Winter camping with a dog?

[hikingfish]

Howdy all, long time no post!
Although I don't currently own a dog, I would fancy getting one in a couple of years, either a Husky or Malamute (winter friendly breeds would be a must...plus, they're so cute!!). I was wondering if there was any special consideration to take if I'd take the doggy winter camping (tent camping). My tent is an Andromeda from OR (with huge vestibule), so he could sleep in there (I'd leave the door open for him). I was wondering if one had to bring a sleeping pad so he would freeze.

I've seen a bunch of sledding dogs that didn't even seem to be cold in -20C weather with howling winds, but I don't know that much about dogs to know for sure if extra precautions would be needed.

Cheers!

Fish

 

[griffin]

I've seen a bunch of sledding dogs that didn't even seem to be cold in -20C weather with howling winds, but I don't know that much about dogs to know for sure if extra precautions would be needed.

Do keep in mind that those dogs are out all the time, so they're used to those conditions.

I don't winter camp, but even summer I bring a small pad for the pup to sleep on (although he often winds up curled up next to my head, anyway). I don't think you need to leave the tent door open, in fact it might be better to make sure s/he's safe inside.

In addition, I would think booties (again, unless your dog us used to regular runs in the snow, his or her feet may need extra protection), and extra food to kept the furry furnace going.

As always, do make sure the dog you pick fits your life, and not just your hiking life. Huskies and Mals were bred to run all day, for example, so if your non-hiking life does not allow you to provide a dog with a TON of exercise, you might look at other breeds.

 

[Maddy]

.....and they LOVE to run away. Not because they don't like their home, but because they are vagabonds. Running for them is a way of life.
I once invited one into my motel room up at Killington. He came to the door about 11 pm so I had him come in and thought I would find his owners in the am. On about 2am, he made it very clear that he wanted out. I opened the door and watched. He was a dog with a mission. He knew exactly where he was going.
I had a friend whose malamute constantly escaped to go kill the neighbors chickens. That caused quite a stir in town.
I can recall turning in a husky pup who ran off at 6 mo of age. Turns out, he was well known to the dog officer.
If you are planning on opening the tent door, I would recommend that you tie him to your leg at night or you just might never see h/her again.
They are wonderful dogs but you will have your work cut out for you. I've know owners who absolutely could not let their huskies or mals off leash when hiking.
I think there was a detailed write up on this board about a husky who got himself into a serious accident on Mt Mansfield and needed a rescue. I couldn't find it but someone else might be able to access it and post it.
When I was in MN doing my Outward Bound course, one of our team escaped first night out. He was recovered but the leaders didn't get much sleep that night.
They certainly have the coat and the stamina for hiking and winter camping. You could skijor with your pup and even dog sled. Whatever you do, do not let him pull anything attached to his collar. You will need to get him a real harness or he could be seriously injured. He certainly could help pull a pulk.
Looking forward to hearing what you decide. They are two of my favorite breeds.

 

[sardog1]

My SAR dogs (which worked in AK, MN, WA, and Northern New England) were kenneled outside during the day to help them deal with cold.

A pad will be appreciated by the dog and keeps the tent floor level.

Coat type, ear furring, and foot construction are critical elements for a cold-weather dog. Find a breeder who is actually working with dogs in winter, not merely breeding to a breed standard.

If the dog is large enough and trained for the task, it is a huge boon to have the pulling power on winter trips. Both you and the dog can enjoy comforts (sleeping pads, better food, bigger tent, etc.) that would be onerous to carry on your back.

Maddy is spot on re: the Mal and Husky temperaments.

 

[Dugan]

Sled racing and activities like the Iditarod are a world away from winter hiking. Each is tougher than the other in certain ways. Our hiker-dogs do not have the safety of veterinary evaluations and regular check points along the way.

I can't agree with Griffin's statement strongly enough - find a dog who will fit your WHOLE ENTIRE life (hiking and at home, winter and summer), rather than just a winter hiker.

With that said, I've had a few dogs who joyously camped in the winter. The tradeoff? Not much in the way of activity over 65 degrees F. A warmer tent - but one that smells distinctly doggy several years later after many cleanings. Many, many pairs of protective booties. Too many stops to check booties, dig ice clumps out of feet, remove impacted snow between harness and dog (harness=packs not pulling). Reduced speed that puts me at greater risk of hypothermia. Reduced mileage. This is in forested areas. Going over treeline is a whole 'nother world of protection and risks. Dogs can develop eye problems from solar glare. Injury from strains and sprains from repeated leaping motions over snow. Just imagine if YOU had to push your way through chest deep snow every step of the way. I've had to quit hikes planned to be several days an hour or two in due to winter surfaces that sliced through both booties and pads.

Year round:
Water. The amount will at least double, unless the dog is toy sized. Dogs need more water than humans. Unless you want to force your dog to risk contaminated water and possible giardia, you should carry water and/or other ways to ensure clean water for both of you.
First aid - Your dog's needs differ from yours. Do some research into animal first aid to make sure you can take care of them too.
Proof of vaccinations.
Identifying papers and information in case you become incapacitated or killed while en route to the hike or during the hike.
Spare leash and collar.
Food for the dog.
Safety gear for the dog - see Kevin Rooney's safety harness and rope set up for Brutus.
Bigger tent to have space for the dog.
More weight to have at least a closed cell foam pad for the dog (as much to protect the tent and the dog).

Winter camping is a huge commitment with a lot of risks. We humans can evaluate these risks and accept them for ourselves. Our companion animals cannot. Tread carefully, and please be careful to evaluate just what you ask of an animal that depends upon you absolutely for everything in his or her life.

 

[chinooktrail]

I had a Siberian Husky for 14 wonderful years.

She camped with me year round, and loved it.

The first time in the winter I was wondering how I was going to get her into the tent, I unzipped it to make a spot for her, and was going to look for a good treat to chum her in with, when she leaped OVER me and into the comfort of the middle of our sleeping bags. Yes having a husky quilt in winter is quite enjoyable.

Huskies do love to roam, but I have a LOT of them off leash and under amazing voice control, so it is posiable. Mine was a 'roamer' so she was always hooked or on a leash or a skijoring set up.

I don't do a lot of summer backpacking or hiking, just too hot for me. Maybe I am built like a husky myself. But I still would walk her daily and jog with her and keep her entertained.

Huskies are not like other dogs, they are not into most dog activities like fetching or balls or toys for the most part. They are a WORKING breed, and they need a JOB. Mine LOVED her harness and her backpack, she loved to skijour and run and she even got the hang of staying IN the sled when we went sledding, although she may not have enjoyed it all that much...

Mine was not conditioned to be outside, she slept ON the bed year round. But she never had a problem with the cold. In the middle of winter she would ask to go out in a blinding snowstorm and just curl up in a ball and fall asleep, when she wanted to come in, or when I wanted her to come in, all you could see was a lump in the snow, it would get up and shake and there would be my little fuzzball, all dry and warm and comfortable. She LOVED the snow.

As others have stated, and it can not be said enough, make sure the dog fits into your WHOLE life, and your whole families life.

Huskies and Malamutes are cute and adorable, but check out the shelters, they have plenty and for the same reasons.

They are DIGGERS, and ESCAPE ARTISTS, and they like the neighborhood chickens and geese and cats, and not to play with.

If you enjoy a nice manacured lawn, a husky is NOT for you.

If you don't want to have to brush and comb and vacuume several times a week, a husky is NOT for you.

Invisiable fences do NOT work on Huskies.

A fenced in yeard is great, but they reccomend you dig the posts down DEEP, because they are exceptional diggers and have been known to tunnel out.

I suggest you check out some of the resources on the web, like the Husky Rescue League etc... and see for yourself why so many of these beautiful and misunderstood creatures end up abandoned.

I also suggest you adopt a pet from a shelter. There are SO many unwanted dogs out there who make the most loving pets.

When I was finally ready for another dog, I went looking for another Husky, because I just love the breed and am willing to take the bad with the good.

I ended up with a wonderful little angel who is a Husky mix. We have been together for 7 months, and so far she is everything I could have asked for in a companion.

Good luck!

 

[dug]

My lab did very well with winter camping. The basic needs (paw protection being the biggest one) that are relevent for day hiking still apply. We'd pull into camp, and my wife would be making sure the dog would eat a huge meal. We would prepare some home cooking mixed in with some 'real' dog food, and we would sprinkle a little hot water in there to loosen it up.

After that, she would crawl into the tent and would curl up all night. After we ate dinner, we'd join her. We didn't spend as much time out of the tent as we would normally do. A few things we did specifically for the dog:
-Brought a 1/3 piece of Ridge-Rest that she curled up on.
-She would wear an orange, water-resistant jacket that was fleece lined all the time, including to bed.
-My wife and I would hang out in the tent at opposite ends...foot to head. We'd set up our chairs and play cards or whatever, and my dog would be between us.
-We'd sleep the same way, with both of us on our sides (mostly) in 'spoon' position with our dog between us.
-Once in a while, we brought a spare blanket or a piece of an old sleeping back to cover her. I would check her often during the night to make sure she was warm enough.

You may not have to take as many precautions with a true 'winter dog'.

A few problems, though:
-Getting her to drink was impossible, so dehydration was a concern.
-Therefore, we'd limit the trips to one night.
-The next morning, she would be sick of the tent and would want to go, so there would be no milling around the tent. Pretty much pack up and go.

 

[sardog1]

Some dogs do a better job keeping themselves hydrated than others. Even while running in harness, they'll take swipes of snow. The others need careful monitoring and often encouragement to take in water.

One fix for the dehydration risk is to serve the meals as a sloppy, watery stew, instead of dry. (Mushers do this.) I will also slop out some of the meal onto the snow, to encourage a moisturizing cleanup around the bowl. You can also try to use moist snacks during the day.

I personally could not conceive of barring my dog from drinking surface water, whatever the season. They cool themselves by panting, not by sweating, and they wear a fur coat. There's no way I could carry enough water through the day to meet his needs. I try to keep an eye on the water sources, but I accept the giardia risk and treat it when it arises.

 

[griffin]

Considering that my dogs have been known to snack on dirt, bark, critter crap, and when opportunity arises rotting critter carcasses, and walked away with nothing worse than bad (awful, horrendous, paint-peeling) breath, I can't say that I worry much about them getting giardia from a stream or what have you.

 

[sleeping bear]

I totally agree with everything being said here.

Huskies are great (my folks used to race when I was a kid), but it is the good with the bad.

Currently I have a husky/hound mix with pretty short hair. I've treated him for hypothermia twice and now I don't try to take him camping when it is cold and/or wet. He just doesn't have the fur for it. I even had a sleeping pad, bag, and jacket for him. It just doesn't work. It also took a lot of encouragement to get him to eat or drink anything in winter. I wound up having luck with Purina wet food in pouches and adding beef bullion to warm water. All in all I decided it just wasn't worth it to try and make it work- he needed too much extra stuff and attention for me to feel comfortable having him with me.

Even when I get another dog (hopefully many years down the road) I'll get one that needs a home and appears to be compatible with mine. If it happens that the new dog is also capable of winter camping- great! Otherwise, oh well. Bottom line- as others have said, get a dog that is compatible with the other aspects of your life.

 

[hikingfish]

Hi guys, thanks for all the great comments.

I've read a lot about huskies and malamutes and I've already seen a lot of your friendly considerations. To me, unless the girlfriend accepts the fact that the dog would have to come in the house, a dog is (for now) out of the question. He's either part of the family or he's not (at which point, well...what's the point of having a dog?! ).

Anyways, I'm taking the habit of walking to work now (gas prices!) and some questions about special care with winter camping and dogs came to mind...Thanks for clarifying!

Fish

 

[dug]

Leave the girlfriend outside and let the dog in.

I kid, I kid!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Maddy]

Leave the girlfriend outside and let the dog in.

I kid, I kid!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Dug.
I thought the same thing but didn't have the nerve to write
it

 

[Dugan]

Hey, if it comes down to the SO and my dog... let's just say the SO knows who came to my life first!

Hikingfish, I admire how much thought you're putting into your decision.

 

[smitty77]

To me, unless the girlfriend accepts the fact that the dog would have to come in the house, a dog is (for now) out of the question. He's either part of the family or he's not (at which point, well...what's the point of having a dog?! ).

I used to feel the same way until I got a husky that wants no part of being indoors. Sure, she has the notion that the inside is fun, but after about 15 minutes she whines to go out again. She just gets too hot and too bored. When she was a pup we had a terrible time housebreaking her. She'd come in from outside and have diarrhea on the carpet 10 minutes after. At the time we thought it was an intestinal problem, but in hindsight she was just anxious being inside. At 5 months old, she woke me up six times one night to go outside. Finally at 3 am I put her in the outdoor kennel where she promptly curled into a ball in her house and fell asleep. She's lived outside in an insulated dog house 24/7 ever since. I stuff the house with straw and she makes her own little spot in there, and her body heat keeps that house nice and warm, even at -15F.

Everyone's comments are right on the money, but we're only confirming what you've read online. Mine seems to fit the typical husky temperament: She's not interested in doing anything for you unless she sees it as "working". She's the best hiking partner anyone could ask for, because she sees it as work. When left to make her own fun, she can get very destructive.

Good luck with your search. Even with all of the negatives, I would get another tomorrow.

Smitty

 

[Dugan]

It should be noted too, that Smitty's Siberian is from strong working lines (Seppala, yes?), which is a much different Siberian, both physically and mentally, than you'd get from someone whose goal is the AKC breed ring.

 

[halia and flammeus]

I've read a lot about huskies and malamutes and I've already seen a lot of your friendly considerations. To me, unless the girlfriend accepts the fact that the dog would have to come in the house, a dog is (for now) out of the question. He's either part of the family or he's not (at which point, well...what's the point of having a dog?! ).
Fish

Might I suggest that you look into a Belgian malanois? I rescued a female mal (malanois, NOT malamute!) a few years ago, and she is my constant companion - all seasons, all weather, all excursions. These dogs are incredibly athletic - strong, super endurance, my girl can climb fences and ladders (and sheer rock faces) - but with a personality that is quite unlike many other dogs (they are nothing like snow dogs, and also nothing like labs, for example).

The malanois coat sheds tough weather (water, mud, snow) and they are like cats - they lick temselves clean when dirty! They are basically odor free (except after swimming in nasty water).

I also have a belgian groenendael - the long-haired black version of the mal - she is breathtakingly beautiful - she looks like a coal black wolf - but that coat is AWFUL in the winter - she gets caked with snow and ice, and then melts all over the place. That would be no fun at all in a camping situation!

When temps sink below approx 10 degrees F, my dogs' feet hurt. They get ice forming in between their pads. Booties would help - if they would wear them.

I think it is the malanois attitude that has me sold - Iske is the best companion I've ever hiked with. She has been attacked by wild animals (porcupined in the mouth, kicked by deer), cut by barbed wire (17 stitches needed - hiked 8 miles like that), severed a toe (that was in suburbia)... and never complained, never faltered, never slowed down. And these dogs are ridiculously trainable - they enjoy learning and seek to interact with their people in that way.

During my years as a single mom, Iske was my early warning system - it is in the malanois nature to be vigilant and protective. This could be a turn off for some people.

I guess my enthusiasm for the breed is obvious. Those involved in search and rescue may be familiar with these dogs and have additional insights - they are not common as pets in this country, but better known for their work with law enforcement. They are intense dogs, but they give back every bit as much as they demand. My limited and personal experience with snow dogs (particularly malamutes) was not positive, and I couldn't recommend hiking or camping with one, but I'd try anything with a malanois at my side!

 

[sardog1]

Hoo boy.

We have two Malinois here, ages nine and six. I've known four others in SAR work and met a few more along the way. It's the very last breed that I'd recommend for a first-time dog owner, which the OP is apparently from his description.

They are known for the following qualities, all of which I can personally attest to:

1. They're incredibly smart. They frequently learn from a single exposure to a situation, which is why the next two points bear close scrutiny.
2. Training them requires a thorough understanding of canine psychology generally and Malinois temperament specifically. They're not called "Malinuts" for nothing.
3. They're not called "Maligators" for nothing. They will use their mouths for play and for self-defense when they feel threatened. When the latter comes, it is blinding fast.
4. They have a day-long drive to work. Keeping one as a pet without a job is asking for trouble.
5. They are particularly watchful, in excess of the needs and abilities of most pet owners.

 

[smitty77]

It should be noted too, that Smitty's Siberian is from strong working lines (Seppala, yes?), which is a much different Siberian, both physically and mentally, than you'd get from someone whose goal is the AKC breed ring.

Yes, sorry I should have mentioned that. I got her from a local musher that breeds these dog for mid-distance sprint races. As such she's all business when she's "at speed" on the trail and gets antsy when we stop. She'll chug along for hours on end before she quits, and in winter stays hydrated is Sardog1 mentioned - scooping a mouthful of snow on the run.

 

[halia and flammeus]

Hoo boy.

It's the very last breed that I'd recommend for a first-time dog owner, which the OP is apparently from his description.

They are known for the following qualities, all of which I can personally attest to:

1. They're incredibly smart. They frequently learn from a single exposure to a situation, which is why the next two points bear close scrutiny.
2. Training them requires a thorough understanding of canine psychology generally and Malinois temperament specifically. They're not called "Malinuts" for nothing.
3. They're not called "Maligators" for nothing. They will use their mouths for play and for self-defense when they feel threatened. When the latter comes, it is blinding fast.
4. They have a day-long drive to work. Keeping one as a pet without a job is asking for trouble.
5. They are particularly watchful, in excess of the needs and abilities of most pet owners.

Thanks for balancing the picture. Not everyone loves the idea of dog ownership as a challenge - as a malinois owner, I forget that sometimes!

Yes, I completely agree with your descriptors. For me, I see the intensity of these dogs as incredibly satisfying and positive. My dogs are how I start and end my day, and when I have time off, my dogs are part of how I plan that time (i.e., they hike with us, or I plan a day that includes a long walk). My husband reminds me that not all people think and feel that way about dog ownership.

Every inidividual animal has unique qualities in addition to breed characteristics, as does every owner. I completely agree that mals are not first choice dogs for first time owners... but (you knew there had to be a but!) every now and then, I think the right owner comes along and just hasn't considered the breed because they are unusual.

And all dogs - all animals - can be unpredictable. I've never been bitten by a malinois (my own or any others), but any dog can bite. Any dog can make its owners life miserable if it is a bad fit. So choose a dog as carefully as you would choose any partner you plan to spend 15 or so years with!

Oops - re: the spelling! I was spelling the name phonetically! Thanks for ignoring that!