Winter Baxter Expedition Advice

[bignslow]

Most of your questions have already been answered. Have made three trips in winter, two this year. Most important piece of advice - be prepared for a summit-less trip

Thank you for all the great advice, I really appreciate it.

It's funny, I've only been turned back once during my W46, this winter alone, I've been turned back twice in Maine. I don't think the state wants to give up its peaks too easily.

We are planning on taking the marston trail for North Brother.

 

[DSettahr]

My only advice regards the pulk: don't over-pack it. Take a few items that you would be bringing anyway out of your pack, and put them in the pulk. On the way in, if there is any substantial uphill, I'd recommend putting bulky but light items in the pulk: sleeping bags, tents.

So you mostly carried everything in your backpack with the exception of a few things in the pulk on the way in?

I would agree 100% with this. A big mistake many people make with pulks is that they try to use them as a substitute for a pack. Pulling an over-laden pulk through deep snow is no fun, and you'll actually end up going slower than you would with just a pack, and getting tired more quickly. A pulk should supplement your pack, not replace it.

If I had to make a rough estimate, I'd say that the ideal weight ratio between a pack and a pulk is somewhere around 2:1 (pack to pulk).

 

[bignslow]

I would agree 100% with this. A big mistake many people make with pulks is that they try to use them as a substitute for a pack. Pulling an over-laden pulk through deep snow is no fun, and you'll actually end up going slower than you would with just a pack, and getting tired more quickly. A pulk should supplement your pack, not replace it.

If I had to make a rough estimate, I'd say that the ideal weight ratio between a pack and a pulk is somewhere around 2:1 (pack to pulk).

Do still recommend the same distribution if you're traveling on a well packed trail/road?

 

[akafuzzjones]

Do still recommend the same distribution if you're traveling on a well packed trail/road?

The entire route from the parking lot to the cabin at Chimney Pond is packed down by constant snow mobile traffic - unless there is a blizzard the day or two before there will be no deep snow to contend with.

The entire Tote Road is open to public snowmobiles - the section of road between the Gate and Roaring Brook Road is closed to the public but it is well traveled by the rangers and an outfitter that uses it to bring guest's gear in to one of the other areas of the park. The rangers actually pull a groomer that grades the trail between Roaring Brook and Chimney Pond.

You will likely be pulling the sled on a packed surface 100% of the time. I put all of my stuff in my sled for both the flats and and the climbs and had no problems, but your results might vary.

 

[Bombadil]

We are planning on taking the marston trail for North Brother.

Unless a group goes in the few days before you guys do I'd anticipate the worst case scenario that most people run into--waist+ deep powder heading up North Brother. If you're only going for N Brother then even in those conditions a strong and motivated group of 2 should be able to muscle it out. I was in the group of 3 that got all 4 last week and N Brother was by far the worst, definitely a kick in the pants. But after that if you're going for the other peaks its just a matter of grinding it out. The Tote Rd is a packed highway and Williams Pond Rd may or may not have ski/snowshoe/snowmobile tracks (but even if it doesn't it's only a 3 hour walk with sleds). As with any of the hikes up there it pays to get a super early start and plan on it being a monster day.
Goodluck!
Pat

 

[bignslow]

Bringing this thread back from the dead because I recently realized that I never answered my own questions, so here it goes:

Hi Everyone,

We're going with a large group to Baxter in the next few weeks (staying at Roaring Brook, Chimney Pond, and Daicy Pond). We have our pulks all constructed (and mildly tested), so far our biggest lesson learned is that weight in pulks are still weight and you can't go crazy bringing anything you want. All of our reservations and permits are all good to go, so now all that is left to do is go.

I'm looking to see if anyone has any pointers along the lines of "I wish I knew this before our trip" but specifically I have some questions:

• What was it like trying to get fires started in the stoves (did you bring saws/hatchet)? What about kindling/fire starters?
  [*]Getting the fires started was easy at every cabin (like others have said, they were used before/after us, so there was almost always embers)
• What did you do for water at the various locations (we were considering bringing some larger pots for melting snow and boiling water)?
  [*]We tried melting snow, but for our group it took forever (plus we didn't have much down time). We had tremendous luck with throwing a dry bag into the water (streams/lakes) bringing that back to the cabin, and filtering (Thank you for that suggestion!). One other thing we did, was bring a few 3 liter soda bottles (light weight, and a dollar a piece if you pour the soda out) as water storage devices. This made sure there was enough spare around for drinking/cooking/mornings in addition to all of our nalgenes
• Is there anything you brought/didn't bring that you regret?
  [*]Waaaay too much food and fuel, but we ended up leaving earlier than expected due to an incoming rain storm. Also for the first 2 cabins (roaring/chimney) we brought our -20 sleeping bags, talk about overkill. It was so hot, we went out and bought fleece liners before the 2nd stage of our trip at daicey pond (they were slightly chilly, but way more comfortable). We bought/brought whippets, I actually liked their versatility while climbing the chimney trail. I also purchased a neo-air mattress for weight savings and additional comfort and I was very happy with that purchase.
• How challenging was it to pull a pulk up from Roaring Brook to Chimney Pond?
  [*]I actually had a harder time getting to roaring brook than getting to chimney. We built the fancy fiberglass pole pulks on skipulk.com and then attached them tightly to our backpacks using straps/caribiners. They tracked so well, that the sled actually jumped each step (because of the turning of your hips as you walked). This caused me some discomfort (I also didn't believe the advice about making the pulk light and the pack heavy...). On the climb up to chimney I put most of the weight in my pack, and a lot of volume in the pulk and it was much more enjoyable
• What weight sleeping bag did you bring (choosing between 15* and -20*)?
  [*]Addressed this above, I was paranoid and wanted a warm bag for safety, but the buildings are fairly well insulated, and the stoves really crank out the heat. In most conditions I would say a light sleeping bag would be fine
• What were your interactions like with the rangers, regarding registering for your climbs (regarding the "class" system)?
  [*]I wasn't the group leader, so I didn't have to check in/out with the rangers, but I will say, every one we ran into was very helpful and friendly

We lucked out tremendously with weather (other than a rain storm on our intended Katahdin summit day) so we were able to go straight from Roaring to the Chimney, drop our stuff, and summit that day. In some ways, I found climbing North Brother more difficult than climbing Katahdin despite the fact that we were following a broken path.

Thanks again to everyone for their advice and suggestions.

Also a tremendous thanks to my friends who planned the trip and those who were able to join us as well.

 

[Tom Rankin]

[What were your interactions like with the rangers, regarding registering for your climbs (regarding the "class" system)?]
I wasn't the group leader, so I didn't have to check in/out with the rangers, but I will say, every one we ran into was very helpful and friendly.

Thanks again to everyone for their advice and suggestions. Also a tremendous thanks to my friends who planned the trip and those who were able to join us as well.

Now that I think back, the Rangers never mentioned the class system. They were all very friendly, helpful, and thanked us whenever we relayed conditions to them about the trails, and above tree line. We did stop by a Ranger cabin whenever we passed one, to apprise them of what we were doing, whether starting out or returning. There were no gear searches done, or even a lot of questions asked. I know some people think the BSP Rangers are overbearing, micro-managing, etc. If that is the case, those rangers must have taken the Winter off!

I mostly concur with BNS, the trip went very well. There was always water to draw from a lake or stream. Melting snow takes a lot more time and energy, since snow is essentially much colder than water.

The pulk is the way to go! Sadly, mine died in the service of Balsam Lake Mountain this spring. Too much weight!

Each group should have a large pot for cooking and/or water storage, and the plastic bottles were a great help as well.

Each pair of people had a stove in our group (or maybe even more). This is a little overkill, but it makes it convenient for cooking when you want to. Laurie and I used less than 1 canister of fuel for 6 days.

Definitely don't worry about the temps in the cabins. We had the Roaring Brook cabin up over 80 degrees! After that, we learned to keep the temps more moderate.

 

[Jay H]

Melting snow is multitudes slower than if you can find open water and filtering. Snow is full of air and you need a lot of it to get water for a day's use for a group of people. On rainier, we basically spent like 1/2 our rest day with about 6 stoves melting snow for about 12 of us. In this case, we used garbage bags to gather snow with the group shovel we brought as opposed to a dry bag. We found open water on the bridge to the trail that goes towards S Turner Mtn while staying at Roaring Brook, and then there was a spot at Chimney Pond which was open where we could use my dry bag to get water and then filter back at the cabin.

Jay

 

[DMOutdoors]

Rather than a new thread, this seems to be the best spot for this question. I've done all of the VT & Maine peaks solo this winter, and recently lucked out on Baxter too. I now only need North Brother.

Has anyone camped at the Marston Trail head, (which still requires a reservation) and/or done North Brother in an overnight in winter? ...from Williams Pond Road, of course. I know an overnight is chancy with the weather, but I'm wondering if anyone has any suggested logistics. I don't really have any options to camp 2 nights in a row the rest of this winter. My initial thought is the 9 miles in to the trail head, camp at the trail head, 9 miles out and back to the NB summit only, and then the 9 miles back out to the WPR after the summit. Only uncertainty is choosing the right weekend weather-wise. There appear to be no reservations in the system for Nesowadnehunk for the rest of the winter, so I'm wondering if they would be flexible on my arrival date. Since I've been up there a few times already, I'm aware that the Williams Pond Road is seeing no traffic this winter (compared to last), so I'd be leaving the pulk at home and treating it more like a long hike than an expedition.

Its been tough to keep up on the trip reports, but if you're interested in my Baxter pictures, I've posted my album here.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

 

[Adventurous]

A group of us camped at Slide Dam (near the Marston Trailhead) last March. There is a sheltered picnic table that we enclosed with Tarps, a fire pit which we were told we could use if we could find it, the water source was a very short walk and a there's very large outhouse across the street. It's a short walk to the trailhead but you can also bushwhack straight to the trail from the campsite.

The enclosed picnic area and fire pit

Water source

 

[DMOutdoors]

A group of us camped at Slide Dam (near the Marston Trailhead) last March. There is a sheltered picnic table that we enclosed with Tarps, a fire pit which we were told we could use if we could find it, the water source was a very short walk and a there's very large outhouse across the street. It's a short walk to the trailhead but you can also bushwhack straight to the trail from the campsite.

Nice, thanks for sharing this. I never walked off the road to this picnic spot when I was there last June, so that is cool. I'll likely put my tent right under there.

 

[Cat in January]

Katahdin Photos-this Winter Please and Thank You.

Going up last 5 days of March to stay in the bunkhouse at Chimney Pond and hopefully ski around. I would be ever so thankful for anyone posting here ,or sending on, photos from Katahdin this winter.

 

[Brambor]

pulk perplexes me. Seems that one should be able to carry everything in a pack. On a winter trip that lasts 3 nights versus summer trip that lasts 3 nights your extra weight will come with a couple of pounds for a winter sleeping bag, 2 pounds for winter insulation clothes, 2 pounds for extra fuel for theoretical melting of water ;-)...

If you pack reasonably light in the summer your your pack weight will be 30 lbs or less
For a winter trip I think it's completely reasonable to get by with a 40lb pack.

Is the pulk for the beer ?

 

[Tom_Murphy]

pulk perplexes me. Seems that one should be able to carry everything in a pack. On a winter trip that lasts 3 nights versus summer trip that lasts 3 nights your extra weight will come with a couple of pounds for a winter sleeping bag, 2 pounds for winter insulation clothes, 2 pounds for extra fuel for theoretical melting of water ;-)...

If you pack reasonably light in the summer your your pack weight will be 30 lbs or less. For a winter trip I think it's completely reasonable to get by with a 40lb pack.

Is the pulk for the beer ?

It isn't just weight. The gear volume increases significantly too.

Some comparisons between my late summer / early fall overnight gear and my winter gear. Also almost of my trips are solo, so no shared gear.

- 6x8 silnylon tarp and tyvek ground cloth VS. two person four season tent (extra room is a bit of a luxury)

- quilt VS -20F sleeping bag and liner

- trail runners VS Pac boots with microspikes, snow shoes, crampons

- stoveless or collapsible wood stove VS Svea 123R white gas stove and fuel gas bottle

- single 1.3L Ti pot VS two AL pots with pot holder and lids & pot cozies

- two 1L gatorade bottles VS two nalgenes with insulators and a thermos

- tiny swiss army knife VS leatherman multi tool

- winter clothing adders: camp booties, fleece pants, wool sweater, down parka, balaclava

- winter safety adders - spare head lamp, "extra" food and fuel, spare gloves, spare glove liners, mittens with wp shells, third pair of socks, goggles, misc gear repair items

- winter luxuries - paperback novel, hand crank weather band radio, snow shovel, and a candle lantern

There may be other items too. Those differences are just off the top of my head.

 

[Tom Rankin]

pulk perplexes me. Seems that one should be able to carry everything in a pack. On a winter trip that lasts 3 nights versus summer trip that lasts 3 nights your extra weight will come with a couple of pounds for a winter sleeping bag, 2 pounds for winter insulation clothes, 2 pounds for extra fuel for theoretical melting of water ;-)...

If you pack reasonably light in the summer your your pack weight will be 30 lbs or less
For a winter trip I think it's completely reasonable to get by with a 40lb pack.

Is the pulk for the beer ?

I ended up bringing a total of 50 pounds of gear to BSP last winter. The pulk itself was a small fraction of that and greatly eases the burden of porting that much weight. I think your estimate of weight is low. Crampons, snowshoes, microspikes, sleeping bag, wide range of clothes, stove, etc., adds up to 15 pounds in my estimation. And no I did not bring beer, but I did bring a liter of scotch!

 

[Brambor]

I agree if we are talking about the extra hardware that the weight could increase by more than 10 lbs. I suppose if you plan to do a lot of different activities then the gear necessary increases. So far, I have been able to just carry the pack and stay overnight on weekends without pulk. Even my Baxter trip that had 2 nights (not planned for summit of big K) I was able to avoid pulk.

I spent an overnight with a buddy two weeks ago and (granted he was testing gear) his pulk was so heavy it was no fun. He did learn how to distribute the weight on the pulk better by the end of the weekend and it made a difference.

 

[DSettahr]

So you mostly carried everything in your backpack with the exception of a few things in the pulk on the way in?

Through trial and error, I have found that this is the best use of a pulk- as a supplement to your pack, rather than a replacement. Especially if you're breaking trail through deep, soft snow.

If you're on a groomed trail, however, you can definitely get away with loading as much as possible into the pulk.

EDIT: Just realized this thread was revived and is nearly a year old... but the above is still good advice so I'll leave it.

 

[hikerbrian]

pulk perplexes me. Seems that one should be able to carry everything in a pack. On a winter trip that lasts 3 nights versus summer trip that lasts 3 nights your extra weight will come with a couple of pounds for a winter sleeping bag, 2 pounds for winter insulation clothes, 2 pounds for extra fuel for theoretical melting of water ;-)...

If you pack reasonably light in the summer your your pack weight will be 30 lbs or less
For a winter trip I think it's completely reasonable to get by with a 40lb pack.

Is the pulk for the beer ?

It's not a matter of needing the pulk, it's a matter of using a pulk to make life easier when terrain and conditions allow. I rarely take a pulk since terrain in the Whites is not usually suitable for it, but for BSP (long road walk over groomed, mostly flat terrain to a base camp), it's a pretty easy decision. For a group of two, just putting sleeping bags and the tent on the pulk makes the pack a whole lot easier to handle and pack, especially if, like me, your winter bag is synthetic. You don't need to stuff your pack as tight as you possibly can, and the top of the pack isn't extended way above your head. And I find that weight is almost unnoticed in the pulk.

 

[DSettahr]

A pulk may only mean a difference of 60 pounds on your back instead of 70... but you'd be surprised at how much of a difference that can make.