Winter Camping Revisited

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Rhody Seth said:
I just attempted winter hammock camping for the first time up in the Whites this past Monday. I got a 0 degree underquilt which combined with my 20 degree Kelty was more than enough for the 20 degree temps I encountered. In fact I was quite warm so that bodes well for future colder trips. Too bad my tarp and knot skills are rather dreadful - that's the next thing I need to work on. There was snow late in the night and my tarp wasn't set up correctly to deal with it. However overall I was pleased with my efforts and wish you all luck with your winter camping adventures.
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Interesting!! Good for you.

Did you use a foam pad with the underquilt?

What was the wind situation during the night? Seems like wind chill might be an issue when floating in a hammock in winter.
 
jniehof said:
Realistically, solo winter backpacking is a fool's game. I can squeeze it all in with the 85L, but barely, and I can even manage to get it on my back and walk a little bit. Two people make life a lot better than you'd think; even sharing stove, tent, shovel makes a big difference. I still don't want anything smaller than the 85. Short and skinny people might get away with slightly smaller.
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Overall I'd agree. Soloing in Winter in general is always a bit dicey.

But, I have pulled a sled on many winter solos and find it much easier than humping a heavy pack. 25 pounds on a sled is really negligible on all but the steepest hauls. Add to that 15-20 on your back and you have a manageable dispersed load.

I shorten the adjustable metal arms of my sled so that the sled just clears the back of my snowshoes. This also makes the sled much more maneuverable in tight squeezes along the trail. I pulled this rig up Rocky Branch for two nights of camping with no issues a few years ago and also up to the Harvard Cabin in Huntington Ravine several times.

This season I'd like to hook the sled up to a fat bike and roll in Baxter. Imagine making Roaring Brook in two hours instead of eight!
 
ChrisB said:
What was the wind situation during the night? Seems like wind chill might be an issue when floating in a hammock in winter.
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In winter many hammock campers will deploy some type of over cover like a sock or topcover/underquilt protector combo. It keeps the wind off but can also turn the inside into a rain forest, in that case a breeze is nice to help vent the sock. A frost bib is another solution to help deal with moisture inside.
 
ChrisB said:
Interesting!! Good for you.

Did you use a foam pad with the underquilt?

What was the wind situation during the night? Seems like wind chill might be an issue when floating in a hammock in winter.
Click to expand...

Before I got the underquilt I just used a sleeping bag in the hammock with an inflated pad. I found that the pad would slip around underneath the bag and inevitably it would end up on the side of me. So I took to inserting it into the sleeping bag after inflated. This kept it secure but it made the sleeping bag much tighter and I was sleeping on plastic. I was never satisfied with the setup.

I ditched the pad upon getting the underquilt and it is sooo much better. I've only slept twice with the UQ/bag combo but it is by far the most comfortable sleep I've had in all my tent/hammock attempts. My body can contour to the hammock and it is just wonderful. In terms of wind, provided that it is cinched up correctly the UQ will provide great wind protection. The issue becomes if it is not snug against the bottom of the hammock - in that case wind can sneak in between the UQ and hammock and steal your heat. But it wasn't an issue for me on the last trip.

But I did have to deal with the wind when it came to snow and that's because I did a crap job of setting up my tarp. It was way too open. So the wind started blowing snow into the hammock at 3 AM. I need to really research and practice tarp techniques to make it more secure. It's definitely the weakest part of my setup. Had I had a much more closed tarp setup I would have been in great shape. It would have been smart of me to just suck it up, get up and fiddle with the tarp after the snow began but I didn't have it in me. I usually get up at 4:30-5:00 AM so I ended up packing up at 4 AM and then retreating to the car.

I also think I'm going to get an underquilt protector to ensure it doesn't get wet. I didn't have an issue on this trip but I can definitely see things going wrong in the future. I shot a video from this trip that I'm editing. Once done I'll share so everyone can point and laugh. :p
 
DayTrip said:
So I'm back on the "Winter camping" bandwagon after my non-start a few years ago. Still craving that Winter, near tree line experience and a dramatic sunrise/sunset.
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I'll bet Mount Hight would be a good destination.
 
jfb said:
I'll bet Mount Hight would be a good destination.
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Literally at the top of my list. :) I have some other less ambitious spots in mind and I'll need a "shake down" night or two but that is exactly the type of bucket list hike I'm shooting for. Hopefully some day....
 
jfb said:
I'll bet Mount Hight would be a good destination.
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Hight as a backpacking destination, IMO that is a yes and no. The Presi's would block a bunch of the color of the low sky, however, the mountains would be nice. Camping is an issue though, Hight is windblown enough that you won't have the snowpack for camping in top and the trail between it and C-Dome is through a dense fir forest with unlikely no spot to camp. (It will hold the necessary drifts.) Descending Hight directly is one of the steeper short pitches, if you are used to headlamp and low light descents not an issue, it shouldn't be your first near dark descent. No camping is allowed in the Zeta Pass area so you may have to travel a bit. (If you really wanted it, I'd do some recon to see if there is a spot somewhere between C-Dome and Hight you could get a tent in. (C-Dome may actually hold enough snow on it's summit 0 is camping allowed?)

Last march just before CT shutdown, I did get great sunset shots from the Route 302 Mt. Washington Scenic View in Intervale. I'd offer that the sunset view from Kearsarge North's tower would be great. I was there also during midday. Here is a Kearsarge North pic and a sunset from the road pic.20200321_111148.jpg20200320_190711.jpg
 
Mike P. said:
Hight as a backpacking destination, IMO that is a yes and no. The Presi's would block a bunch of the color of the low sky, however, the mountains would be nice. Camping is an issue though, Hight is windblown enough that you won't have the snowpack for camping in top and the trail between it and C-Dome is through a dense fir forest with unlikely no spot to camp. (It will hold the necessary drifts.) Descending Hight directly is one of the steeper short pitches, if you are used to headlamp and low light descents not an issue, it shouldn't be your first near dark descent. No camping is allowed in the Zeta Pass area so you may have to travel a bit. (If you really wanted it, I'd do some recon to see if there is a spot somewhere between C-Dome and Hight you could get a tent in. (C-Dome may actually hold enough snow on it's summit 0 is camping allowed?)

Last march just before CT shutdown, I did get great sunset shots from the Route 302 Mt. Washington Scenic View in Intervale. I'd offer that the sunset view from Kearsarge North's tower would be great. I was there also during midday. Here is a Kearsarge North pic and a sunset from the road pic.View attachment 6574View attachment 6575
Click to expand...

The connector spur leaving South of the summit toward Carter Dome has plenty of flattish, sheltered areas just off the summit and shortly down into the trees are numerous established camp sites. The grades going up C-M and backtracking North on the spur are pretty comfortable, which is likely the approach I'd take. And sunrise would be completely obstructed at just about any time of year. It would definitely be a great spot.
 
There is a nice bootleg site just in the trees south of Mt Hight. Plenty of room for one tent.
 
Couple of thoughts to add to the other good info here:
1. I have an Osprey Aether 85L. It's gigantic, not too heavy (4.5 lbs?), but I find it pretty uncomfortable and sort of hate it. If all my gear wasn't uber-cheapskate stuff, I think a 70L would probably be ok. Maybe even smaller if you're rich. Reasonable cost, reasonable size/weight, works in harsh conditions. Pick any two.
2. Sleeping bag: North Face Dark Star, rated -40, synthetic. Got it for $225 or something about 8 yrs ago; I was poor and knew it would work for both Baxter and Denali, which were both on my short list at the time. I've never been cold in this sleeping bag, and I hate this sleeping bag. I really can't wait to replace it. Stuffing it into the absolute largest compression sack I've ever been able to find is an epic workout every morning. Then I sit on it and rail on the straps to compress it with all my strength. Then I take the roughly washing-machine-size (and weight) package and shove it into my gigantic pack, and it consumes most of the space therein. There is no exaggeration here. My recommendation: get a down bag from a reputable company rated to -20 F. Expect to pay $700-$900. Start making peace with that expense now. Or go quilt or whatever, which I know nothing about.
3. I have a Thermarest Z-lite Sol CCF pad, and on top of that I use an inflatable (I really love my Sea to Summit dual chamber Comfort Plus - on the heavy side, but I sleep GREAT). The combo is very warm.
4. My tent is a Nemo Tenshi, I've had it for a couple years and love it. 5.5 lbs, bomber, and has a vestibule one can cook in comfortably. This is my one expensive piece of backpacking gear. I also want to get something floorless for my below-treeline trips but haven't pulled that trigger yet.
5. I use a MSR Reactor and love it. Have we had an epic canister-vs-liquid fuel battle yet this year? :)

Overnight solo weight is probably 45 lbs. With a partner, more like 35. If it's a presi-traverse backpack, probably more like 50 (even with a partner - crampons/axe, more food, more fuel). In my opinion/experience, it's very hard to get below 35 lbs for a solo overnighter planned near 4k' elevation. Assuming you want to keep a reasonable safety margin, you need to be either very experienced with gear that is absolutely dialed (in which case you wouldn't be asking us for advice), or you need to have a considerable cash flow available to blow on hiking. I personally don't like being cold, and I'm basically a scaredy cat, and I have kids with 529s to fund. So my pack weight is probably on the high side. I think I could reasonably decrease the weight of my down coat (an old 725 FP EMS belay parka), sleeping bag, pack, and some of my clothing - could probably lose 5 lbs, but that would cost in the range of $3k. It's hard to justify that cost when my stuff 'works.'
 
hikerbrian said:
Couple of thoughts to add to the other good info here:
1. I have an Osprey Aether 85L. It's gigantic, not too heavy (4.5 lbs?), but I find it pretty uncomfortable and sort of hate it. If all my gear wasn't uber-cheapskate stuff, I think a 70L would probably be ok. Maybe even smaller if you're rich. Reasonable cost, reasonable size/weight, works in harsh conditions. Pick any two.
2. Sleeping bag: North Face Dark Star, rated -40, synthetic. Got it for $225 or something about 8 yrs ago; I was poor and knew it would work for both Baxter and Denali, which were both on my short list at the time. I've never been cold in this sleeping bag, and I hate this sleeping bag. I really can't wait to replace it. Stuffing it into the absolute largest compression sack I've ever been able to find is an epic workout every morning. Then I sit on it and rail on the straps to compress it with all my strength. Then I take the roughly washing-machine-size (and weight) package and shove it into my gigantic pack, and it consumes most of the space therein. There is no exaggeration here. My recommendation: get a down bag from a reputable company rated to -20 F. Expect to pay $700-$900. Start making peace with that expense now. Or go quilt or whatever, which I know nothing about.
3. I have a Thermarest Z-lite Sol CCF pad, and on top of that I use an inflatable (I really love my Sea to Summit dual chamber Comfort Plus - on the heavy side, but I sleep GREAT). The combo is very warm.
4. My tent is a Nemo Tenshi, I've had it for a couple years and love it. 5.5 lbs, bomber, and has a vestibule one can cook in comfortably. This is my one expensive piece of backpacking gear. I also want to get something floorless for my below-treeline trips but haven't pulled that trigger yet.
5. I use a MSR Reactor and love it. Have we had an epic canister-vs-liquid fuel battle yet this year? :)

Overnight solo weight is probably 45 lbs. With a partner, more like 35. If it's a presi-traverse backpack, probably more like 50 (even with a partner - crampons/axe, more food, more fuel). In my opinion/experience, it's very hard to get below 35 lbs for a solo overnighter planned near 4k' elevation. Assuming you want to keep a reasonable safety margin, you need to be either very experienced with gear that is absolutely dialed (in which case you wouldn't be asking us for advice), or you need to have a considerable cash flow available to blow on hiking. I personally don't like being cold, and I'm basically a scaredy cat, and I have kids with 529s to fund. So my pack weight is probably on the high side. I think I could reasonably decrease the weight of my down coat (an old 725 FP EMS belay parka), sleeping bag, pack, and some of my clothing - could probably lose 5 lbs, but that would cost in the range of $3k. It's hard to justify that cost when my stuff 'works.'
Click to expand...

This is funny. For many years, I had a minus 30 synthetic bag. I bought it used at IME. Some dude bought it there, climbed Denali with it, then put it up for sale. I paid about 200 bucks and it was like carrying a medium size pig around with you. BUT, I never had one cold night in that bag. One night it got to 35 below, I could feel the cold coming through the stitching holes, but I stayed warm mostly.;)
 
Coming late to this, but I have an 85l and everything goes in it but snowshoes.

I use a foam pad under an insulated inflatable. I find that I need both to insulate against the snow.

I have a -20 Wraith (Black Diamond, I think), and I wouldn't sleep in anything rated less than that. I usually have down booties on my feet, a pair of heavy long johns, an a Patagonia R1 hoodie on, with the my down jacket tucked around the neck of the bag--I sleep on my side, and that usually means the neck of the bag is twisted in some funky way.

As Jon said, I would never camp out alone. Besides the danger, it helps to divide up the group gear.

Brian
 
hikerbrian said:
Couple of thoughts to add to the other good info here:
1. I have an Osprey Aether 85L. It's gigantic, not too heavy (4.5 lbs?), but I find it pretty uncomfortable and sort of hate it. If all my gear wasn't uber-cheapskate stuff, I think a 70L would probably be ok. Maybe even smaller if you're rich. Reasonable cost, reasonable size/weight, works in harsh conditions. Pick any two.
2. Sleeping bag: North Face Dark Star, rated -40, synthetic. Got it for $225 or something about 8 yrs ago; I was poor and knew it would work for both Baxter and Denali, which were both on my short list at the time. I've never been cold in this sleeping bag, and I hate this sleeping bag. I really can't wait to replace it. Stuffing it into the absolute largest compression sack I've ever been able to find is an epic workout every morning. Then I sit on it and rail on the straps to compress it with all my strength. Then I take the roughly washing-machine-size (and weight) package and shove it into my gigantic pack, and it consumes most of the space therein. There is no exaggeration here. My recommendation: get a down bag from a reputable company rated to -20 F. Expect to pay $700-$900. Start making peace with that expense now. Or go quilt or whatever, which I know nothing about.
3. I have a Thermarest Z-lite Sol CCF pad, and on top of that I use an inflatable (I really love my Sea to Summit dual chamber Comfort Plus - on the heavy side, but I sleep GREAT). The combo is very warm.
4. My tent is a Nemo Tenshi, I've had it for a couple years and love it. 5.5 lbs, bomber, and has a vestibule one can cook in comfortably. This is my one expensive piece of backpacking gear. I also want to get something floorless for my below-treeline trips but haven't pulled that trigger yet.
5. I use a MSR Reactor and love it. Have we had an epic canister-vs-liquid fuel battle yet this year? :)

Overnight solo weight is probably 45 lbs. With a partner, more like 35. If it's a presi-traverse backpack, probably more like 50 (even with a partner - crampons/axe, more food, more fuel). In my opinion/experience, it's very hard to get below 35 lbs for a solo overnighter planned near 4k' elevation. Assuming you want to keep a reasonable safety margin, you need to be either very experienced with gear that is absolutely dialed (in which case you wouldn't be asking us for advice), or you need to have a considerable cash flow available to blow on hiking. I personally don't like being cold, and I'm basically a scaredy cat, and I have kids with 529s to fund. So my pack weight is probably on the high side. I think I could reasonably decrease the weight of my down coat (an old 725 FP EMS belay parka), sleeping bag, pack, and some of my clothing - could probably lose 5 lbs, but that would cost in the range of $3k. It's hard to justify that cost when my stuff 'works.'
Click to expand...

I think the epic canister vs liquid fuel happened with my original Winter hiking post last year. I recall getting A LOT of advice on a stove in that post. :)

Thanks for the detailed answer as usual. For me, I'm not overly concerned about the weight as much as the volume of all the stuff, especially with the additional Winter stuff like crampons, a larger stove and pot, the sleeping bag, etc. I like to camp as close to tree line as possible and often carry a bear vault, 3-4L of water because there are no sources up high, and I also have some stuff in need of upgrade from a weight point of view (which for Summer I have largely done). I took your advice from a prior post on that 2-chamber Sea-To-Summit pad and I also like it quite a bit despite the weight penalty, but at an R value of only 4 is sub-par for Winter use from everything I've read. The good nights sleep is worth the extra weight to me at this point too. All in all I schlep around a 40lb pack probably more often than I should. Been working on that. My overnights are generally not as ambitious as my day hikes so the weight is manageable.

The sleeping bag and/or quilt really feels like the major hurdle. Like you, I have a synthetic bag (-30 deg F) and it is just massive. If I could rewind the clock I would have just pulled the trigger on a down bag versus trying to save money. I knew it would be bigger but I never imagined it would be that huge. I do like JoshandBarons quilt suggestion. Definitely less weight and space. I guess I'm still a bit hesistant about the open bottom and making another $$$ mistake trying to save money versus the inevitable. I've never used a quilt before.
 
B the Hiker said:
Coming late to this, but I have an 85l and everything goes in it but snowshoes.

I use a foam pad under an insulated inflatable. I find that I need both to insulate against the snow.

I have a -20 Wraith (Black Diamond, I think), and I wouldn't sleep in anything rated less than that. I usually have down booties on my feet, a pair of heavy long johns, an a Patagonia R1 hoodie on, with the my down jacket tucked around the neck of the bag--I sleep on my side, and that usually means the neck of the bag is twisted in some funky way.

As Jon said, I would never camp out alone. Besides the danger, it helps to divide up the group gear.

Brian
Click to expand...

I'm a side sleeper too and have learned the "stuff insulation around your neck" trick too. Does work pretty well. It's sounding like an 80L or so pack would be the proper volume if I make that upgrade.
 
DayTrip said:
I do like JoshandBarons quilt suggestion. Definitely less weight and space. I guess I'm still a bit hesistant about the open bottom and making another $$$ mistake trying to save money versus the inevitable. I've never used a quilt before.
Click to expand...

I think if I camped exclusively on the ground in winter I would go with a bag. I guess i want to emphasize that I use a quilt because it's what I had for hammocking and can't justify the cost of buying a bag when the quilt solution hasn't failed me yet. I don't think winter is the best place to figure out if it will work for you. On the bright side, if you buy a cold weather quilt this year and it doesn't work you will be able to resell it next winter for close to what you paid to some impatient fellow who can't wait 8-10 weeks.
 
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