Zealand Trail Moose Attack Warning

[griffin]

Common sense isn't so common.

Doug

Agreed. And we've all also probably come across misinformation that's been handed down as "common sense."

Having the AMC alert people staying at Zealand, and putting a sign at the trailhead (because other people do use those trails) should do the trick.

 

[Stan]

Just go wide around the moose!

Here here to that sensibility! I've seen lots of moose and they do the same for me.

Wildlife observation is a big part of my enjoyment of hiking. I like to prolong that joy when it happens. Part of it is understanding the animal, a lot to be learned from hunters in that regard.

Naw. Don't close the trail, just post a notice to help educate people and inform hikers of some unusual, but perhaps predictable under the circumstances, behavior.

 

[1HappyHiker]

Here here to that sensibility! I've seen lots of moose and they do the same for me.

Agree completely . . . but with the caveat that moose (like people) have different personalities (some friendly, and others . . . maybe not so much). But, that being said, just like Stan's experience, thus far the moose I’ve encountered while hiking have either just stood and looked on with idle curiosity (as I walked a wide path around them), or they’ve merely sauntered away from me as I approached.

One moose encounter was mildly amusing. While bushwhacking in some moderately thick brush, I looked up and saw a moose nearly right in my face. We were both startled, and we both backed away from each other . . . in unison! Then, the moose slowly trotted off in one direction, as I trotted off (a bit more quickly) in the opposite direction! And, I’m sure that just like I’m doing, the moose is surely re-telling its story as well! (maybe on VFTA . . . Views from the Antler)

 

[rocket21]

And, I’m sure that just like I’m doing, the moose is surely re-telling its story as well! (maybe on VFTA . . . Views from the Antler)

Username: 1HappyBullwinkle

 

[rocket21]

As an update, I just heard that Fish & Game has posted some moose warning signs.

 

[Andrew]

Should this thread had been more appropriately titled "Humans trespass moose habitat & get in the way of hungry agitated moose".

 

[walker]

Does a moose read the Sunday Times in the Woods?

Moose live in the woods....Humans visit the woods.......Humans leave the woods and go home......Moose live in the woods.........

If anything need to be relocated, relocate the humans to a less wildlife enhanced area.

Come on people...Isn't this way we go into the woods?

See you on the trail....Walker

 

[Fish&Game]

Zealand Falls Trail moose

As an update, I just heard that Fish & Game has posted some moose warning signs.

Hi everybody,

Once we at Fish and Game got wind of the moose situation on the Zealand Falls Trail, we worked with the Forest Service and AMC folks to put up signs to let people know there's an aggressive moose on the trail...I'm attaching one of the signs, and the text for the other is pasted below (PDF too big to post).

You as a group are correct that the moose is just being a moose! That said, moose that exhibit aggressive behavior are likely to show it again in a similar situation. (Nice flat trail, difficult walking off the trail, crowds coming at me from both sides?? Get me outta here!) So, hikers/skiers on that trail do need to use extreme caution until the moose finds a new place to hang out...or snowmelt makes travel a little easier for him.

Two comments:

1) When there's a situation like this, and people are saying, gee, somebody should tell Fish and Game, please consider telling Fish and Game! (And/or AMC, US Forest Service.) The phone number for our Wildlife division is (603) 271-2461, and our website is www.wildnh.com for more contact info. I'm not an active member/lurker on this forum -- a friend pointed this thread out to me. As far as I know, no one called to let us know about the moose.

2) Thanks for the good conversation. We really appreciate the respect and restraint that people are showing. There are a few people who would like to take a different action in this particular case, but if everybody stays smart and stays out of the moose's way, everything should be fine.

All best,
Liza Poinier
NH Fish and Game

Warning: Aggressive Moose in Area

An aggressive bull moose has been frequenting the Zealand Trail. While moose typically avoid human contact, you need to be particularly alert when in the area of the A-Z Split. You may be seen as a threat unless you give this moose plenty of space.

Moose are bigger and faster than any person and give little warning before attacking a perceived threat. No one should ever approach these animals no matter how tolerant they appear. Moose are unafraid, not friendly. A moose that decides someone has crossed into its "personal space" may knock down the offender and kick and stomp until the threat stops moving.​

 

[Mattl]

Well then you better post that sign every single fall in the White's then, because they tend to get a little aggravated about late September, especially away from peaks. That's just the way of nature, hes pissed off because he is trying to get through a tough winter and is using that area to stay in, then people keeping bothering him. I would be pissed off too. The trail makes it easy for him to walk. If you look at the interactive snow model, we have had a more consistant snow cover across the Whites and the state then in the last 6 years, yes even last year. Last year put us over the top in March, but for Feb 24, we have more on the ground now. Just be aware of nature when you go out, and know that we are entering their territory.

-Mattl

 

[Fish&Game]

Thanks, Matt. We don't want, or need, to go nutty with the posting - this ain't Yellowstone. This is an unusual situation, given snow depths, as you point out. We (and many of the posters on this list) believed that the trailhead poster would be a good idea -- and sufficient in this place, at this time. Liza P.

 

[giggy]

Well then you better post that sign every single fall in the White's then, because they tend to get a little aggravated about late September, especially away from peaks. That's just the way of nature, hes pissed off because he is trying to get through a tough winter and is using that area to stay in, then people keeping bothering him. I would be pissed off too. The trail makes it easy for him to walk. If you look at the interactive snow model, we have had a more consistant snow cover across the Whites and the state then in the last 6 years, yes even last year. Last year put us over the top in March, but for Feb 24, we have more on the ground now. Just be aware of nature when you go out, and know that we are entering their territory.

-Mattl

seriously - cut the crap with this nonsense about the moose and the weather and the record snow and god knows what else with the panic button - they are doing their job and quite well by putting up a sign - this allows hikers make the call whether head in and deal with the situation - or go hike somewhere else. May not matter to you - but might matter to a family with 2 young kids.

Zealand is a popular destination and not everyone is a rough and tough outdoorsman that knows everything about the woods. Some people just want to get the fck away from their weekday lives and get a hike in. Fish and game is informing... whats the problem and letting people know the situation - its not normal - becuase we now have 5 pages of threads on analyzing the situation.

this is 2009 - the fact is not everyone is hiking 7 days a week and is an expert on everything...most of us need advice from fish and game sometimes...maybe the guy taking his 7 year old on a snowshoe hike appreciates the fact he is being informed and will go hike mt willard instead..

 

[Mattl]

If I disagree it gives you no right to attack me Giggy, many people on here have stated similar in terms of a sign and I can state my opinion. Get off your ridiculously high horse thinking you can post what you want and it won't matter because your "giggy". I was stating the snow depth because that can aggrivate the moose and cause why he is acting this way. Any FYI, Zealand is a prime moose area, one of the best in the area because of the hooblebush in summer and bogs, they are concentrating in that area, one needs to expect that. I am not hitting a panic button, just informing people, go take your negativity elsewhere, cause all you do is post that way when someone post something you don't like, and im sick of it.

-Mattl

 

[rocket21]

I have mixed feelings on the signage matter. I have encountered moose on many trails throughout New Hampshire - my guess is that a similar situation could have happened anywhere else, had someone else been approaching from the other direction.

From a legal perspective, I do find concern in posting signs for such an issue, unless perhaps there's some sort of protocol behind it. One worry I have is that naive (for a lack of better term) hikers may think that trails without such warning signs are safe and thus may try to sue the AMC, F&G, etc. if something happens. It sounds a bit far fetched, but I've also heard the story about someone who, after hitting a moose near a moose crossing sign, asked the responding police officer why the moose crossing couldn't be moved elsewhere.

I spent a lot of time working in the ski industry. That is a prime example of warnings and disclaimers becoming so excessive that they've lost their meaning and effectiveness.

That said, in the very least, I do think it would be a nice gesture if the AMC were to warn upcoming hut guests about the moose and perhaps be understanding (I don't know what their cancellation policy is) if it's enough for a guest to cancel.

 

[David Metsky]

Moderator Hat:
Giggy and Mattl - Both of you, cool it. If you have problems with other posters take it to the moderators in PMs, not on the board.
Moderator Hat off

 

[Jaytrek57]

Just curious....

Liza P....are you posting officially for F&G? And is it just about this matter (moose)?

I think more information (on-this site) is great and adds to discussions.

Jay

 

[griffin]

I have mixed feelings on the signage matter. I have encountered moose on many trails throughout New Hampshire - my guess is that a similar situation could have happened anywhere else, had someone else been approaching from the other direction.

If this were a one-off, I'd agree with you, but since we seem to be looking at multiple encounters in a fairly short time span, I think it's warranted.

There's always a chance of rain/storms, right? But don't we still appreciate knowing if rain and storms are forecast? (imperfect analogy, I know)

One worry I have is that naive (for a lack of better term) hikers may think that trails without such warning signs are safe and thus may try to sue the AMC, F&G, etc.

There are certainly people boneheaded enough to do something like that, I think the incidence of law suits like this is much, much lower than legend would have it. Even if someone did sue under those circumstances, there's ample precedence for suits like that being thrown out.

Yes, a family once did sue either the Forest Service or F & G when their daughter died in a skiing accident in Tucks. They claimed the lack of warning signs lead her to believe she was safe. Outrageous, but the important thing to remember is that they lost.

(I don't know if the AMC is alerting guests about the moose, but I'd bet it would act as a draw and not a deterent if they did so)

 

[rocket21]

There are certainly people boneheaded enough to do something like that, I think the incidence of law suits like this is much, much lower than legend would have it. Even if someone did sue under those circumstances, there's ample precedence for suits like that being thrown out.

Indeed, such a case would likely be thrown out (as are most major cases against ski areas). The issue, however, is that it still costs money to fight said lawsuits and sometimes, even if the plantiff is in the wrong, defendents may settle, as it is cheaper than fighting and winning.

I think some sort of protocol might be a good thing - if X incident happens, then X warning is posted for X duration.

 

[mookie]

As mentioned, the Moose may try to stomp you, probably by kicking and or butting you to the ground. Good luck!

perhaps a medieval armour suit?

 

[--M.]

Thank you to New Hampshire Fish & Game Department's "Liza P." for your apparently official communication. I appreciate your work on our behalf and for the moose & other wildlife.

Speaking for myself only, I agree with posting a notice in the affected area and otherwise taking a minimalist approach.

If I should see something that I think deserves your attention, I'll let you know; thanks again for posting.

--Mike

 

[David Metsky]

Focus, people. Let's focus. I've deleted a bunch of humorous but off topic posts in the thread. Please try to keep your comments related to the issue at hand.