Intoducing new dog to hiking?

Introducing a new dog to hiking?

Our vet came to our home last week and put our 14+ year old Springer to sleep after her last romp in the backyard with our son and his dog. Knowing her end was near, we've been looking for another pooch and are picking up a 10 week old chocolate lab this Saturday.

I've alway said that I loved dogs, but dislike owner's allowing rude trail manners and want to get our new girl off to a good start.
Would anyone have some tips on how and when to start her? Since labs are fairly good sized dogs, at what point this year can she start hiking and when can she start on trails with climbing? We've been advised by many breeders that due to completion of their growth plates, labs should not be taken on runs until over 18 months old and am wondering how that might apply to mountain hiking.
Do you use flexi-leashes or solid ones?

Thanks,

PB

My condolences on the loss of your Springer. You showed your love for her in your final decision, which I've had to make several times myself. Keep the pictures and videos at hand -- reliving the memories will actually help, not hurt.

As for the puppy, I'd start immediately with training some trail etiquette. This includes (1) coming when called, (2) following behind you at obstacles, (3) sit stay, and (4) down stay. All of these things can be done with a very young puppy, if you use positive reinforcement from your praise, play, and/or food treats. Use only an absolute minimum of force or other negative reinforcement. Find places where there are other people and dogs, and reward her for coming to you when you encounter them. Don't work too much on precise heeling right now, unless you need it for something else. She will be inclined to follow at your heels at this stage; exploit that urge now and you'll have an easier time of it when she gets older and bolder.

You'll want a treat bag or ball on your belt or pocket whenever you're training. You can use part of her measured daily ration as the treat if you're feeding dry food; this helps maintain proper weight. As she matures, keep the weight optimal. Once past the fat puppy stage, she should be lean enough to feel but not see her ribs. Overweight dogs suffer joint problems as a result, just like humans.

I use the Flexi for both training and hiking; it provides control and freedom simultaneously. A fixed length leash is hard to handle if it's long enough to keep the dog from underfoot.

The breeders gave you good advice on keeping her structural development in mind. She can go on mild walks with you right now, but she should not be jumping down from anything higher than her own height until she's well over a year old. If you watch slow motion video of a dog jumping down (e.g., at an obedience or agility trial), you'll realize how much force is transmitted into the forelimb joints. Clambering naturally over logs and low rocks is one thing. Downclimbing ledges is quite another. Running on pavement or hard ground is something I would stay away from generally, certainly until she's stopped growing her bones and other joint tissues.

Leash . . .

sardog1 said:

I use the Flexi for both training and hiking; it provides control and freedom simultaneously. A fixed length leash is hard to handle if it's long enough to keep the dog from underfoot.

Click to expand...

I use a 15 ft training lead made up of 5/8 in wide nylon webbing, hand loop sewn on one end, snap & swivel on the other. Simple, lightweight, elegant, reliable, infinitely adjustable in length out to its max.

G.

Peakbagr-

Sorry to hear about your loss, we had a springer, same age and recently had to do the same. One of the family...... She was a great hiker, climber in her days, I couldnt count the miles we've done.

I hope your new companion works out for you.

Sardog has great advice, we love springers, and now have another.... great dogs, full of ENERGY. She's in training as we speak, but I have one Q for sardog, how can we keep her from jumping past her height? She has a habit of taking a running leap off the deck, like springers do..boing!..and flies through air until impact!

She's 10 months old at this point.....any suggestions?

LD

Please accept my condolences on the loss of your dog. It's never an easy thing.

Dogs and Hiking, two of my favorite subjects. Where to start...

It sounds like you've done a decent amount of homework already, since you're aware of growth plates and possible orthopedic damage. Sardog1's suggestions are excellent. I think it's okay to see a little rib and even the hint of a vertebrae or two.

I would start getting a puppy out into the woods immediately. The trips should be short, full of fun and positive reinforcement. If you know the term "socializing", that's exactly what you want to start doing for anything you expect that Pup will be exposed to throughout her life (not just the woods but also tents, packs, snowshoes, etc). Praise the behaviors you want, ignore the ones you don't (such as praise for picking her own way through a tricky area, but ignore barking at other hikers). Although I've never gotten involved in agility (a timed obstacle course for dogs), some agility classes could be an excellent way to socialize Pup to moving around/through/on obstacles. A good Puppy Kindergarten class would be great, if you can find one. If you know a good hiker-dog, it'd be great if Pup could get out with them for short outings - dogs are good at learning from each other. Again, Sardog1's guidelines about beginning some training with recalls and such are excellent advice.

I use a plain 6' cotton web lead, though I've been thinking of going to a 10' for hiking. I don't like flexis for a few reasons: they break, they do not necessarily limit a dog's area properly, and they make leash training more difficult. Leash training is more difficult because the leash length varies, so Pup has difficulty in knowing what to expect. With a regular lead, they learn the length. I also practice doing "me first" and "you lead", which are cues to the dog that either I'm in front or they can be in front. I also try to get them into the habit of passing only on one side (by picking the side, then not letting them pass on the other side)

As for physical training, I've had dogs on the small side of giant for years. Since Pup is a lab, if you're near water, swimming is a great, low impact exercise to keep her in good physical condition and she can do as much as she likes at any age. Below are the guidelines I try to follow for hiking.
birth-6 months: mild exercise, playing. Avoid jumping down onto hard surfaces. Avoid slippery surfaces. Avoid splaying of the rear legs out to the sides. If Pup is laying frog-style (belly down, rear legs splayed), reposition her. Walks to be no more than 1/2 mile at a slow pace, no more than 4x/day, carry over any terrain that would involve jumping, easy scrambles are okay. Some people will carry the puppy down staircases at this age, especiall if there's not much traction. Begin introducing Pup to any equipment she might see in the future, such as booties, packs, harness straps. She doesn't have to walk in them, but she can get used to the feel of something on her body.
6-months to 1 year: still avoid jumping on hard surfaces and splaying of the rear legs. Walks may be up to 1 mile no more than 4x/day, and may involve medium-easy scrambles and small hops down. Walks may also become brisk.
1-2 years: Walks up to 5 miles allowed, length should vary with difficulty of terrain. Scrambling and easy hops allowed. Pace may become faster, keeping the dog at a trot rather than walk. Empty packs allowed.
2-3 years: Keep walks under 10 miles, challenging terrain allowed. Packs under 5 pounds (<5% body weight). Okay to begin runs under 5 miles.
3-4 years: Under 20 miles, depending on terrain (longer mileage allowed over easier terrain). Packs under 10% body weight. Runs under 10 miles.
>4 years: by now the dog should be completely physically mature. Any major joint/orthopedic problems should already have been detected. Mileage and terrain limited only by dog's capability. Packs <20% of body weight.
If you run daily, dogs should run no more than every other day.
Following this, I've had dogs that hiked every weekend with me, could do +30's, multi-day trips, and carry packs. With that said, it's important to keep them on a regular exercise regimen to keep them in hiking condition. None of my dogs have had (yet, knock on wood) any joint or orthopedic issues such as arthritis, dysplacia of hips or elbows, or osteophytes on the vertebrae.

Transition to a maintenance formula adult food at around 3 months. It'll help Pup grow more slowly which is thought to help prevent orthopedic problems.

I don't know if heart conditions are an issue with Labs, or an issue with the line Pup comes from, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to have the vet run an ECG one every couple of years to keep an eye out for murmurs, irregularties, etc. Some cardiac problems would preclude hiking/exercise.

Some of my favorite dog training books: Karen Pryor: Don't Shoot The Dog, Jean Donaldson: Culture Clash. Ian Dunbar and the Volhards usually have good stuff too. I have a couple of others too, but those are on the shelf at home and I can't find them on Amazon at the moment.

Best of luck!

Dugan,
Could you talk more about splaying of legs in pups. I have a Rottweiler that has done a lot of hiking. He is nine+ now and has slowed down some but still hikes just not to the degree he was able to up until a few years ago. He has sat frog-butt style since a very small pup. He has no hip or leg problems so far. My vet always told me not to correct him as he just happens to be flexible enough to lay like that. He never seems uncomfortable with it either. I believe he cools his belly this way. Is not letting him do it so he won't injure himself at the time or so that he doesn't injure himself in the future (like when he gets bigger or less flexible)? Thanks in advance.
Also, my condolences to PB.

Very sorry to hear about your dog. It's never easy to lose your "best friend".
I like my flexi leash for hiking and I would highly recommend getting pup into a good dog school, preferably one who uses the reward method. Puppy kidnergarden usually starts at age 3 months.
I took my Akita to classed for approx. 2yrs because they are a very stubborn breed and she responded very well to the reward program.
AS we progressed the dogs were not on leash and it was great because they had to learn to behave with multiple distractions.
I did one course that was just "recall".
Having seen the results I obtained using rewards vs other methods, I would never go back.
I will be getting a new Bernese Mountain Dog pup soon because my old fella died end of November and Kodi is desperate for a playmate.
Looking forward to having a new pup and all the excitement that he will bring. Nothing like seeing the world through a new pair of eyes.
You do have to be very careful those first 18 mo. that you don't overdue.
Sound advice from other dog lovers.

Thanks to everyone for the condolences here and in PMs. It means a lot.

I'm going to be very careful with mileage and effort for her. I've come to learn a little bit about labs. There are the English style, with the big, blocky head and stout bodies, and then the field strain. Our pup comes from field stock. They are taller, leaner, lighter. Hunting, retrieving, obedience, agility etc. The breeder says that when mature, when you get her dogs back to the car at the end of a long day, they look up at you as if to say, "what now"?
That said, she has no idea about the difference between 7-14 mountain miles and the same day running thru fields ahead of duck and pheasant hunters. I will say, though, it appears that she will be able to go all day when ready.

We were lucky with our old dog. She was a 40lb Springer and unknowingly, I used to run long distances with her starting around 7-8 months old. She loved it and thrived on it. Her vet always said the exercise was responsible for a heart like a power station pump, but we were lucky it didn't turn into orthopedic problems.

Lots of suburban woods and trails around here. She'll get lots of walking and I'll have to watch the temptation to let her join us too soon in the mountains.

adkleaddog said:

one Q for sardog, how can we keep her from jumping past her height? She has a habit of taking a running leap off the deck, like springers do..boing!..and flies through air until impact!

She's 10 months old at this point.....any suggestions?

LD

Click to expand...

Home Depot has green plastic fencing in rolls that you can staple to a deck. It doesn't look too bad and it will stop those heart-stopping launches off the deck. I put it up when my wife's new Border Terrier arrived. He flies off furniture like a fuzzy little bird. Great takeoff, but not much glide.

I'll second the recommendation for swimming. I consider swimming ability mandatory for any hiking dog, because stream crossings do come up often and you'll be busy enough keeping yourself upright. It's great exercise for any age dog, and it helps the older ones to maintain joint strength and muscle tone. It brought my nine-year-old GSD back from an early retirement.

If your dog doesn't like the water at first, don't force the issue. Find someone with a dog that's a water retrieving nut, then just keep throwing a ball or stick into the water (preferably along a shallow shore) and let the newbie see how much fun it can be. Let the newbie run loose along the shore and whine and finally test the water. Have another ball or stick ready for rewarding newbie's water entry and then each incrementally longer foray out. Be sure the water is not too cold for those first efforts. It helps if you can get into the water, at least shallow wading depth. Never, ever drag a dog into the water. (And if you throw a dog into the water as some advocate, I'm gonna come over and step on your neck.)

you will love that chocolate lab. I have a yellow one now but i had a chocolate before that. for some reason the chocolates seem to be more
relaxed and mind better. I started my yellow hiking at 6 months and no problem. she is 2 years now, but I am no expert. I agree that teaching the puppy to "come" and "stay" are important. I was on a remote trail with no cars in the parking lotlast winter when she was 1 year old. Thought i had trail to myself so let her off the leash. Out of no wear came a 65 year old lady and before I could controll her she was jumping on the woman.y calls of come went unherd. The lady was unhurt but very angry (I don't blame her, it was my fault). Now she is 2 years old and minds much better, but is always on a retractable leash. teach the dog to come and stay and you shouldn't have much problem.

Splayed rear legs: There are some who think this can overly stretch or even tear soft tissues, leading to greater join laxity, and hence to hip dysplacia. As far as I'm aware, splayed rear legs have neither been proven or debunked. This belief seems to be more prevalent in some breeds than others. Also, a diagnosis of some degree of hip dysplacia isn't necessarily serious. Some dogs never develop any symptoms, despite having some laxity. No one is quite sure why hip dysplacia occurs, or whether there is a genetic component.

I wish I'd thought of plastic fencing. I used chicken wire and fence staples. Sardog1: for the terrier, could you put a trampoline under his landing zone?! Firmly anchored throw rugs, or sections of indoor/outdoor carpeting, can help eliminate slippery surfaces in common landing areas, like staircase landings. Also, for winter travel, I leave dog toe nails a bit longer than in the summer. It seems to help as a sort of natural crampon.

Agree with Sardog1 about introducing the dog to water: do it safely and gradually. I once had a Great Pyrenees (not a water breed) who, as a pup, was watching two Lab friends launching themselves off a dock to retrieve boat bumpers. At that point, he was beginning to swim after wading in from shore. Before I knew what was happening, he decided to follow the labs off the dock into deep water where he promptly discovered he was in over his head (literally and figuratively). He splashed around a bit and managed to make it back to shore without help, but he never went in any deeper than his mid-chest after that. Very good point about using no force, I think it applies to just about anything you want the dog to like - entice, encourage, and praise. It may take longer, but you'll end up with a happier pooch.

This is a good dog thread. I had to have my 14-year-old Lab put down over a year ago, and haven't much felt like it was time for another yet... but I'm weakening. I want to take my next dog on some hikes with me, so I'll read these replies for advice.

We're picking the lab pup up tomorrow morning. It feels like being a kid on Christmas morning we're so excited.
If there is a currency of advice we're receiving here and elsewhere: don't take them running until the growth plates are fully developed, which in a lab is 18 months to 2 years.
Be careful when you take them mountain hiking.

Both of these will be difficult, but we'll be following them.

Mazel tov!

Peakbagr, I've been following this thread and I think I'm getting as excited as you are. There's lots of good material here, nothing much that I can add except to second the advice to hold off on overdoing it on a young dogs' joints with steep downhills. I've attached a picture of the 2-3 yr old purebred chocolate lab that we rescued from a shelter this summer; well, the shelter did the rescuing, we just continued it. (It breaks my heart to tell the story of how and why he got there so I won't.) Any way, this guy is coming along fine. Still some training work to do, which is why I've been reading about dominance v. leadership in canine packs (there's a link in that other silly thread on "has this ever happened to you").He actually had to learn how to hike. Sounds strange. You'd think a dog could do that automatically but he was awkward and klutzy at first jumping on rocks, across streams, etc., and didn't have much stamina. After 6 months in the woods, he's much better, a regular hikin' dog almost (although still a couch potato at heart I suspect). It's hard to lose a pet at any age, but it's so important not to stop loving animals because they leave us sooner than we'd like. My hat's off to you for staying open. Can't wait to see the pics of your new guy.....
p.s. the pic is on a Cannon ski trail (strictly verboten to hike there) but he wasn't ready for primetime trails yet.

Thanks to you all.

PB

Condolences and congratulations...we lost our yellow lab Clio at the age of 15 last year and I went looking for another immediately...can't really live fully without one. Genie is now almost 4 months and she's already running full tilt on our little hikes.

Clio started hiking at 4 months - at 7 months she was doing 4K's and bushwhacking, so I don't really hold with all those cautions. We had never been warned and it never did her harm.

Our one mistake was taking her on a backcountry ski trip at age 9 or so in mashed potato snow. She had to keep up, of course, and partially tore a ligament which eventually hastened the arthritis. But she had a full and glorious life.

I too am sorry for all those who have experienced the loss of a beloved dog.

Carmen came home with me as a stubby tubby little 8 week old. She is now six and we have hiked 100's of miles together. I began taking her for short walks right away and went through 4 harnesses until she grew to full size. I would strongly suggest a harness over a collar for a young one....The only time she has been on a leash in the last few years is for walking into the vets office although I always have one in my truck just in case. We live in the country and I've got many acres away from the road for her to romp.

While hiking locally if she is out ahead of me 25 yards or so I can have her stop and sit with a simple request and putting my hand up-no yelling-and she waits til I catch up. Then of course I tell her she is wonderful and kiss her all over! The other thing she has learned which is quite useful for hiking is to pee and poop in the woods. My friends think I am nuts when we are walking down a country road and the nearest nestle of trees is up ahead. Carmen will get up next to me and give me that special look. I say 'ok honey go ahead" and off she runs into the woods to poop. Yes she actually tells me when she has to go! Works for us..........
Best of luck!.........Jade

Waumbek's right, dogs aren't born knowing how to hike. Walk, yes, but if hiking were walking the mountains would probably be a lot more crowded. It's been my experience that a pup exposed to varied/rough terrain from as soon as they can walk will take to hiking easily. My current dog (in the avatar, a Kuvasz from breed rescue who came home a year and a half ago at one year of age), like Waumbek's is just beginning to show some solid signs of being a good hiker-dog, and we're out in the woods every day, at least once a day.

Audrey has a point too, some dogs are exercised heavily at a very young age and never show symptoms of joint problems. Again, not all of the causes of hip dysplacia and arthritis and other orthopedic issues are known. Just as with humans, what may cause a problem in one animal may not cause a problem (or that same problem) in another. The guidelines here are only guidelines. Use your best judgement, do some research, consult with the breeder.

Jade's advice for a harness over a collar is a good one, especially for off lead dogs. It's more difficult for a dog to slip a harness, or choke to death in one.

If you do use a collar, I recommend a martingale style collar, adjusted to a length such that, even when fully constricted, the dog can still slip the collar. That way, if they get hung up on something while running off on their own, there's a possibility they could slip the collar and return. If you're out and about, whether on lead or not, the dog should wear some sort of harness or collar, with at least tags for license, rabies vaccination, and id attached. In addition, consider microchipping and/or tattooing. When done well, neither is painful, and it's another tool to help get a lost dog home.

Here's a couple of sites that sell the type of collar I prefer:
http://www.northwindcatalog.com/martingale_collars.htm
http://www.sitstay.com/store/equip/collars3.shtml

And as far as Jade's Carmen goes - she is an amazing hiking dog and they have a great relationship. I think Jade and Carmen have some sort of ESP.

We recently lost the family Sheltie after 13 years. He was a great dog! We had recently gotten a Sheltie pup which really helped getting past loosing our old friend. Of course I'd love to try the new one at hiking...one question...do people use booties for their feet? Or do the pads get tough enough? I hike in both the Catskills and Adirondacks and wonder if the loose rocks in the Catskills would tear up a dog's feet (in the Dacks I can see getting by without booties). Thanks,

Hikerdad,

The pads will get tough enough after lots of hikes, at least in a Lab. I didn't use booties with my previous dog, although her webbed feet would gather a lot of snow and ice and booties would have benefited her.

I'm going to try the booties as soon as she's about a year old - she wouldn't need them most of the time, but frequent use is the only way to get a dog to accept them. I've heard many good things about them on this forum and the AMC forum.

The roughest rock in the Whites is in the Northern Presidentials and Mount Washington.