XCountry Skiis

Ha'y'all Doin'?

I'd like to get cross country skis. Where do I begin? What's a good kind to get? Should I go with a package deal? Money is ALWAYS an issue.

Thanks.

I'm no expert. I've had "3 pin" gear for years and recently pieced together an Alpine Touring (Randonee) set. Those "in the know" will ask what type of skiing you'll want to do; cross country, backcountry, telemark, randonee, etc.

Look in the usual places, Goodwill, Salvation Army, or Uncle Henry's if you're local to upper New England (I have no idea of where the "Gold Coast" is). I have found many sets there ranging from $3 to $20, for some pretty nice skis and boots. Many times they don't know what they have, I just scored some adjustable "ski poles" (Leki's) for $2 that someone had put with all the ski stuff.

After that I'd look to the ski stores themselves and ask for trade-in models or last year's leftovers, you can often fine decent gear very inexpensively that way.

One word though, don't scrimp on the boots. I have often passed over a 'deal' on skis because the boots weren't just right.

If you're a novice at skiing and don't know what type you'll be doing, look for an inexpensive set that wont require a lot of maintenance (waxing and/or setup), and don't get too caught up on length the first time out, you can do that with the next set of skis once you get more familiar with them.

First identify what kind of skiing you are interested in. Will you be skiing in set tracks at a X-C area? Wandering into woods on you own? Skate skiing for exercise?

Second, as was said above, don't skimp on the boots. There are several different incompatible boot/binding systems so once you buy the boots you are somewhat locked in. For regular X-C you there are two main standards, NNN and SNS. Each has a beefier (and further incompatible) version for backcountry skiing. Once you decided what kind of skiing you plan on doing, try the boots that match that type of skiing and spend time finding something that fits well.

Finally, shop for skis. To start I'd recommend waxless. If you decide that you want to get the most out of skiing I'd eventually go with waxable, but that's down the road.

I'd start with a good local ski shop rather then Goodwill and ski swaps. Intro packages aren't that expensive. You can even rent gear at a local ski area to try them out for a day. Once you know a bit more you can then peruse eBay and Goodwill for bargains on your growing quiver of skis.

RENT several different kinds
TAKE a lesson or two
THIRD (I will third) the suggestion of spending the $ on boots first. NNN2 and Salomon SNS Profile are two pretty prevalent binding systems -- 3pins are a bit dated these days. Pilot bindings are all the rage for skating.

I am very (very very) partial to Waterville Valley. They have at least 2 if not 3 demo days per year -- go during those days and you can try out a variety of equipment.

As a further data point, I am primarily a skater - and I have two setups:

Fischer MLS + Salomon boots SC9.1 and bindings (SNS Profile)

Salomon Equipe 10 + Fischer boots + Salomon Pilot bindings

The SC9.1 boots have a removal plastic cuff which increases stiffness for skating but can be removed for trad.

Waxless skis are fine for an introductory arrangement but if you're at all serious you will quickly want waxables. Waxing a ski properly is part of the experience. Those first few strides and great glide will make you smile (or not) as you realize you nailed (or not) the wax -- and for recreation skiing, you need pretty much 2 or 3 temps of glide wax (skating) and (for trad) 2 or 3 temps of kick wax plus universal klister -- I won't trad ski if it is klister conditions because that means very fast skating. I only wax trad ski when there is fresh, soft powder. Otherwise I skate.

I should point out that I don't venture off the groomed trails -- hardly ever.

Tim

I think you need to also identify what types of trips you are planning for. Flat, tracked low-level skiing or mountain trips? I prefer 3-pin because I can use the same boots for x-country as well as tele. The boots are a bit beefy for x-country, so I don't do much. However, if I want some control on a downhill my Scarpa T3's work great. Also, I can use the same boots fitted with crampons to summit, then use the boards to ski down.

Edited...just realized Dave said something similar...

bikehikeskifish said:

NNN2 and Salomon SNS Profile are two pretty prevalent binding systems -- 3pins are a bit dated these days.

Click to expand...

Just like to note that while the manufacturers and stores may consider 3-pin to be a bit dated, many of us still prefer them for BC use. The 3-pin boots and bindings available today tend to be a bit beefier than the non-3-pin gear.

IndianChris:
I agree with Dave and dug--the first questions to be answered are what kind of skiing do you want to do and what is your skill level?

Doug

DougPaul said:

IndianChris:
I agree with Dave and dug--the first questions to be answered are what kind of skiing do you want to do and what is your skill level?

Doug

Click to expand...

IF you gotta ask, then I would assume minimal skill level. So, how did most of us get started? Probably either by renting, or with a pair of hand-me-downs.

Peaks said:

IF you gotta ask, then I would assume minimal skill level. So, how did most of us get started? Probably either by renting, or with a pair of hand-me-downs.

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That also occurred to me, however I figured I'd give IndianChris speak for himself.

The best advice could be go to a commercial XC area, rent some skis, take some lessons, and then ask again. (Or take an AMC beginner workshop, etc.)

Doug

HOLY SHIIIIIIII......
I had no idea.

I'll be back with some more info.

Off the top of my head, I'd like a pair that's good for everything but I guess it's like anything else, kayaks, bikes, boots, etc...I'll need to narrow it down a bit I suppose.

DM...What is skate skiing? How is that different than skiing in an area with set tracks? I like the idea of wandering into the woods/mountians with the skiis as well.

wait until after xmas

I think the outfitters like REI would have sales after xmas, or certainly at the end of the season. You might rent a few times at the ski areas, trying a couple of brands, wait for the sales and then buy.

I really suggest buying new, unlike some other posters here. The whole package for xc skiing (boots, poles, binding, poles) really isn't that expensive, and will last you years and years, and you needn't worry if there is any hidden damage.

I grew up with waxables, and still use them and prefer that, just for fun. But these days most casual skiiers go with the waxless because you don't need to fuss with the wax and you can go in a broader range of conditions. (I still think waxables are smoother and faster/more responsive.)

Dependable reliable brands include the usual suspects--I've used various Fischers over the years.

Have fun!

bikehikeskifish said:

3pins are a bit dated these days.

. . .

I should point out that I don't venture off the groomed trails -- hardly ever.

Tim

Click to expand...

And therein lies the tale.

IMO, the only plastic part on an off-trail ski should be the base surface. (EDIT: OK, with the obvious exclusion of the beefier telemark bindings.) Yes, I know lots of folks are fans of the BC NNN. I ain't one of them.

pinnah's excellent Dave's Nordic Backcountry Skiing Page is still a good place to start.

IndianChris said:

HOLY SHIIIIIIII......
I had no idea.

I'll be back with some more info.

Click to expand...

No offense, but I think you just said that you are a beginner...

Off the top of my head, I'd like a pair that's good for everything but I guess it's like anything else, kayaks, bikes, boots, etc...I'll need to narrow it down a bit I suppose.

Click to expand...

No such ski.

DM...What is skate skiing? How is that different than skiing in an area with set tracks? I like the idea of wandering into the woods/mountians with the skiis as well.

Click to expand...

The basic propulsive movement is like ice or roller skating--you push off the edges. Generally only doable on prepared trails at a ski area.

Traditional or diagonal stride keeps the skis parallel and uses a specialized long stride for propulsion. The propulsion comes from a pattern (that slides forward, but not backward) on a waxless ski and by the properties of the wax (high static friction, low dynamic friction) on a waxable ski.

From your comment, it looks like a BC ski might be appropriate. BC skis can be used on a prepared track, but they will not be as good as a track ski. (Track skis tend to be narrower and lighter than BC skis.)

Sardog's link to Dave.M's pages on ski gear are a very good place to get an overview of ski gear. His focus is gear for BC skiing. http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/dirtbag.html

Doug

Sardog and Doug beat me to it, but Pinnah's site is where I started when I was looking for my first pair of skis. These sites are also good for bc and tele info-
www.wildsnow.com
www.telemarktips.com

There are literally dozens of choices in skis and boots and several binding choices in terms of type such as 3 pin (75mm), system bindings such as Salomon SNS or Rottefella NNN, AT bindings or even the new NTN binding. It all depends on what kind of skiing you will be doing.

I bought metal edged Atomic Rainier skis, am getting new 3 pin Voile cable bindings with the release kit to replace my old 3 pin cables, and have an Atomic bc boot. I think my gear would be considered "bc lite" gear. More than a track ski, but not a heavy duty tele ski or boot combo.

IndianChris said:

HOLY SHIIIIIIII......
I had no idea.

I'll be back with some more info.

Off the top of my head, I'd like a pair that's good for everything but I guess it's like anything else, kayaks, bikes, boots, etc...I'll need to narrow it down a bit I suppose.

DM...What is skate skiing? How is that different than skiing in an area with set tracks? I like the idea of wandering into the woods/mountians with the skiis as well.

Click to expand...

Sounds like, to me, a 3-pin binding on a backcountry metal-edged touring ski with something like a Scarpa T3 boot would be a good idea. The boots may be a bit overkill, but they are well rounded enough to cover the bases the best. They will satisfy the "in the woods" protection you need, and will give you control should you need it.

carla said:

The whole package for xc skiing (boots, poles, binding, poles) really isn't that expensive

Click to expand...

Depends on how you define expensive. I dropped $500+ after a 40% year-end discount on Salomon Equipe 10s, Fischer Boots, Salomon Pilot bindings and Swix CT3 composite poles. That's more than I paid for my alpine equipment.

What I would do is rent until March and if you like it then you'll have an idea of what you want and take advantage of the end-of-year discounts.

Here is a brief video description of the skating technique: http://www.rsn.com/ram_file/201025.ram There used to be some WC video out there which you can't get in the land of the NFL, NBA and MLB, but rather only in Europe where XC and Cycling are huge. The video will at least give you an idea of how it works, really briefly. Skating is fast and is excellent cross-training for cycling, and in-line skaters.

Tim

Definately try to wait until spring. I got hand-me-down skis and bindings to start out, and got a pair off boots in the spring at over 60% off. I've since got all my 'own' gear, but off-season is the way to go when starting out.

Sierra Trading Post is a good place to look for skis and boots. I bought my skis from them for $60 shipped brand new. You have to look often and buy when you see what you want. Other outlet sites may have similar deals, but it takes constant looking to find them.

dug said:

Sounds like, to me, a 3-pin binding on a backcountry metal-edged touring ski with something like a Scarpa T3 boot would be a good idea. The boots may be a bit overkill, but they are well rounded enough to cover the bases the best. They will satisfy the "in the woods" protection you need, and will give you control should you need it.

Click to expand...

Agreed. Also that the T3 might be a bit much. There are a number of over-the-ankle leather boots that might be a bit more appropriate for NE BC use.
eg.
http://www.rei.com/product/715700ht...n=PROD&Product_Code=4357&Category_Code=bcboot
http://www.akers-ski.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=45KS&Category_Code=bcboot

Doug

For all you BC/3-pin folks, do keep in mind the title of the post said "XCountry", not "BCountry" or "Telemark" All of the important parts of my NNN2 (I have an old pair of trad waxless), SNS Profile, and Pilot bindings are metal. They are housed in plastic to keep the snow out, and the part where the 'rest' of the boot (outside the toe/binding) rides for weight savings. Never had a problem. One pair (Fischer MLS + SNS Profile - now my rock skis) have begun their 11th season.

Tim-Yes-I-love-skate-skiing-more-than-any-other-kind-of-skiing