WMNF Parking Pass Extended 10 Years. . .

[Tom Rankin]

Speaking generally,

I have no problem with a tax on everyone to keep certain areas protected.

I also have no problem with a usage fee. Otherwise, everyone would be paying for something that only a few people use.

 

[DougPaul]

IIRC, once upon a time, the NPS entry fees went in the the government general funds and then operating money was handed back by the government. But that was 30+ years ago, well before the Fee Demo "project".

(Info from an NPS ranger, 30+ years ago. IIRC, we asked if a more expensive pass would help the park--the answer was no due to the above.)

Times and funding have changed.

Doug

 

[Jeff-B]

Fee info

Here is an info link, lots of stuff to surf through here, including paper trails.

Fee programs

I have no problem paying this modest fee, and knowing that it goes to the area justifies the program, in my opinion.
I would rather see a nicely built, low impact, architectural log toilet than those ugly blue plastic porta-poties.

How many folks overnight at shelters and tentsite platforms at $6 head or whatever it is?
Those are located on WMNF land as well.

Jeff

 

[danno]

According to the park service web site 80% of the fee goes back to ANP, which I believe is a higher percentage that at other National Parks.

If 80% of the fees go to ANP, than I certainly stand corrected. There was a time back in the early days of fees at ANP (1980's) where the park officials stated most all of the fees went to the park, when in actuality that was not the case. Since then I have always been skeptical of where the fees go.

During that time I was living the poor college student life, and would not have been able to use parts of the park if I had to pay for them, and the areas I used were not in fee area of the loop road (mainly south wall of the precipice and otter cliffs).

Though I don't agree with Friends of Acadia's statement

all must pay the entrance fee

, I do agree that if you can pay (even for just a day pass), than it's a good idea to help out the park. I say this hoping there is truth when the park service states that 80% of the fees stay in the park as stated.

 

[RoySwkr]

I have been buying two annual passes for $25 for the past few years. My brother and I split the cost and we each get an annual pass for our vehicle.

The 2 vehicles must be in the same household, while perhaps you live with your brother I have heard of people illegally splitting passes which is easier to convict on than failure to pay.

While the fee might not be unreasonable if spent wisely, I object to paying for closing the Owls Head Trail without notice for instance. And if you buy anything but a day pass, they can't know what trails you want it spent on and I'm less happy than DM with some of their projects.

 

[cushetunk]

Not that I am always a paragon of virtue, but if you choose not to pay fees at some places (like Acadia) there are many other ways to give back to those places and people who take care of them. Direct volunteer efforts can sometimes be much more important than fees or donations.

 

[Frosty]

also a good option for hikers of modest means we often forget for some twenty bucks is hard to come by.

I have a hard time buying this argument. We're talking twenty bucks a year.

If you only hike twenty times in a year, it is the cost of a snickers or granola bar each hike, less than a coffee on the way to the trailhead or a cold drink after the hike. Compared to gas to get to the trailhead for each hike, a snack on the road, something to eat afterwards, it is insignificant. Not even mentioning hiking clothing and gear costs.

 

[Orsonab]

$1.67

Given that many of us spend at least $20 in petrol to get to the White Mountains every hike, I'm assuming those who are objecting to the pass do not do so because paying $1.67 a month is a financial burden.

If you are objecting because of the principle of being "double-taxed" - paying money to visit land already paid for with your taxes - I find the basis of this false. You are not being charged for the land that you already paid for; you are being charged for its maintenance, decent facilities to offset tourist impact and to provide a reasonable degree of safety for all those who use it via the park rangers. You are paying for the upkeep of the parking lot you are driving on and the bridges you are crossing.

Should the money for the maintenance come out of the federal budget? Sure. But until it does, I can live with $1.67 a month.

PS Personally, I like the log cabin loo at the Lincoln Woods trailhead - makes for a nice warm place to change after tackling Owls Head.

 

[SteveHiker]

The 2 vehicles must be in the same household, while perhaps you live with your brother I have heard of people illegally splitting passes which is easier to convict on than failure to pay.

While the fee might not be unreasonable if spent wisely, I object to paying for closing the Owls Head Trail without notice for instance. And if you buy anything but a day pass, they can't know what trails you want it spent on and I'm less happy than DM with some of their projects.

I've wondered about this. They don't write down your name or license plate number, so how would they catch you? And come to think of it, the sticker says 'non-transferable', but again since they don't know what car I put it on, how would they know if I moved it?

 

[trailbiscuit]

Not that I am always a paragon of virtue, but if you choose not to pay fees at some places (like Acadia) there are many other ways to give back to those places and people who take care of them. Direct volunteer efforts can sometimes be much more important than fees or donations.

This is a great point. We can't forget that we can help out without our wallets.
Truer words were never spoken. (I'm not sure about the "paragon of virtue" part, but I'll take your word for it.)

 

[Kevin Rooney]

I've wondered about this. They don't write down your name or license plate number, so how would they catch you? And come to think of it, the sticker says 'non-transferable', but again since they don't know what car I put it on, how would they know if I moved it?

I believe the answer to this is that they're not registering the vehicle - they're registering you. If you buy a National Parks Pass and the Golden Eagle Pass, you now have the equivalent of WMNF parking pass. However, there are no stickers involved as it's a plastic card. So, they're folllowing the same process as for the NP Pass. If asked at an entrance, you show the pass. If parking in the Whites, you display it on the dash. In other words - it goes with you, not the vehicle. Sometimes I've been asked for a photo ID along with the Pass.

Occasionally the WMNF parking police either don't see my NP Pass or don't realize that it is a parking pass and I get a 'ticket'. If you get one - realize it's not a ticket. It's a request to pay the parking fee. So, compliance with this fee appears to be voluntary, and if the posts on this thread are any indication, there's a high degree of voluntary compliance.

 

[cushetunk]

Occasionally the WMNF parking police either don't see my NP Pass or don't realize that it is a parking pass and I get a 'ticket'. If you get one - realize it's not a ticket. It's a request to pay the parking fee. So, compliance with this fee appears to be voluntary

And if anyone feels cantankerous about these 'tickets', you can always forward them on to your representative in Washington.

 

[RoySwkr]

I've wondered about this. They don't write down your name or license plate number, so how would they catch you? And come to think of it, the sticker says 'non-transferable', but again since they don't know what car I put it on, how would they know if I moved it?

The "household" passes have the same serial number with A and B, if they are on cars registered to different addresses that would presumably be illegal. As you say they are unlikely to discover this but would be easy to prove if they got a tipoff.

In some areas they use "non-transferable" to mean that the sticker must be affixed to the windshield with its own glue to be legal, this makes it physically difficult to swap very often.

And note that although the FS suggests that you leave valuables at home or out of sight, you are required to leave a $65 Golden Eagle Pass on prominent display. (National Parks typically give you a weekly paper pass to display if you show the GE at a visitor center.)

 

[forestgnome]

I pay $25 per year. I don't agree with all of the things it's spent on, but we live in America, where at least we get to weigh in on such decisions. It is impossible to get millions of humans to agree on anything.

The toilets at trailheads are a good thing, IMO. I do volunteer litter details each time I hike, and at trailheads with toilets there are far fewer tp wads, which are always prevelent at trailheads without them. I removed at least 50 tp wads at the UNH/Downes Brook trailhead recently, but Sabaday Falls trailhead ( which has a toilet ) had only a couple.

A ranger "busted" me cleaning the trailhead at Moat Mt Trail. He explained that if I spent 16 hours doing that in some govt. program, I'd get a free pass. That's less than $2 per hour It was a kind offer, but that would degrade the sense of pride I feel doing it spontaneously for free.

I don't beleive a fee keeps a single person from hiking. Show me one person who doesn't have $20 for a year of hiking, who hasn't spent money on booze, cigarettes, junk food, lottery, Dunkin Donuts, etc., etc., etc. The entitlement mentality doesn't belong here in the White Mountains.

 

[Bob Kittredge]

Mine is a laminated ID card size thingy that came in a plastic holder to hang it on your mirror. It can be moved from vehicle to vehicle as needed. Since I am of advanced age, I paid $10 for life. I spent two months at NF campgrounds two years ago at half price thanks to the "Golden Age" pass.

I just turned 62 a week ago and immediately went and bought myself a "Golden Age" pass too. Great deal; I can use it in the Whites or at the Cape Cod National Seashore beaches.