Winter in the Whites and being prepared

[erugs]

At the risk of having to forfeit my male membership card, this is why I asked if her friend was male or female. Males tend to have this attitude more than females, or at least the ones I have met. Flame suit on!

I think that was a good question to ask. The other messages of strong caution are also right on. Reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw (and liked, actually) "My best vacation is your worst nightmare" (or something like that).

If you want a friend to enjoy those great feelings of accomplishment that come with stretching one's boundaries, start with something that will be successful, safe, and secure as well as outside of one's norm.

 

[erugs]

I have an idea. Ask to have this post deleted, then get a friend to restate it and see what answers come up that you would be able to share with your friend. You are, in my opinion, being a good friend, not a mother hen. Look at your experience. Also, your friend may secretly be looking for an Out for this very questionable adventure.

 

[Billy]

...She said "after some prodding" she got their "dream/tentative plan" but that her friend was a little annoyed that she was "worrying". I don't want to get into the details in case her friend reads VFTT but she was left feeling that asking for the plans caused some dissatisfaction on his part...

That's the deal-breaker for me. This guy sounds like a first-class you-know-what. I don't care how "accomplished" he thinks he is; his attitude stinks. I wouldn't let him lead me to the corner drug store, nevermind my first winter hike.

(edited to clean up bad language...sorry.)

 

[daxs]

Seema, you are being a concerned friend not a mother hen. I remember a few years ago I did an winter overnight in the ADK's with 3 other people. It did not even involve a peak. Well, one of the women did not have the right gear, sleeping bag, pad etc, for a very cold overnight. It went well below zero. We ended up breaking camp about 4am and had to warm her up. That meant giving up our own down/warm clothing and forcing hot liquids down her. It was a long, slow hike out. Unpleasant experience. You are right to be concerned.

 

[hikerfast]

unless there is something we don't know, I am surprised that this guy is not procuring the gear she needs ahead of time. I take a lot of newbies hiking and I always make sure they have the gear before we even head out. I always have a ton of extra gear, it seems strange that she is out scrambling to try to get gear she needs. I would think they would be ok going to grey knob, they sound like strong hikers, and you can go downhill in winter in a hurry if you have to turn around. I'd be more worried about the above treeline part. If he has common sense, they should be fine. If he is the pushy type who gets annoyed, I'd be worried about him not wanting to turn around if her winter boot situation is not good, or if clouds come in. I guess it all depends on what exactly they decide to do from grey knob, and how cold it is, I think you are right to be concerned. I really don't know what a person can do to warn or dissuade someone if you aren't close to both people.

 

[sli74]

She is a good friend. I know her pretty well. I don't know him as well. I am going to try and get her properly equipped because as some said, she is an adult and can make her own decisions. I am going to ask her to rent or buy boots and crampons and try and provide her with the rest of the gear. I have some outerwear, older ones that should fit her and I think I can probably get most of the other essentials together. Brian has been digging through our gear boxes since yesterday.

I think she knows I am just concerned because I care about her and I think there is a level of discomfort she is feeling herself because she grew up well south of here and doesn't like really cold temps as much. I am going keep my fingers crossed for good weather.

 

[sli74]

At the risk of having to forfeit my male membership card, this is why I asked if her friend was male or female. Males tend to have this attitude more than females, or at least the ones I have met. Flame suit on!

I figured that is why you asked but I didn't want to assume.

 

[hikerfast]

I live just off 93 so if she wants to borrow one of my monster -50 down parkas let me know. its nice to have in the pack.

 

[Chip]

I think there is a level of discomfort she is feeling herself because she gre up well south of here and doesn't like really cold temps as much.

Good thread here about potential hut temps in the winter.

I'll be interested to hear how this goes. I think "we" forget how irritating and painful cold can be to someone who's not psyched to be out in it.

 

[Will]

No one should hike in the White Mountains in Winter, until they have made at least four hiking trips in the White Mountains in Winter.

 

[DSettahr]

Males tend to have this attitude more than females, or at least the ones I have met.

Especially when it's in front of a female!

 

[RoySwkr]

I remember a few years ago I talked to a woman who was planning to go up Huntington Ravine in winter with a group led by a guy I'd never heard of. She had winter experience but it was primarily XC with a little snowshoe and she had to borrow crampons for the trip. I told her the important thing was to be prepared to turn around if she got beyond her comfort zone, and she said I was the first person who didn't consider her an absolute idiot. The trip turned out very safe as they went to the floor of the ravine but decided conditions were too bad to go higher.

Most winter hikers I know are gear freaks and I'm surprised the guy doesn't want her to have double the gear she needs. I would certainly suggest that the first winter hike be a day hike as that cuts the required gear in half - if these folks are long distance hikers one or all of the N Pres should be a day hike for them. Are they are the sort that feels that day hikes aren't real hikes? Is their relationship such that he can suggest a night at a mountain hut but not a night beforehand at a motel?

 

[MadRiver]

Since we are sharing, about 5 years ago I hiked to Crag Camp in February with an avid 3 season hiker. I implored her to take my wife’s 0 degree down sleeping bag instead of her 25 degree synthetic bag. She wouldn’t hear of it. Once we arrived she could not get warm so I gave her my down bag, bomber hat, down booties, and anything else I could think of to keep her warm while we had dinner. Once it was time to turn in, she gave me those puppy-dog eyes, so I stuffed my bivey sack in her bag to stay warm while she slept in all my gear. On the way out she stopped everyone we met to asked if they had the proper gear. Lesson learned.

 

[sli74]

Most winter hikers I know are gear freaks and I'm surprised the guy doesn't want her to have double the gear she needs.

Are they are the sort that feels that day hikes aren't real hikes?

Is their relationship such that he can suggest a night at a mountain hut but not a night beforehand at a motel?

I am also surprised that he didn't give her a gear list. The trip is almost 3 weeks away so maybe he just hadn't gotten around to it and she came to me for gear advice since she knew I had winter experience.

Possibly. I definitely wouldn't be surprised if they prefer backpacking.

Oh, most thruhikers are never shy about sharing motel rooms. They have probably shared a bed in a motel during their thruhike. we shared with anyone to save money.

He wants to show her the Whites in all its winter glory and thinks there is nothing to worry about. I think if she has a right gear and the right mindset to turn around when she is uncomfortable, she will be fine. She is a strong hiker. I am trying to tell her that listening to her body and her gut combined with openly communicate her limits to her hiking partners are the most important things she can take on this trip with her.

 

[erugs]

I am also surprised that he didn't give her a gear list. The trip is almost 3 weeks away so maybe he just hadn't gotten around to it and she came to me for gear advice since she knew I had winter experience.

You'll probably feel better about it when you see she has the right gear, then. Attitude makes a difference. If she's enthused about this, and understands the struggles hiking can present, she'll do better.

As others have offered, if she has a need for certain gear that I might be able to help loan, I'm willing.

 

[DSettahr]

I think that if you want to instill an appropriate sense of caution in her, but without pointing her to this thread, just give a copy of Not Without Peril to read, and direct her to the chapter on Derek Tinkham. I think it's somewhat appropriate, considering the potential similarities.

We are probably all stressing out over what is, in reality, only a minor concern. It's not a bad idea to handle any concern, even the mild ones, appropriately, especially when it comes to being in the woods in the winter.

 

[mahony]

Gear Training

Lending your gear is very nice, but of all people, I would think that a thru-hiker would know that you don't know what will work for you in a new situation until you are there.

When I bring new gear I usually bring my old gear, just in case. Lent gear is even worse; it isn't sized for you, you aren't familiar with it, and the user doesn't know how they will "respond" (e.g. my winter bag may be far to cold for someone else).

The mother hen is right on IMHO, but you can lead a horse to water and all....

 

[DougPaul]

Many of the above posts focus on gear. Gear is certainly important, but skills are important too. Learning these skills can be jump-started by instruction or reading, but ultimately they must be learned and honed by experience. A good leader can be very helpful to beginners here.

Doug

 

[erugs]

Many of the above posts focus on gear. Gear is certainly important, but skills are important too. Learning these skills can be jump-started by instruction or reading, but ultimately they must be learned and honed by experience. A good leader can be very helpful to beginners here.

Doug

I agree with what Doug wrote. You don't just strap on crampons or carry an ice axe. Well, you can, and many get away with it, but there can be unpleasant consequences. For myself, I didn't know what I didn't know until I was shown on the slopes by taking a mountaineering course. Not to be overly judgmental when I don't know the situation, there is even a photo on the AMC web site of a hiker carrying an ice axe wrong for mountaineering but right for getting a picture of a guy with an ice axe.

 

[Blue]

I think its ok to worry about a friend, I know I worried about you several times

I met a woman this year, wandering around on crutches in a north country hotel where she worked. She had frostbite on her toes (both feet) after winter hiking with poor boots. She wasn't very sure which mountain she had hiked with her fiancee, just that it was cold out and that she wouldn't be hiking again any time soon. Meeting this woman was a good reminder to be safe.