egilbe
Member
“Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions.” -Rita Mae Brown
Wow, this a trip report for the books!
- Thread starter B the Hiker
- Start date
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Experience is the most demanding instructor. She gives the test first and lesson after.
Mike P.
Well-known member
For a while I kept a log of "failed" hikes, failure being not reaching the summits I had planned to get to. I learned much more on those trips than one's that went off without a hitch.
Some things were gear related, some planning (planning Vs. fitness level then) some were lack of sleep for a couple of days before a big trip, hiking with the flu (predating, Covid, MERs and I think SARS), buying too many energy bars at a good price and after a few months of nothing but bars preferring going hungry Vs. another bar, wearing some cotton
hikerbrian
Active member
A-f******-men.
I'm reminded of two experiences I've had fairly recently. A few years ago I arrived at Kinsman shelter with an AMC group I was leading. We took out our MSR Whisperlites to melt snow for water. A pair of guys (brothers) suddenly appeared and claimed we weren't allowed to use 'that kind of stove' near the shelters. They claimed only Jetboils were allowed. At first I thought they were kidding. I brushed them off, but they became quite agitated, bordering on physical, and berated me as the leader for being so dumb as to allow Whisperlites to be used near a shelter. 'Wow, an AMC leader is using a Whisperlite? I can't believe the AMC lets people like this lead trips!' I was so shocked I actually was at a loss for words. They kept at it - someone they knew had 'burned down a shelter with that stove,' and 'what was I going to do if one of them flared up?!!!!!!11!!1' I think they also threw in the possibility that I might get someone killed with my ignorance.
Around that same time, I was leading a trip to Isolation. A pair of participants, a reasonably fit couple in their late 20's, showed up in Norwegian Welt-style boots, no insulation. It was about zero degrees and was only supposed to get colder. I told them with some urgency that I really didn't think those boots were going to work out for the conditions. We went back and forth for some time, but they were adamant that they'd been out in similar conditions in the boots and were confident they'd be fine. They had 'good socks and vapor barrier liners.' We came to an agreement that we'd check in repeatedly, and when we got to our planned camping spot in the birch glades near Engine Hill we'd decide if they were to turn around and go home (if their feet were cold); I would accompany them back to their car if that were the case. Well, it was a fairly epic trip. Cold. The Engine Hill Bushwhack was fine, but we opted to do the second bushwhack too, straight up the ridge to Davis Path. That was BRUTAL. And yet there they were, the two of them, cruising along just fine. In fact, when we finally broke out onto Davis Path, the guy pulled out his phone, which had Gaia and he was somehow able to keep warm, and directed us to go north rather than south to hit the summit of isolation. We took the trail back to our tentsite, the evening was uneventful, and the two of them were cheery as ever the next morning when we packed up to head out, it being about 10 below at that point.
What I concluded from those and other incidents is there is more than one way to do The Thing, and anyone who is convinced that their way is The One True Way and All Other Ways will Get Someone Killed is almost certainly full of crap. Having been on both sides of it, I'll offer my advice when asked, but that's about it. Leading trips is tricky though. Those boots on Isolation really were not a good choice, even though they worked out. That is a difficult situation to predict and deal with. Still. Humility. It's a thing we could use more of, IMO.
nartreb
Well-known member
That was me. https://www.summitpost.org/extending-the-pemi-loop/311203
Sorry for the self-promotion and thread diversion, but I figure it's de minimis after page 4 of a thread...
Hah, I was considering posting but figured you'd self-identify if you wanted to be connected to it. Second favorite trip report (behind the late lamented "complete punter's guide to succeeding or not on the West Buttress")
Tom_Murphy
Member
3 AM: I've taken the North Lincoln exit onto route 3...
Still so, so, good. Hahahaha, I'm literally crying.
I've bookmarked the page for when I need cheering up.
mirabela
Active member
Wow, that's magnificent. I'm sad that I missed it all those years ago.
jfb
Active member
Not a thread diversion at all. Just a good example of the type of unexpected event we should all be prepared for. No serious injuries, just got back later than planned.
Great story! Thanks for posting. Outdoor Life magazine has a regular column called "This Happened to Me". Usually hunting/fishing/boating related, but I think sometimes there have been hiking stories, or maybe hunters getting into trouble and then getting themselves out of it.
I think that your story would have qualified.
Mike P.
Well-known member
I remember those reports with McRat and other of the 90's crew, The 8:15 start was a bit late, my two attempts started at 3:30 and 4:30. One trip in each direction and both times down Twin Brook. On the Counter Clock when I reached S. Twin which was my 2nd trip, I knew Garfield and up Lafayette wasn't happening so I did the easy trip to North Twin and Galehead. Re-reading your trip made me think heading down Twin Brook was the right choice for me.
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nartreb
Well-known member
Of course, I wasn't particularly well-prepared. No bivy equipment to speak of, lackadaisical preparation (lack of fitness and, notably, failure to carefully study the map in advance, with regard to bailout options), late start, terrible food/water management -- plenty of suboptimal decisions in addition to the usual speed-vs-equipment tradeoff, and some of those decisions compounded each other. It was no big deal in the end because a) I did manage to get off the ridgeline while preserving a sufficient margin of energy, warmth, and wits and b) summer conditions were fairly benign -- even weathering the storm above treeline probably wouldn't have killed me.
jfb
Active member
I probably would have carried an extra sweater, spent the night at the Garfield shelter and finished the next day.
I suspect not one person's opinion has changed an iota from this dialogue, and it is what it is. A member of the party that had someone slide down the Tripyramids South Slide wrote the folowing:
This story is going to make it on here on way or another, so might as well be me. I was one of the "hiking companions" mentioned in the story. A few extra details below, but first, this: I always carry emergency gear with me during the winter. I can’t count the number of times a passing hiker asks me “camping out tonight?” because my bag appears full. Nobody plans to get hurt (we certainly didn’t this day) but you can be prepared in the event someone does get hurt (yourself or another hiker). The margin for error is so low in winter – being immobilized can mean a night on the trail, which can mean death. Between the three of us, we carried: snowshoes (worn), strap-on crampons, ice axes, 2 sleeping bags (a 0⁰ and a 20⁰), 3 sleeping pads, emergency layers (bivy parka), a stove/fuel, a length of rope and a bivy bag. My hiking companions and I are AMC Winter Hiking leaders, lead winter hiking trips with large groups relatively often and carry this kind of gear on every hike.
From the NHF&G accident report:
"The group was well equipped and had all the winter mountaineering gear that would be expected for a hike in winter conditions."
This story is going to make it on here on way or another, so might as well be me. I was one of the "hiking companions" mentioned in the story. A few extra details below, but first, this: I always carry emergency gear with me during the winter. I can’t count the number of times a passing hiker asks me “camping out tonight?” because my bag appears full. Nobody plans to get hurt (we certainly didn’t this day) but you can be prepared in the event someone does get hurt (yourself or another hiker). The margin for error is so low in winter – being immobilized can mean a night on the trail, which can mean death. Between the three of us, we carried: snowshoes (worn), strap-on crampons, ice axes, 2 sleeping bags (a 0⁰ and a 20⁰), 3 sleeping pads, emergency layers (bivy parka), a stove/fuel, a length of rope and a bivy bag. My hiking companions and I are AMC Winter Hiking leaders, lead winter hiking trips with large groups relatively often and carry this kind of gear on every hike.
From the NHF&G accident report:
"The group was well equipped and had all the winter mountaineering gear that would be expected for a hike in winter conditions."
egilbe
Member
Why not start another thread? My GF and I talked about this incident yesterday when we were hiking up Pleasant Mountain in Denmark/Bridgton. The only think I can think to criticize is standing too close to the edge of the slide. There's a reason I stay 10 feet away from edges if I can.
jfb
Active member
If two sleeping bags and a bivy parka were acceptable for three hikers, then I conclude that a bivy parka is equivalent to a sleeping bag.
ChrisB
Well-known member
Because the endless posting of accident reports is certainly fun for the bored individual who gets to do it first, but we never get to address a larger issue, as we are doing here. These three people had a pad each, and enough bags for an injured person, a non-injured person staying with him, and a stove to keep them warm and hydrated while the third left the cellphone dead zone to get help. That is what "adequate" looks like.
JFB wrote, "If two sleeping bags and a bivy parka were acceptable for three hikers, then I conclude that a bivy parka is equivalent to a sleeping bag." They had a pad for an injured person, a sleeping bag for an injured person, and a stove. If you are hiking alone, and you will be the injured person, that means you should be carrying a pad, a sleeping bag, and a stove. Since you are now injured and cannot move, and may be in a cellphone dead zone, I hope you are carrying a SPOT as well. I am not certain how you can read what they wrote and conclude anything less, unless you are rationalizing.
Mike P.
Well-known member
Crampons on sitting in the armchair so I can play armchair hiker....
In an emergency, could you have got two people in a sleeping bag? Probably, warm but very uncomfortable. SAR said they had all the gear so I'm good with that and other than the injured hiker who was rescued, there was no mention in the F&G report of others needing treatment due to being out longer than planned or stationary while not hiking.
We never have enough information to get every question answered.
Like:
was our 69 year old over his head/past his prime for descending part of the slide in order to get to the Kate Sleeper junction? (Chomp and I went up the south slide decades ago in mid-December and when a small group from here did the Tri's in actual winter we did Sabbaday and out the way you came in.) We continue to see a few people go down Flume Slide in winter in the trail conditions reports and they make it, I'm not saying the South Tri Slide is not doable and considering you lowered the injured hiker that way and no one got hurt, it's obviously doable. It's still a pretty exposed place, any slip or bad foot placement ends like this or worse.
Was our 69 year old hiker tired and therefore a little sloppy? At that point, after all the climbing, he may have been a little lax in stepping firmly into the ice or maybe the ice was just covered by a little snow and an unknown hazard? what was the footwear, Snowshoes, Micro's or Crampons? With the sun the South Slide gets, it's likely to have more melting and freezing and therefore more ice that the wooded sections of the trip.
Again, I don't think there is anything really to look at with the slight, possible exception of doing a trip they once did and no longer can do/should do. (If he's really active and in good shape, I'm wrong.) Wishing Rob a speedy recovery!
jfb
Active member
I think a sleeping bag with arms and legs would be a good compromise.
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