You Vill PAY.

[Tim Seaver]

Just noticed this sign stapled to a tree on at the base of the Falling Waters Trail.

Can't say I remember seeing this one before - is this part of the new campaign (to get people hiking in Maine and VT)?

Nice job on reversing the colors, so that the "YOU WILL PAY THE COSTS" text will flash like a marquee in your mind as you ponder your buddies heart condition or broken leg.

There will be hell to pay for this nickle-squeezing, short-sighted approach to helping people in trouble in the mountains.

 

[Quietman]

Wow! I try very hard to stay out of the billing debates, but....

So if I'm a little overweight, and hiking to try to get some exercise to get in shape, and have a heart attack while hiking, I will get billed because they decide that I was not "Physically fit"?

Almost as ambigious is the "Proficient in outdoor skills" statement.

I understand the intent, but this is misguided at best. I am very interested to hear what the rescue groups have to say about this one.

 

[Andrew]

This sign has been around for at least 7 years, maybe 10. Put quite a few up on kiosks in the past myself.

 

[JacobH]

I didn't put it there.

But I did blaze the crap out of it in hopes people would stop getting lost.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

But I did blaze the crap out of it in hopes people would stop getting lost.

Much appreciated I'm sure. The last time I was on Falling Waters (Sept) it struck me how many places there were in the first mile or two for people to take a wrong turn, especially since this is one of the most heavily used trails in the Whites. Once you cross the brook for the last time and work your way towards the drainage to the south it becomes much more intuitively obvious.

 

[Remix]

That sign defines the whole problem pretty well. Everything is undefined. There should be a brochure and checklist with answers to all those questions, especially a list of required equipment and skills. And they should clarify the physically fit point- are you negligent if you have a body mass index over such and such or just if you get too tired to get back to the car and need to be assisted. Just telling someone to go to a web site doesn't cut it.

 

[sierra]

Things happen when people go into the mountains, sometimes those things can be bad. While I think an educational approach to ward off some of the accidents is prudent, signs like this do little to help. Think about it, who is going to see the sign, realize they dont cut the mustard, then turn around and go home? answer- nobody.

 

[spider solo]

I tend to look at those signs as collectors items, though I suppose I shouldn't.
I think they might want to try the old "Welcome to NH Now Go Away" seems to be about the same message, maybe same author...?

 

[SherpaWill]

Just curious if they are going to ask you all those question if you need to be rescued.

 

[sierra]

I tend to look at those signs as collectors items, though I suppose I shouldn't.
I think they might want to try the old "Welcome to NH Now Go Away" seems to be about the same message, maybe same author...?

Thats funny, remember those signs when they closed the forest during the big hurricane, there might be one in my workshop. Oh and my bedroom is posted as a RUA.

 

[Dave Bear]

The new "improved" version of the sign would break down all the "Do you have ..." items so you can be further regulated by folks that are likely not even avid hikers! Reminds me of when a young ranger first told me the Monadnock summit was closed as I stood looking at it from up on the ridge. When I insisted I wanted to continue to go up for sunset she asked if I had a headlamp. When I said yes she asked "What brand?" Lucky for me, I guess, that it was something she recognized!

The more "rights" we feed to those that want to regulate our pasttime the less we will have to just go and do it!

 

[Remix]

The new "improved" version of the sign would break down all the "Do you have ..." items so you can be further regulated by folks that are likely not even avid hikers! Reminds me of when a young ranger first told me the Monadnock summit was closed as I stood looking at it from up on the ridge. When I insisted I wanted to continue to go up for sunset she asked if I had a headlamp. When I said yes she asked "What brand?" Lucky for me, I guess, that it was something she recognized!

The more "rights" we feed to those that want to regulate our pasttime the less we will have to just go and do it!

I dont mind requirements if they are not designed to generate revenue. With scuba, we have to do training and get a c-card. Get more than 10 feet away from a kayak launch on the Hudson and you need a whistle. If you are a boater, you need to carry certain equipment and know certain procedures; in Connecticut you need to take an 8 hr course.

I have heard more than once that the rangers at Monadnock actually inspect headlamps.

I also remember threads on this board discussing a certain ranger in the Adirondacks who would demand that people show them the contents of their packs.

These are the kind of things that are pro-active. Unfortunately the situation in New Hampshire seems to be more of funding problem than a preventing-rescues-before-they-are-needed type of problem.

I think a brochure with an actual check list of required equipment, skills, and information (current NWS weather forecast) would alleviate the perception that FG is hunting for negligence to solve its funding problem.

 

[spider solo]

............I have heard more than once that the rangers at Monadnock actually inspect headlamps.

I also remember threads on this board discussing a certain ranger in the Adirondacks who would demand that people show them the contents of their packs.

These are the kind of things that are pro-active. Unfortunately the situation in New Hampshire seems to be more of funding problem than a preventing-rescues-before-they-are-needed type of problem.

I think a brochure with an actual check list of required equipment, skills, and information (current NWS weather forecast) would alleviate the perception that FG is hunting for negligence to solve its funding problem.

others could just look at it as harassment.
Required gear to walk and hike in the woods would not seem enforceable or workable. It's kind of spooky that things could go that extreme.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

... the perception that FG is hunting for negligence to solve its funding problem.

Excellent phrase - thanks. You've been able to label a nebulous perception.

 

[Dave Bear]

I dont mind requirements if they are not designed to generate revenue. With scuba, we have to do training and get a c-card. Get more than 10 feet away from a kayak launch on the Hudson and you need a whistle. If you are a boater, you need to carry certain equipment and know certain procedures; in Connecticut you need to take an 8 hr course.

I have heard more than once that the rangers at Monadnock actually inspect headlamps.

I also remember threads on this board discussing a certain ranger in the Adirondacks who would demand that people show them the contents of their packs.

These are the kind of things that are pro-active. Unfortunately the situation in New Hampshire seems to be more of funding problem than a preventing-rescues-before-they-are-needed type of problem.

I think a brochure with an actual check list of required equipment, skills, and information (current NWS weather forecast) would alleviate the perception that FG is hunting for negligence to solve its funding problem.

She was actually surprised that I had two and spare batteries so I informed her it was not my first time out! Certs and gear list do make others aware that you have heard about how things are done but not necessarily put you in the realm of proficient. FG does its share of licensing and training and we still see instances every year where those they certify get lost or hurt or worse. From what I have seen in New England in my lifetime is that a "current weather forecast" is looking up and seeing what's coming down or sideways at you! If someone out in the woods is going to cast an evaluation on our abilities based on a snapshot opinion of the weather from a newsroom we will be in a sad state. I would rather a discussion with a ranger ask/quiz me to be sure I understood the changing conditions and whether I had equipment to counter what conditions were current or approaching. A ranger usually has a much better avenue of communication and if they choose are able to be a supporting resource to those out on the trail. We all undertand that they have marching orders and are/need to be an authority figure out there but there is also a time for them to help promote good trail sense and encourage rather than threaten those that share the woods. A lot can be said for proper tone and attitude in reaching this goal!