winter sleeping bag question..thx

[coldfeet]

OK...cold weather..below 0..what do you use? I know many choices..backpacking or car camping?..Let's just stick with backpacking or pulling it with a sled..thx..PS any opinions on the EMS -20? Other sites mentioned poor zipper construction..i tried the search but couldn't get info...Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[Rob S]

Check out this recent thread about sleeping bags .....

Happy Thanksgiving!

Rob

 

[ADackR]

the coldest that i have seen is just below zero... i use an EMS tundra -5.. i have had this for 5 years and love the thing.. i have zero complaints about the zipper and the overall construction.

i usually bring a fleece blanket just in case it gets too cold... otherwise i have mid-heavy weight thermals that i ware...

good luck finding info....

as for car camping, we use a subaru outback with an old futone mattress. we then have our down sleeping bags, a heavy weight fleece blanket and a comforter... we stay pretty warm and have been in temps of -20....

happy hiking/skiing everyone

 

[Peakbagr]

Lots of our winter camping bas been in the +10 to -15 range, with some nights a little warmer and others colder. A good full length pad underneath helps a lot. Being in a tent can raise the ambient temperature 10 degrees if the interior is not too large.
You can also get by with a bag with a slightly lower temperature rating by packing a bag liner or vapor barrier liner and by wearing the next days' clothes to sleep and leaving your booties and hat on in the sleeping bag.
An important and completely subjective factor is how much warms YOU need to be comfortable sleeping.

 

[sierra]

bag

I think -20 is a good temp rating and while EMS gear isnt top of the line, Ive had pretty good success with their equipment. Certain things can help keep you warm in addition to a good bag. Diet helps alot, keep hydrated and eat well to keep your furnace burning all night. I wear thermal underware top and bottom in addition to a fleece hat,much heat can be lost through your head. On real cold nights if I have the water and time I fill a nalgene bottle with hot water and throw it in the bottom of my bag. What alot of people dont realize is a sleeping bag is like a cooler, it will maintain heat given of your body but it wont generate heat persay.

 

[swamp]

I'm a synthetic fan through and through and my favorite bag is a Wiggy's Ultima Thule (check out wiggys.com). It's rated to -20 and that's conservative. Bombproof construction (#10 zippers) and excellent insulation.
OK...I'm a Wiggy's fan...the downside is that it's still a synthetic bag.It weighs about 5 lbs and doesn't stuff worth a damn.
My other bag (alright...I finally caved and went down) is a Western Mountaineering Apache SMF. It's rated to +15 F but with a good mat and vapor barrier I've been comfortable at -30F. It weighs nothing and packs like a loaf of bread.

 

[Neil]

I know this seems insane but the bulk of my winter camping has been done with temps at -40. In the morning there was lots of ice around the bag's surface at the feet, the crotch area and around the blowhole. By the fourth night out the bag was not as efficient. We used down bags rated to -40. Inside the tent the surfaces were all covered with hoar frost that snowed down on us with the slightest provocation. It would take me a half hour just to turn in. What clothing that wasn't on us was under us. In those days we had skimpy foam sleep pads and we wore wool. Getting up in the morning required either true bravery or a full bladder. A huge technological improvement was the use of a vapour barier liner in the bag. I still use that same bag but it weighs a lot (close to 5 lbs. maybe more) and the idea of a versatile layering system makes a lot of sense. Why own 3 bags? I have another one rated to -12C but will take my winter one this weekend cuz I'm 100%, no matter what happpens, guaranteed warm.

 

[SherpaKroto]

And remember, -40C is, er -40F.

I just got a new bag from The Backside on Monday (yes, another one, and yes, I was finally able to find it by being persistent). "0 Degree Down Under", 750 power down. I will be using it for the first time tomorrow night. The Backside has had supply issues for over a year: I'm not sure if they have been resolved. their bags have been nearly impossible to find. I love my -30F Ice X (proprietary X-Fibre), so I figured it was worth trying to find another one of their bags. They are generously cut (read: wide) so I fit in them If you can get them, they are very well made for the price that you pay (I got this one for $124 shipped!). It's not top of the line (like Western Mountaineering or Marmot, etc) but mine has kept me warm and I've used it down to -24F. If you can spend the time shopping, you can find a reasonably priced bag that you'll be happy with.

I agree that -20F is a rating to shoot for. I also prefer a long in the winter to keep more stuff at the bottom of the bag. If you overnight a lot, you probably have a better sense of how warm you sleep, but if you're unsure, go for -20F minimum. Down or synthetic is personal choice, and reading the other thread will help. You should look seriously at the TNF bags using Polarguard Delta insulation, like the Tundra and Dark Star. I wouldn't worry as much about an extra 8 ounces for the sleeping bag (particularly if you are basecamping or sledding). You can find another way to shed the extra ounces. I'd worry only about staying warm and dry.

 

[Ken999]

Swamp- Wiggy offers a new ultralight shell material and options on insulation thicknesses for a few extra dollars. A Ultima thule in the new configuration will weigh about a pound less and pack much better. It will, however, be more like a -20 bag, and not be as warm as your current model. It will likely be my next bag.

I have a 30 deg. bottom, 20 deg. top model in the new material, size long/wide, that goes 3 lbs. and stuffs into a 6.5" x 16" Granite gear sack. I've been into the 20's with it so far...no layers...no problem. With some long underwear and a fleece I should be able to get to zero with it.

www.wiggys.com

 

[Whitetrails]

I get a little more warmth out of my 0 degree Tundra by putting a layer of all spare clothes between the bag and my sleep pad. I zip up my parka and pull it over the lower half of the sleeping bag to add an extra layer around my legs and feet. If I still need more I'll pull my down jacket inside and just loosely drape it over my upper body. And a balaclava is a must for me.

 

[Maddy]

I tend to get very cold. I have a -30 North Face "Tangelo" bag and I use a fleece bag liner with it. If I am pulling my pulk I will also bring my down 20 degree Go Lite bag to use inside the Tangelo if it is bitter cold out. It will be plenty easy to pull this gear on the pulk but I wouldn't want to backpack all this plus all the other necessities.
My North Face bag is quite old and it really looks like new.

 

[Whitetrails]

winter sleeping bags

Yes, space and weight are also an issue when backpacking. I pack my 0 degree Tundra into a large nylon laundry bag and then into the lower compartment of my backpack. It just fits. Extra fuel, food, and clothing do take up more space so I include an add on dry bag to the exterior. I think its an OR product. Its about 8"x20". In it goes my "bunker gear", down jacket and hood, extra mitts, balaclava, ski pants, down booties and such. In winter I almost always bring the full tent ( as opposed to just the fly) and use that instead of a leanto or bivy. Its heavy and slow but my winter milege is shorter anyway due to less daylight hours and longer morning prep time. I might try and expirment with the pulk method this winter.

 

[zeke]

winter bags

I have a -20F bag from Mountain Hardware that I use in combination with a bag liner on the inside and a bivy sack on the outside (over feet and midsection), plus a winter-grade pad underneath.

Inside the bag, I typically wear most of what I was wearing during the day (base layer, long johns, fleece pants and jacket, and warm hat, plus glove liners) but take off the hard shell outer layer--the Goretex, primarily, and the heavier gloves. If it's really cold, I'll drag my down parka inside for use if needed.

All of this keeps me warm down to about the -20 rating on the bag. But I'm not OVERLY warm with this system. I sleep fairly cold, so I stay bundled up when I get into the sleeping bag for the night.

I mention all this to underscore two points that previous posters made: (1) you can't go just by the bag's rating since ratings vary with the manufacturer and don't take individual warmth factors into account, and (2) be sure to try out your equipment (sleep out in your back yard, on your deck, etc.) before you venture into a situation where the ante is upped. That second point is a good rule of thumb for any equipment, especially in the winter.

 

[rambler]

http://www.warmlite.com/bags_In.htm

 

[stoopid]

http://www.warmlite.com/bags_In.htm

PG rating, I see nipple!

 

[Bushwacked]

I have a Mountain Hardware King Tut -20 that I got on killer deals from Northern Moutain supply as a closeout. My lowest temp so far is -5* and I wouldn't want it to be much colder than that (I was in my long midweights, light vest (not my down) hat and gloves. I was comfortable using only a z-rest w/ my shell pants and jacket between me and the pad (did a fair amount of sliding around).

I'm afraid I'm a lightweight enough that if I'm pretty certain I'll be hitting -20 lows, I'm pretty sure I'm either not out in my tent (Gray Knob or such like instead) or not out at all.

One funny thing though. I love the reverse thermal. One night at Liberty they were forecasting -10-15 in the valleys and I doubt it got below 5-10* there that night. The temps actually dropped by mid-morning.

 

[sardog1]

Lots of excellent points made here; this one's a keeper for winter newbies (and for you infrequent winter overnighters.)

I would add:

1. There's a bigger difference between -20F and -40F/C than a mere twenty degrees. At the former temperature, you're working to stay comfortable and get some sleep. But at the latter, Mother N. is trying hard to take your digits, your limbs, and even your life's breath. If you're likely to encounter the hardcore stuff, you will want to have tested your gear and your methods in some serious subzero conditions before your first attempt at this level.

2. Moisture on your skin is your heat-robbing enemy. Warm, dry sleeping clothes, from a balaclava, etc., down to your sleeping booties/socks, are a must. Don't wear them during the day ('cept maybe the balaclava, if you can get it dry before bedtime.) If you need to pile on the daytime fleece for sleeping, shake off all the moisture, liquid and frozen, before retiring for the evening.

3. Stay well hydrated. Moisture under your skin is essential to keep the furnace running efficiently.

4. Bring some hot water in Nalgene bottles to bed. Well-contained hot moisture will help you get through the night, and you'll have liquid water ready in the morning (usually ..... )

5. A well-ventilated tent is essential if you're going to be out for more than a night or two. Accumulated frost will soak your bag and your clothes.