and that sledding is not allowed on ski trails even when the mountain is operating.
"

That is so sad. Peace for him, his friends, and family.

 

[RoySwkr]

Anybody know if any ski area offers daytime sledding on regular ski trails (with ticket purchase), or is that why they felt the need to sneak up?

 

[MichaelJ]

While I don't know of any ski area that allows sledding (as opposed to controlled tubing in dedicated runs), I'd guess they snuck up at night because of the full moon.

 

[peakbagger]

Sledding was mentioned at the original meeting. It is forbidden while the ski area is in operation for the season. Basically once the ski area starts to groom the trails until the point when they stop, there is no sledding allowed (even during nighttime hours).

 

[rocket21]

The following USFS endorsed rules were violated:
- Sledding on the ski area
- Accessing the ski area without a valid ticket
- Accessing the ski area while closed.

More and more ski areas in New England specifically prohibit sledding due to incidents like this one. Incidents like this are part of the reason no one is allowed to snowshoe on Wildcat ski trails during the ski season when the lifts aren't spinning.

 

[SherpaTom]

This accident with the teen is certainly a sad story and I grieve for the parents & friends.

It will be interesting to see how this accident impacts the hiking community for those that want to hike down Polecat trail. Having said that, has anyone done this trip this winter yet (or since Wilcat has opened)? My plan is to do this in mid-Feb. I know there was some discussion earlier on purchasing trail tickets online rather than the day of...is this still an option.

Thanks

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Anyone been up the $10 route yet? What time were you able to purchase your ticket? Nothing terribly helpful on the web site, except they don't open until 9am... and the paragraph is identical to last year, no mention of paying to come down.

Tim

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I called. 8am on weekends is as early as you can go up. The woman on the phone does not believe there is any way to advance purchase online...

Tim

 

[PamW]

When we called in December they said go ahead and head up and pay later. That was before the sledding accident though. In the end it didn't matter. Our 7 am start morphed into 8:15. We paid for our tickets and went up. No one seemed to notice one way or the other, but it felt interesting to have them. We definitely were more confident using the trail is a way that made sense to us-- i.e. not hiking on the edge of the edge. We paid our money after all!

 

[sdways01]

I called. 8am on weekends is as early as you can go up. The woman on the phone does not believe there is any way to advance purchase online...

Tim

Did you by any chance ask if you can purchase ahead of time in person? Purchase tonight a ticket for tomorrow, or do they not do that for any pass?

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Just spoke to someone there because I wanted to know where to park and if we could get passes if parked at the C lot.

You can't get a pass at the C lot, need to go to the main ticket windows.
You can park in either lot.
You can only get the ticket that day when they are open, which is 8am on weekends. No advance purchase or online purchase.

Tim

 

[peakbagger]

They had discussed the option of online purchase but they really dont want the hiking business and offering it as an option complicates their website. Odds are someone would try to buy a "cheap" hiking/skinning pass and try to use it for other things.