Winter Baxter Expedition Advice

[bignslow]

Hi Everyone,

We're going with a large group to Baxter in the next few weeks (staying at Roaring Brook, Chimney Pond, and Daicy Pond). We have our pulks all constructed (and mildly tested), so far our biggest lesson learned is that weight in pulks are still weight and you can't go crazy bringing anything you want. All of our reservations and permits are all good to go, so now all that is left to do is go.

I'm looking to see if anyone has any pointers along the lines of "I wish I knew this before our trip" but specifically I have some questions:

• What was it like trying to get fires started in the stoves (did you bring saws/hatchet)? What about kindling/fire starters?
• What did you do for water at the various locations (we were considering bringing some larger pots for melting snow and boiling water)?
• Is there anything you brought/didn't bring that you regret?
• How challenging was it to pull a pulk up from Roaring Brook to Chimney Pond?
• What weight sleeping bag did you bring (choosing between 15* and -20*)?
• What were your interactions like with the rangers, regarding registering for your climbs (regarding the "class" system)?

I tried to do a search, but I didn't come up with what I was looking for.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[hikerbrian]

Only a partial response here since the only time I did this (2011) we stayed in the lean-to's in a different area. My only advice regards the pulk: don't over-pack it. Take a few items that you would be bringing anyway out of your pack, and put them in the pulk. On the way in, if there is any substantial uphill, I'd recommend putting bulky but light items in the pulk: sleeping bags, tents. For downhill, you really can get a lot in, and if you attach a loop of cord to the back of the sled, a buddy can be the brakes (using some kind of rigid poll only partially solves the heal-hitting problem, in my experience). Since we were staying in lean-to's, we all brought the warmest sleeping bags we owned (-20 to -40).

 

[bignslow]

Only a partial response here since the only time I did this (2011) we stayed in the lean-to's in a different area. My only advice regards the pulk: don't over-pack it. Take a few items that you would be bringing anyway out of your pack, and put them in the pulk. On the way in, if there is any substantial uphill, I'd recommend putting bulky but light items in the pulk: sleeping bags, tents. For downhill, you really can get a lot in, and if you attach a loop of cord to the back of the sled, a buddy can be the brakes (using some kind of rigid poll only partially solves the heal-hitting problem, in my experience). Since we were staying in lean-to's, we all brought the warmest sleeping bags we owned (-20 to -40).

So you mostly carried everything in your backpack with the exception of a few things in the pulk on the way in?

 

[hikerbrian]

Yep, that's correct. We also only brought 2 sleds for our group of 8. I would have preferred 1 sled per 2 people, in which case we could have put more in, but whatever you decide, if it's big and ungainly and wants to tip over, the pulk will make you sad.

 

[Tom_Murphy]

Pulk - lately I have packed two backpacks with an ~ 33% to 67% weight ratio between them

I swap out to the heavier pack when it gets steep. I definately find going uphill is alot easier with the majority of the weight on my shoulders.

 

[mirabela]

^^ that's a pretty good idea. I just try to follow the basic principle that you don't fill both the pulk and the pack; when things are steeper and harder, you have more on your back, and when it's mellower you put more in the pulk.

On anything below around 600 feet per mile, I'd still rather pull weight than carry it, but steeper than that I'm happier with a lighter sled.

As for your other questions -- you're unlikely to regret bringing a big pot, and I'd go with the warmer sleeping bag, and two ground pads. Oh, and take the time to tarp your load well and lash it tightly. A tipped-over pulk is one thing; a yard-saled pulk is another.

 

[procook131]

Hi Everyone,

We're going with a large group to Baxter in the next few weeks (staying at Roaring Brook, Chimney Pond, and Daicy Pond). We have our pulks all constructed (and mildly tested), so far our biggest lesson learned is that weight in pulks are still weight and you can't go crazy bringing anything you want. All of our reservations and permits are all good to go, so now all that is left to do is go.

I'm looking to see if anyone has any pointers along the lines of "I wish I knew this before our trip" but specifically I have some questions:

• What was it like trying to get fires started in the stoves (did you bring saws/hatchet)? What about kindling/fire starters?
  At Daicey for three nights, we only needed to start three times (the first night and when we got back from the two hikes; embers were almost enough to get it going on their own). Firewood was in a large shed with an axe out there for shaving kindling. We kept the cabin stocked with wood; fire started really easy with small piece of fire starter. Did not even use one whole piece the time we were there, and left the rest for the next camper.
  http://www.amazon.com/Duraflame-quick-start-6oz-Firelighters/dp/B009HAOUO6
  
  
• What did you do for water at the various locations (we were considering bringing some larger pots for melting snow and boiling water)?
  We had two pots, and there was a large plastic bowl and pitcher in the cabin at Daicey. We used the bowl to collect snow, were constantly melting snow in the pots on top of the woodstove (to save stove fuel) and then filtered through a bandana into the pitcher to use as needed. We collected snow from the lake, and there was still a good amount of pine needles in it. Made the water taste heavily of pine; I flavored mine for drinking with lightly brewed tea or Gatorade. I would consider bringing your own something for collecting snow; the bowl was indispensible but there was only one in the four open cabins and we were the only group in there at the time.
• Is there anything you brought/didn't bring that you regret?
  The snow collecting device for melting water....we got lucky on that one. Joe had a thermometer which we kept outside at night which helped dictate clothing choices each day. We brought it inside too and were happy to see that we got the cabin to a toasty 60 degrees!
• How challenging was it to pull a pulk up from Roaring Brook to Chimney Pond?
  N/A
• What weight sleeping bag did you bring (choosing between 15* and -20*)?
  I had a 25 and JoeCedar had a 20. The fire would require stoking a few times a night, and Iwas fine sleeping in long johns.
• What were your interactions like with the rangers, regarding registering for your climbs (regarding the "class" system)?

Short, but very professional. We saw them on our way in on Saturday afternoon, and very early (6 a.m.) on Sunday morning. After that, not only did we not see them again, we never saw another soul the next three days.
I tried to do a search, but I didn't come up with what I was looking for.

Thanks,

Mike

Here is a my trip report too FWIW. Feel free to give me a call anytime if you want to hear more about it!

http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?47587-Baxter-State-Park-1-5-1-8-13

 

[Jay H]

Hi Mike, I typically would reuse my daypack (since you're going to need it anyway) to carry things you need for the day, (water, food, etc) since it's a lot easier to grab stuff there rather than to disconnect your harness and rummage through the pulk (especially if you use a tarp rather than drybags or some other method)... You can stick heavier stuff in there if you wish. The one pull we did in BSP was fairly flat so it was easy to pull it to our basecamp.

Garbage bags were used on Mt Rainier to get water and we had a lot of stoves going to make water...

Jay

 

[MadRiver]

I’ve never been to Baxter in winter, yet I am very familiar with pulling a pulk filled with supplies over uneven terrain. Keep you center of gravity as low as possible in the pulk to avoid tipping it over. If you are breaking trail and pulling the pulk try to keep your stance as wide as possible so the pulk doesn’t ride up on the sides of the trail and tip over. I also use a large duffle bag to keep all my supplies intact and then use bungee cords to secure it to the pulk. Have fun, I hope to do Baxter next winter.

 

[bignslow]

Yep, that's correct. We also only brought 2 sleds for our group of 8. I would have preferred 1 sled per 2 people, in which case we could have put more in, but whatever you decide, if it's big and ungainly and wants to tip over, the pulk will make you sad.

Pulk - lately I have packed two backpacks with an ~ 33% to 67% weight ratio between them

I swap out to the heavier pack when it gets steep. I definately find going uphill is alot easier with the majority of the weight on my shoulders.

I like this idea (similar to the one above). I custom sewed a big duffel bag out of an old tent fly for the pulk (rather than the tarp solution), so I should be able to just throw one of my other backpacks in there.

^^ that's a pretty good idea. I just try to follow the basic principle that you don't fill both the pulk and the pack; when things are steeper and harder, you have more on your back, and when it's mellower you put more in the pulk.

On anything below around 600 feet per mile, I'd still rather pull weight than carry it, but steeper than that I'm happier with a lighter sled.

As for your other questions -- you're unlikely to regret bringing a big pot, and I'd go with the warmer sleeping bag, and two ground pads. Oh, and take the time to tarp your load well and lash it tightly. A tipped-over pulk is one thing; a yard-saled pulk is another.

Thanks for the feedback regarding the pot and sleeping bags.

Here is a my trip report too FWIW. Feel free to give me a call anytime if you want to hear more about it!

http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?47587-Baxter-State-Park-1-5-1-8-13

Will do, sorry I missed your call earlier, I was in the middle of a meeting.

Hi Mike, I typically would reuse my daypack (since you're going to need it anyway) to carry things you need for the day, (water, food, etc) since it's a lot easier to grab stuff there rather than to disconnect your harness and rummage through the pulk (especially if you use a tarp rather than drybags or some other method)... You can stick heavier stuff in there if you wish. The one pull we did in BSP was fairly flat so it was easy to pull it to our basecamp.

Garbage bags were used on Mt Rainier to get water and we had a lot of stoves going to make water...

Jay

I'm hoping we can use the wood stove so we don't have to go crazy with fuel (but on the other hand I'm certainly not being conservative in the amount of fuel I'm bringing)

I’ve never been to Baxter in winter, yet I am very familiar with pulling a pulk filled with supplies over uneven terrain. Keep you center of gravity as low as possible in the pulk to avoid tipping it over. If you are breaking trail and pulling the pulk try to keep your stance as wide as possible so the pulk doesn’t ride up on the sides of the trail and tip over. I also use a large duffle bag to keep all my supplies intact and then use bungee cords to secure it to the pulk. Have fun, I hope to do Baxter next winter.

Good call, I hope the one I sewed does the job.

 

[Maineman]

Pro tip - the bunkhouse gets HOT unless you are on the bottom bunks so with our group it's usually an all out sprint to claim the bottom bunks, unless you are a cold sleeper/lousy fire tender a light summer bag is more than adequate.

+1 on keeping most of your weight in the pack for the ascent and keeping the load low - I personally find the duffels to be too top heavy, I prefer my gear in a couple smaller stuff sacks, wrapped in a trash bag.

You are in for a wonderful time!

I have a video of a trip from Abol to Mattagammon last winter here:

http://youtu.be/3bsQuKC7xGQ

http://youtu.be/3bsQuKC7xGQ

 

[mirabela]

^^ whoops, ignore my comments about the warm bag, etc. -- I did not grasp that you would be staying indoors.

 

[Bob]

Use a large dry bag to store water and use a water filter inside cabin.
(not my idea but figured I'd share it)

Just don't drop the water filter and break it.

 

[MadRiver]

+1 on keeping most of your weight in the pack for the ascent and keeping the load low - I personally find the duffels to be too top heavy, I prefer my gear in a couple smaller stuff sacks, wrapped in a trash bag.


http://youtu.be/3bsQuKC7xGQ

http://youtu.be/3bsQuKC7xGQ

My duffle is very lightweight and compresses low in the pulk without any problems.

 

[bignslow]

Pro tip - the bunkhouse gets HOT unless you are on the bottom bunks so with our group it's usually an all out sprint to claim the bottom bunks, unless you are a cold sleeper/lousy fire tender a light summer bag is more than adequate.

+1 on keeping most of your weight in the pack for the ascent and keeping the load low - I personally find the duffels to be too top heavy, I prefer my gear in a couple smaller stuff sacks, wrapped in a trash bag.

You are in for a wonderful time!

I have a video of a trip from Abol to Mattagammon last winter here:

http://youtu.be/3bsQuKC7xGQ

http://youtu.be/3bsQuKC7xGQ

Very cool video, thanks for sharing.
I am a cold sleeper, so I'm still trying to decide between the 2 bags...
I've definitely slept in my -20* bag in the JBL before (but no wood stove, and this was back before we insulated the hell out of it and put new windows in, now all you need is a light sleeping bag).

^^ whoops, ignore my comments about the warm bag, etc. -- I did not grasp that you would be staying indoors.

No worries

Use a large dry bag to store water and use a water filter inside cabin.
(not my idea but figured I'd share it)

Just don't drop the water filter and break it.

I like this idea, I don't really want to spend the entire time preparing water.

 

[Woody]

As Bob suggests, use a large dry bag to have water in the hut and filter from the bag. You can get water out of Chimney Pond. Bring plenty of beer in cans.

 

[bignslow]

Another question I just thought of:
How far from the bunkhouse to the outhouse at these locations (Chimney, Roaring, Daicey)?
Trying to figure out what I need to bring in terms of booties.

The biggest challenge I have right now is the amount of food that I'm bringing in. I'm trying to keep my overall trip weight under 50 pounds (all normal winter (plus the weight of the pulk which I'm not adding). I always over-pack for my day hikes (regarding food/snacks), but when I take that over-packing and multiply it by a few days, it really adds up.

 

[DMOutdoors]

Hi Everyone,

I'm looking to see if anyone has any pointers along the lines of "I wish I knew this before our trip" but specifically I have some questions:

• What was it like trying to get fires started in the stoves (did you bring saws/hatchet)? What about kindling/fire starters?
• What did you do for water at the various locations (we were considering bringing some larger pots for melting snow and boiling water)?
• Is there anything you brought/didn't bring that you regret?
• How challenging was it to pull a pulk up from Roaring Brook to Chimney Pond?
• What weight sleeping bag did you bring (choosing between 15* and -20*)?
• What were your interactions like with the rangers, regarding registering for your climbs (regarding the "class" system)?

I tried to do a search, but I didn't come up with what I was looking for.

Thanks,

Mike

Hi Mike,

Good luck and have a blast. Having just returned from 3 nights in Baxter, I will answer based on my trip, which was 4 of us. We were planning to do Roaring, Chimney, Roaring, with a climb, but ended up doing Bear Brook Campground, Roaring, Roaring because of the difficulty we experienced getting to Roaring Brook with heavy pulks.

• We didn't have a fire, but attempted to find the ring by our lean-to, with no success. I like to bring some dryer lint for tinder or the esbit emergency stove could help with getting a fire started if you need prolonged heat/flame. There weren't really a whole lot dead sticks atop the snow near Roaring Brook to gather.
• We melted snow and used Roaring Brook. Of 4 of us, we each brought our own cook sets and one larger pot for the group for snow melting (an older pot from the house that we've brought on other camping trips and doesn't get much home use anymore)
• As for gear, I wish I didn't bring some of the heavy fleece that I didn't need, I didn't need my sled, about half of the food I brought I didn't need, but enjoyed because we hung around and didn't get to hike Katahdin. That is all I can think of right now. I used my multi-tool on the pulk a couple of times, so I would bring some tools to fix equipment and your pulk. I would bring extra para-cord in case any pulk poles break, which happened to one in our party. The trip would have been over had I not had some extra para-cord.
• We had never pulled pulks before, but did very well considering that. We got a late start (11:30am) on the way in, and couldn't make it to Roaring Brook (camped in Bear Brook CG). After we finally got to RB the next afternoon, the others I were with were done with pulling the pulks. We ended up staying at RB the next two nights before heading out.
• I brought a 25 degree synthetic bag. It was the one piece of gear I had not matched up to Baxter's winter list, but I had brought a Coleman fleece sleeping bag that was sort of lightweight and is supposed to add 15 degrees of warmth, and I never even had to use it. The temperatures were fairly mild.
• As for our ranger interactions, we saw one ranger over the first two days. Once on the way in and once at night, both of these times the guy was nice as could be. The first night, we had set up tents right outside one of the pavillions in Bear Brook CG. We told him of our late start coming in, and had no problem with what we were doing - made sure we had enough to stay warm. He even said if there were lean-tos at Roaring Brook that were available, we'd have no problem staying there the next two nights, even though we were supposed to go to Chimney Pond lean-tos. On Sunday night, we were checked on by a different ranger who was also nice, and seemed to just want to confirm which party we were in the log-books. It would be my guess by observation that the rangers do at least a check in the morning and a check around 6pm-ish of the sites and parties in the park.
• To answer your recent question about the outhouse, its very close at Roaring Brook to the Bunkhouse and Lean-tos. We used down booties with plastic shopping bags for the quick jaunts to the outhouse.

Enjoy it! I can't wait to go back and get the summit, and feel free to private message me if you have any other questions.

 

[bignslow]

Hi Mike,

Good luck and have a blast. Having just returned from 3 nights in Baxter, I will answer based on my trip, which was 4 of us. We were planning to do Roaring, Chimney, Roaring, with a climb, but ended up doing Bear Brook Campground, Roaring, Roaring because of the difficulty we experienced getting to Roaring Brook with heavy pulks.

Enjoy it! I can't wait to go back and get the summit, and feel free to private message me if you have any other questions.

Great, thanks for the beta, it will be very helpful.

 

[akafuzzjones]

Most of your questions have already been answered. Have made three trips in winter, two this year. Most important piece of advice - be prepared for a summit-less trip. We had great weather last year and got both Baxter and Hamlin in under clear blue skies. On our attempt for Baxter and Hamlin in January we got turned back about 300 feet from the ridge (high winds and limited visibility). We had similar results on our return in February to the west side of the park to try for the Brothers, Fort, and Coe. This time it was deep month-old snow where we were moving at about 0.2 MPH that thwarted our efforts. We turned back from the first peak with about 1/4 mile to go but figured we would return the next day and get all four. Our group of four was down to three (blisters) and then fatigue and knee pain prevented the rest of us from making a serious summit attempt.

Here are the albums from the three trips.

02/12: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150611691484114.409429.773704113&type=1&l=77eb132d54

01/13: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151325628914114.499089.773704113&type=1&l=4e440d6774

02/13: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151438809969114.508557.773704113&type=1&l=04bac7492c

Not sure about Daicy since haven't stayed there. If you are thinking of doing the Brothers, Fort, and Coe definitely consider Marston Trail over OJI. There has been at least one group since we went that got to all four from Marston. Also, not sure about the conditions on the slide - we experienced avalanche type conditions on the way up Marston - they were on the flats but the snow pack was definitely unstable and the slide might not be the best way to go.

Some thoughts about some of your questions...

Water at Roaring Brook can be gotten right from the stream down by the lean toe and at Chimney Pond from the pond. We brought a 20L collapsable water bucket (Sea to Summit) and schlepped the water from the source back to the cabin. Used a regular water filter to "transfer" the water to a 10L dromedary bag (MSR). Cooking water from bucket, drinking water from bag.

I thought pulling the pulk was easy. Contrary to what some others have done I went with an empty pack (just an extra layer, my water, and some snacks) and all of my stuff in the sled both going to Roaring Brook and then up to Chimney Pond. Sledding down from Chimney Pond made the descent a fun trip.

The Rangers are a great resource - they can help you learn from those that have gone before you. You will see them often at Roaring Brook and Chimney Pond but they only drove by the cabin over at Nesowdahunk.

Michael