Winter Hiking Etiquette

[Peakbagr]

"I don't really care what condition the trail is in when I hike, but I take pride in leaving a nice flat track for the next party, and I bury all the disgusting yellow snow that so many ignorant male hikers leave without covering. How much effort does that take? Who wants to see that?"

We were on a trail after a fresh snowfall and following the tracks of a solo hiker last winter. We came upon a squat and defecation right in the middle of the trail. We had to be careful about stepping the snowshoes in the mess and I had to keep the dog away from it. When we passed the hiker, it was a 'she' and we were so disgusted we didn't want to speak to her. Even more unfortunate was that I recognized her.
Like Rik, I've found offenders of both genders.

 

[forestgnome]

OMG!!! That's just wrong! I stand corrected.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

.....We came upon a squat and defecation right in the middle of the trail.

When removing it from their skis, skiers (at least around here) refer to it as brown klister.

Neal: What makes you think that blue is gatorade? Not all lifeforms have red blood..... That reminds me of one time I left a mess after a fall one winter. I left a large spot of red at the bottom of a cliff, and a mile of red spots heading out. I think, however, people are more forgiving of red than yellow. Humans can be funny like that.

 

[Snowflea]

Postholes annoy me as much as anyone, but, especially in "Live Free or Die!" land, I think ya gotta just deal with it... Life's way too short to get upset about such things... in my humble opinion, that is.

 

[Pig Pen]

If we cover up the yellow snow, how do you know where not to step?

 

[dvbl]

Last time I checked this thread, it was about post-holes and glissading.

Now I read "sloppy seconds", "virgin snow", "blue gaitorade", "defecation", and "yellow snow".

Is this what they call thread drift?

 

[Frodo]

After spending 5 days of hiking thru MANY miles of Moose post-holed trails a few weeks ago in Maine, human post holes seem fairly insignificant. At least human post holes are a consistant pattern and easy to snowshoe around (even with an occasional yellow spot off the side of the trail) . They are also not very deep (except for the occasional "crotch-buster")

Moose on the other hand, generally leave no pattern (lots of zig zagging with the occasional "turn back" or "cross over"). They tend to leave DEEP tapering holes, which can suck a snowshoe in (causing lots of cursing), if you step on one right. They also have no problem with defacating right in the middle of the trail, let alone urinating on it, with no regard for the "recreational hiker" out to bag a peak... There should be laws against this

I will take human post holes any day...

 

[Jason Berard]

you people should all sit in a room and write for a sitcom! this is the funniest thread I've read in a long time! although I'm not sure how big the target audience would be.....too bad the moose don't watch TV, I bet they'd like it!

 

[spider solo]

Last time I checked this thread, it was about post-holes and glissading.

Now I read "sloppy seconds", "virgin snow", "blue gaitorade", "defecation", and "yellow snow".

Is this what they call thread drift?

Sure I'll apologize since I took the title "Winter Hiking Etiquette" in a more general sense and missed the narrow focus of just the two subjects of Post Holes and Glissading.

To stay "on subject" in the strictest sense I find it pretty much a non issue which can be taken to the nth degree.
I have literally been asked not to leave foot prints in the snow where people could see them, when I was working as a chimney sweep years ago... however I was not in the mnts at the time.

 

[mtn.goat]

My general rule is if there is powder of at least 1' or so (if it's wet snow then less) then the snowshoes come out. If the snow is so hardpacked that postholing either doesn't occur or occurs so infrequently that it's insignificant then barebooting it is. As for glissading I have to agree with a previous poster that if glissading makes the trail too dangerous for you then you shouldn't be on it. I personally get great satisfaction from butt sliding or snowshoe skiing down a mountain after spending alot of hard work and effort getting to the top. The sections where it is the most fun and makes the most sense are already hard packed and glazed anyway.

 

[dvbl]

Sure I'll apologize since I took the title "Winter Hiking Etiquette" in a more general sense and missed the narrow focus of just the two subjects of Post Holes and Glissading...

Your initial perception was correct. No need for a narrow focus here. The yellow and brown topics should definitely be included under the title of winter hiking etiquette. And moving a few feet off the trail to take care of business isn't really asking too much.

Post-Holing: If one forgot the snowshoes or can't afford them or mis-read the amount of snow there'd be, then that's cool. No ill will there. But if one post-holes with snowshoes strapped to his pack. Hmmmmm...not so cool. And as others have said, almost anywhere where one would post-hole, it's just easier to use snowshoes anyway. Enjoy the easier hiking while at the same time helping to pack the trail. A rare example of doing something easy for you resulting in making it easy for others.

Swiss-bobbing / glissading / butt-sliding: Do it, do it, do it. It's good clean fun. It's not hurting anyone. I believe it was Albee who said anywhere where one can have a nice slide down the trail is probably a spot where hikers should have traction devices anyway. It's harmless, inoffensive fun. Be a kid as much and as long as you can.

 

[giggy]

all good and great, but the problem is when to use them - that differs by personal choice, if I am sinking 4 to 6 inches in fluff, and i don't feel like putting the shoes on, I am not - plain and simple. they will stay on my pack if i think its the right thing to do for me.

also taking a whizz or a dropping a stool are natural actions - no big deal. ya see some yellow snow, walk by it - now seeing some of the brown stuff in the middle of the trail is questionable, but if I see it (I have), it doesn't ruin my day. We see animal dukies all the time on the trail. drive on, you will be past it in a second.

If these were glaicers, then thats different.

I have also seen someone on an ice climb literally wrap a sling off a tree and go right there. Nobody cared no big deal - different set of rules in the hills.

I guess stuff just doesn't bother me - except for these winds and high avy, thats starting to get under my skin.

 

[sapblatt]

Post-Holing: If one forgot the snowshoes or can't afford them or mis-read the amount of snow there'd be, then that's cool. No ill will there. But if one post-holes with snowshoes strapped to his pack. Hmmmmm...not so cool. And as others have said, almost anywhere where one would post-hole, it's just easier to use snowshoes anyway. Enjoy the easier hiking while at the same time helping to pack the trail. A rare example of doing something easy for you resulting in making it easy for others.

Swiss-bobbing / glissading / butt-sliding: Do it, do it, do it. It's good clean fun. It's not hurting anyone. I believe it was Albee who said anywhere where one can have a nice slide down the trail is probably a spot where hikers should have traction devices anyway. It's harmless, inoffensive fun. Be a kid as much and as long as you can.

I can agree with all of that - if you have the snowshoes, and you are postholing - use the shoes! If you do not have them, hike! Sled away.
Part of my griping is because I had a sore ankle and because I wanted the hike to be easy...there was plenty of other snow I could have walked on, but I did not want to make the effort.

 

[Chip]

We see animal dukies all the time on the trail..

HA! Animal Dukies ! Funny words...

I have also seen someone on an ice climb literally wrap a sling off a tree and go right there.

Now there's something you don't learn in an EMS class.


I'll add some fuel to dvbl's fire here: Some of the absolute worst and most dangerous post holes I've seen were in the Adirondacks made by small MSR's. And yet I was still able to negotiate around them.

The hiker had satisfied the letter of the law, but certainly not the spirit.

 

[Tom Rankin]

I'll add some fuel to dvbl's fire here: Some of the absolute worst and most dangerous post holes I've seen were in the Adirondacks made by small MSR's.

Boy, that could be its own thread! I've seen the Lightning Ascents and they are very small. I almost don't know what the point is! You might as well wear stabilicers. They're a lot cheaper!

 

[Rik]

Boy, that could be its own thread! I've seen the Lightning Ascents and they are very small. I almost don't know what the point is! You might as well wear stabilicers. They're a lot cheaper!

The size of the user is an important factor here as well.

 

[Tom Rankin]

The size of the user is an important factor here as well.

Of course. But when a big guy straps on tiny snow shoes, he's going to post hole a lot more than a smaller person wearing bigger snowshoes.

IMHO, the L.A.'s are fine for hard packed snow, but not for trailbreaking.

 

[Tom Rankin]

Speaking of brown stuff, here's another instance of going in the wrong place!



http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070306/od_nm/germany_crime_dc;_ylt=AmpWvmItkCEBgeBNQUZGgNXtiBIF

 

[albee]

I might be going out on a limb here, but I would wager that the majority of people that complain about postholers on here are just satisfying the need to vent their frustrations. I'll admit it - venting feels good. I'm just about one of the most laid-back, laissez-faire hikers you'd ever meet. I say hike your own hike and if you are postholing up to your knees then you're likely miserable enough and you've learned your lesson. I have done my share of grumbling about it and it felt good... but I wouldn't yell at someone that is postholing.

On the other hand, I also live by the golden rule... you know, "Do unto others as you would have them to do unto you." I try not to ruin someone else's experience on the trail. When it is polite and possible I will spread my opinions on trail etiquette. I don't think disregarding the safety and enjoyment of others by encouraging postholers (or encouraging people not to care about what condition they leave the trail) is good form. Just please think of others when you are out there. Policing our own actions is generally our only recourse.

 

[Rik]

Of course. But when a big guy straps on tiny snow shoes, he's going to post hole a lot more than a smaller person wearing bigger snowshoes.

IMHO, the L.A.'s are fine for hard packed snow, but not for trailbreaking.

I agree with the first statement but not the second. What I meant was more that MSRs might be ok for a smaller person. Last week I followed the tracks of a certain "fast rabbit" wearing LA's up Bear Den and past Dial (BTW he was breaking trail and we still couldn't catch him!) and his trail was fine. After the big Valentines day storm three of us broke trail up Giant in MSRs. The next day we helped a group break the trail up Phelps. Those wearing bigger snowshoes seemed to have no advantage over those of us in MSRs. The following week I did an off-trail hike again in MSRs without much difference from those using bigger snowshoes. Just my experience. I've never been a "big guy".