Winter in the Whites and being prepared

[TEO]

after all this is the guy who left his partner to die on K2.

My alarm meter just hit 118/100.

 

[dr_wu002]

I would feel a lot better if there was a 3rd person along on this trek. The NP's are a whole different world in winter: even if you know them well in the other seasons.

I'll go. People totally love having me around, especially for my keen navigational abilities, top notch winter gear and good choice of summit-time beverages. We can play the "don't look at the sign" game which is particularly fun in the Northern Presis... the trail runners / shorts / microspikes game in winter is another ha-ha for most people... as is the "don't worry -- the Cog runs year-round" game as well...

-Dr. Wu

 

[Billy]

Everyone seems to be assuming the worst about this guy.

Assuming, I might add, on little to no information.

Little is KNOWN about this guy.

Before you condemn him, find out a little more information.

Geez!

This isn't a court of law. There are no rules of evidence here. This is a hiking BB. Some threads are fact based; some are opinion based. This one is mostly opinion based. So far the only "evidence" we have about this guy is what Seema's friend tells her, and so far it isn't pretty. If this guy turns out to be a prince, I'll be the first to admit being wrong. Shoot, I'm wrong every day 10 times before breakfast; I'll have no problem copping to this. So, until Seema's friend starts singing a different tune about this guy, put me down as a YES in assuming the worst about him.

 

[BF]

after all this is the guy who left his partner to die on K2.

What ever became of his partner?

 

[sli74]

I would feel a lot better if there was a 3rd person along on this trek. The NP's are a whole different world in winter: even if you know them well in the other seasons.

Can you suggest that they do a dry run with gear on a different peak, to get a sense of what to expect? If you and Brian could join them on a shakedown hike, that would be even better. I did a lot of gear shakeout on Mondnock when I got back into winter hiking. I got a lot of funny looks hiking up with a full pack, but I did learn a lot about some gear that I ended up not trusting.

It will probably all go well, and they will laugh at you for being a mother. Who cares? if something ever did go wrong you could never live with yourself if you kept your mouth shut.

I'll throw one out there: she will likely be more prepared than he will, and they will adjust their plans accordingly.

I also think everything will be fine if she has the proper gear. I am not in a position to make suggestions as this is a trip being planned by her friend and I know him well enough to know that me butting in won't go over well so I only have in my control the choice to equip her properly. She doesn't have much money so I might buy some extra gear to lend her. I could always use a back up pair of crampons.

I am sure it will all work out and I can worry less when they go next time.

 

[Maddy]

You are a very good friend Seema.
She is a very lucky young woman to have such a caring person looking out for her well being. If she has the right gear she is off to a good start.

 

[sli74]

Everyone seems to be assuming the worst about this guy.

Assuming, I might add, on little to no information.

Little is KNOWN about this guy.

Before you condemn him, find out a little more information.

Geez!

I agree that little is known about him. I said in one of my post that part of my worry is because I don't know him well. Having said that here is what I do know:
He did not provide her (a novice winter hiker) with a gear list.
He did not give her an itinerary and when pushed to give her the plan responded in an abrupt if informative way that caused her to feel she upset him. I read their emails so I can confirm he sounded annoyed. I will add one more bit of info here that I am hesitant to share publically but will ... When she asked if he was mad, he said "no but chill the f*** out. We got this"

That is the phrase that prompted me to start this thread.

I also know that he is "hardcore" and a free spirit. I know how much she looks up to him. I know he just hiked the PCT and hasn't been hiking a ton since our 2008 AT thruhike. I KNOW she doesn't have the right gear or money to buy what she needs. I also feel in my gut that she is nervous.

I know he has experience and knowledge. I know he will check the weather forecast. I can only hope he has a healthy risk tolerance.

I want to be clear that I don't think he would purposely put her in danger, I just hope things work out for the best.

 

[BlackBuffalo]

Done tons of winter hiking in western mass & southern NH, never the Whites. I read the AMC winter hiking guide for gear, I fall real short in preparedness.
I read Not Without Peril, learned a lot.

In spring, summer and fall, I'd be over prepared for hiking the Whites. I really would be hesitant to try winter without knowing the gear I'd be borrowing, let alone the kind of conditions I might find.

I'd play the role of the worried friend. Some are too lax in their plans. You have to show that it's serious business up there.
Dave

 

[una_dogger]

Hi Seema and Brian!!!

What an appropriate time to raise such a great topic. Nothing like mining the collective! Great read and refresher, with winter right around the corner, its very timely, too!

You are not forgotten and have been missed!

I live just off 93 so if she wants to borrow one of my monster -50 down parkas let me know. its nice to have in the pack.

are you still pedding your LL Bean Deep Discount finds out of the trunk of your car??

 

[Kevin Rooney]

...I know how much she looks up to him.

This is the part I find especially troublesome. That kind of an attitude can cloud judgement.

And what happens if he gets hurt 1 mile from Grey Knob/Craig Camp? It could get ugly in a hurry.

As SherpaKroto pointed out - try to convince her to have an experienced 3rd winter hiker along.

 

[--M.]

... ...When she asked if he was mad, he said "no but chill the f*** out. We got this"

That is the phrase that prompted me to start this thread.

I also know that he is "hardcore" and a free spirit. I know how much she looks up to him. I know he just hiked the PCT and hasn't been hiking a ton since our 2008 AT thruhike. I KNOW she doesn't have the right gear or money to buy what she needs. I also feel in my gut that she is nervous.

This kind of jumped off the page for me, reminds me of the Ann Landers rule: people can only take advantage of you if you give them permission. She's got to assert herself and vocalize boundaries.

If I were in her shoes, I'd think about who's ultimately responsible for my decisions, and not be cowed into going beyond my gray zones. If she's uncomfortable, it's incumbent on her to speak up and not go along to get along.

There's an element of tempest-in-a-teapot here, but a hiking partner should be open-minded and patient when guiding, and ready to represent one's self responsibly when following. She'll either find her spine or suffer for her silence. If they're to have a real relationship, they'll be honest & candid about this.

It could be cake, and certainly one should be adequately chilled, but it's okay to ask questions.

 

[SherpaKroto]

One other thing... why risk ruining a great future of winter hiking with a first time bad experience? I've never regretted being OVERprepared, but have always had less of a good time being UNDERprepared.

I'll go back to my hole now

 

[una_dogger]

One other thing... why risk ruining a great future of winter hiking with a first time bad experience? I've never regretted being OVERprepared, but have always had less of a good time being UNDERprepared.

I'll go back to my hole now

I would say that its better to be well geared than undergeared OR overgeared. Thinking about my first backpacking experience in the Catskills about 25 years ago with a cast iron frying pan and 3 gallons of water. ( I shore did have a good time, tho!)

Just sayin, Sherp.

 

[TrishandAlex]

If I were in her shoes, I'd think about who's ultimately responsible for my decisions, and not be cowed into going beyond my gray zones. If she's uncomfortable, it's incumbent on her to speak up and not go along to get along.

This is a good point. Ultimately, it is her decision to go or not go, to trust or not trust this guy. She needs to take responsibility for herself and, if it comes to it, loudly declare that she wants to turn back.

Sometimes it's very important not to care what others think -- you do what's best for yourself and to hell what the "friend" says or does. Such "friends" are usually too hung up with their own issues and agendas to actually do the right thing half the time.

Of course, this guy might be very nice, this is all based on negative assumptions, etc. etc.

 

[sli74]

Well that opens up a whole new dimension to the topic. I'd be worried about her too, based on that comment alone. He doesn't sound like someone she should be alone with. If she's nervous, she needs to listen to her gut. Its really tough to have a "back out" plan if you are new to something, out in the woods far from a car, and dependent on another.

Spoken unfortunately from experience. Hopefully I am not projecting, but the way you have described thier relationship threw up quite a few red flags for me. (hardcore, free spirit, shutting her down, she doesn't have money for gear, she looks up to him, he's got the experience and it seems the control....) I knew someone like that once, an ex boyfriend, whom had hiked the AT and many other long distance/hardcore backpacks -- who I really looked up to and thought I could learn alot from. One thing I didn't anticipate was being lifted by my back pack straps, thrown against a rock, and choked....because I was tired, wanted to camp, it was dark and had been a long day, we were out of water, and I'd just been marched across Franconia Ridge in a hail storm. One of the most frightening moments of my life.

You have every reason to be concerned. Hiking the PCT doesn't the hiking mentor make.

Sponsor her here, there are plenty of mentors!

I am on my blackberry, on the road so forgive the shorter responses. I got a PM addressing the same issue as Sabrina did above:

I don't believe they are in a relationship, she looks up to him more like an older brother or best friend. I also don't get the feeling he is abusive or dangerous just laid back. It is hard to describe someone with written words. I am worried about her getting in over her head but my gut doesn't tell me that he will do any direct harm to her. They are good friends. I hope I am expressing my take on the situation properly.

Btw, if you have sent me a PM and I don't respond right away, don't be offended, please ... These blackberry keys are TINY.

 

[RoySwkr]

Staying at Grey Knob, there will probably be others around even midweek and she has a nice place to sit it out if he likes the weather above treeline better than she does.

This woman sounds smart enough to avoid someone who's a cannibal, I think the real issue is he may not realize she is so far behind in stamina and experience and try to push too hard. I remember being on the Katahdin knife edge behind a teenage couple, she was quite unhappy, he said "But you said you wanted to go on a hike!"

Tell her to bring a cell phone and promise to pick her up anytime day or night just like a loving mother Or give her the numbers for Hikers Paradise and a cab company, she can take the bus home from Gorham. Once she knows she's not dependent on this guy, she can be much more relaxed (and so can you).

 

[dr_wu002]

Tell her to bring a cell phone and promise to pick her up anytime day or night just like a loving mother Or give her the numbers for Hikers Paradise and a cab company, she can take the bus home from Gorham. Once she knows she's not dependent on this guy, she can be much more relaxed (and so can you).

Serious: I don't understand why we all just don't go? Make a Gathering out of it. They won't mind and it'll be fun and we'll make sure they don't kill themselves falling into King's Ravine or getting run down by an exploding, careening out-of-control Cog engine. Just tell us the date and we'll all be there!

-Dr. Wu

 

[erugs]

Serious: I don't understand why we all just don't go? Make a Gathering out of it. They won't mind and it'll be fun and we'll make sure they don't kill themselves falling into King's Ravine or getting run down by an exploding, careening out-of-control Cog engine. Just tell us the date and we'll all be there!

-Dr. Wu

I was just about to make a similar suggestion. If Wu is going, I want to go. They don't even have to know we've planned it! Some of us could be there on the hike in, others on the hike out, the most hard-core of us hanging out above tree line, etc. They'd probably wonder why the mountain was so crowded, though.

We have enough "heresay" information to be worried ourselves because we trust and like who it is from. I think all the more of all of us here after this exchange. Some excellent, thought provoking ideas and good humor are shown.

 

[una_dogger]

Oh Roy, please don't go there. Surely you are not suggesting that women who are assaulted by men are somehow lacking in intelligence?

Sorry, seema, I couldn't let that one go by.

 

[Chip]

I was just about to make a similar suggestion. If Wu is going, I want to go.

This'll be like that scene in The Godfather where the young couple is walking down the street, camera pans back...and there's the whole freakin family following them down the road.

Hey Seema, the guys sounds like a tool, maybe your friend breaks up with him before the hike, but I'm sure she'll be okay.