2 rescued on Chocorua

[audrey]

Maps at trailheads may work for many or most, but they had better be complete and accurate. Here's a story: We had just climbed Paugus and were returning to Ferncroft via Mt. Wonalancet. Halfway down, we caught up with a couple, Forest Service map in hand, who were starting to think they might be lost.

The map (no topo lines or outstanding features) showed only the trails on the north side of the ridgeline and by the time they got to the vicinity of the Old Mast Road they were playing a guessing game. It didn't help not to have an intended route!

 

[TCD]

In many places, the quality of the maps, signs, markers, and maintenance are INCREDIBLY poor. This matters, and not just to novices. Even expert land navigators, when they choose to use a trail, expect the trail to be followable and to go where it is supposed to go. The ONLY times I have become disoriented or ended up in the wrong place were when following a mismapped or mismarked trail. When you are off trail, you keep constant track of where you are going. When you are on trail, you lower that attention a little, becasue you reasonably expect the trail to go where it's suppose to go. Poorly managed trails are worse than no trails at all.

Glad the people got down OK!

 

[forestgnome]

these "lost hiker/bad signage" threads always give me the guilties for not adopting a trail... I plan to adopt one soon; a new year's resolution for 2012. I was surprised to see that the Oliverian Tr was an orphan.

 

[peakbagger]

Not sure if this applies to the conditions in place at the time, but AMC and USFS policy is to to mark and maintain trails for use when there isnt snow on the ground. Any trail that is dependent upon blazes on ledge is not going to be very easy to find when there is snow of ice on the ground. NPS policy is to have blazes spaced so that only one can be seen at any given time. The double blaze standard where the top blaze is tilted in the direction of a significant change in trail direction is at local trail club discretion and many newer hikers do not understand its signficance.

If the intent is to mark a trail so is "idiot proof", the blazing standard is going to have to be substantially revised. I expect with a rock drill and a pack full of the fiberglass poles used to deliniate parking lots for plowtrucks it could be done but it would be a major intrusion on the scenery.

 

[Creag Nan Drochaid]

"In winter, there is only mountaineering."

Merry Christmas to you all!

I have titled this post with the advice given hillwalkers in Scotland, with its treeless mountains, gently sloped summits above crags and scree slopes, frequent freeze-thaw cycles that leave boilerplate for snow, and the complete lack of marking and signage on routes in summer, let alone winter, for these are but herd paths, not designated and maintained trails as we know them.

Most if not all maintaining authorities here mark trails for travel in the snowless season. We follow their example on the alpine zone of Mt Cardigan, although we do build and maintain cairns where the slope and rock supply allows, and we do lash painted blaze boards to trees at treeline once they are big enough to support them. Even those can be covered if there is enough snow and enough wind. In winter YOYO, and risk expands considerably, as we all know.

If the people in charge of a parcel of land bethink themselves that a given trail really should be marked better for winter, then we are willing to mark it better. However, I will wait for others to demand that, because I believe it is right that people on the hill in winter should have to be more self-reliant than tourists in summer. The sooner an unprepared person realizes their situation and turns back, the safer they are, and the more wisely they may prepare for next time. More markings leads them to a false sense of security that is more likely to become deadly in winter. Therefore I keep that Scottish advice well in mind.

 

[Maddy]

I will not now or ever travel an unblazed trail and I am very experienced hiker. In fact approx 45 years worth.

It's a heartbreak to travel a distance and find a trail not blazed or poorly blazed.

Sometimes one cannot trust a book description because a trail has not been maintained. Blazes have faded or are non-existent.

I am of the school of thought: If it's a hiking trail , it should be blazed so that hikers are safe.

What is the point of a costly rescue when a blaze could save all that time, trouble, and expense. Perhaps even save a life.

 

[Raymond]

That seems a little extreme, to refuse to travel any trail that isn’t blazed, but to each her or his own. I agree that it is reassuring to see blazes for confirmation, but I’m not even sure that Lincoln Woods Trail is blazed.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

...It's a heartbreak to travel a distance and find a trail not blazed or poorly blazed.

You'd be disappointed in the Adirondacks, Maddy. Blazing is limited.

 

[Maddy]

You are right Kevin. I was there last summer and I pick my trails very carefully. I did get good advice from folks on these forums and I also speak with the ADK person who was most helpful to me.

I hate the sinking feeling when I have to say to the dog. "OK...I sincerely hope you know the way back because it's all up to you now. You can have a cheesburger and an ice cream if you get us back to the car."

 

[Maddy]

That seems a little extreme, to refuse to travel any trail that isn’t blazed, but to each her or his own. I agree that it is reassuring to see blazes for confirmation, but I’m not even sure that Lincoln Woods Trail is blazed.

I should have been more clear. Not to worry, even I could find my way on Lincoln Woods. Have been on many fire roads, jeep roads, trolley beds, etc. I was making reference to trails in the woods that have herd paths intersecting, unmarked junctions, etc. I think most know what I am referring to.

For my New Years resolution I will keep in mind to cross my T's and dot my i. Something to work on for 2012.

 

[Nessmuk]

“The places where trails do not exist are not well marked..."

“The places where trails do not exist are not well marked." and.... “Trails need to be wider so people can walk while holding hands.” And other such trail log humor, supposedly attributed to journalist Tom Wharton reading a few actual comments collected from registration sheets and comment cards at entrances to the Bridger Wilderness in Wyoming’s Wind River Mountains.

In many places, the quality of the maps, signs, markers, and maintenance are INCREDIBLY poor. This matters, and not just to novices. Even expert land navigators, when they choose to use a trail, expect the trail to be followable and to go where it is supposed to go. The ONLY times I have become disoriented or ended up in the wrong place were when following a mismapped or mismarked trail.

I don't have much trouble with known and mapped trails, but I often consider traveling on a trail only as a necessary means to get to where I can get off trail. Bushwhacking by map and compass (without gps) is my passion, I live it and I teach it, and I consider myself an expert at the art of it. It is easy and satisfying. But when bushwhacking in areas with ancient overgrown logging roads it is sometimes tempting to follow one of those ghost trails that "seems to be going in the right direction". Pretty soon you drop your guard and don't pay attention to the slight twists and turns. It doesn't take long with daydreaming to completely become disoriented. Traveling in that mode is downright dangerous. I teach that you are allowed one navigation mistake... discover it soon and it is recoverable. But compounded multiple navigation mistakes are sure to get you completely disoriented and confused for perhaps a long time. Easy to fall into when not paying attention to where the trail is really taking you.

When you are off trail, you keep constant track of where you are going. When you are on trail, you lower that attention a little, becasue you reasonably expect the trail to go where it's suppose to go. Poorly managed trails are worse than no trails at all.

Yes, exactly what I said... except that poorly managed (or totally unmanaged) trails are fine and are part of the wilderness, you can't eradicate them, you just have to understand what you are getting into if you choose to follow them.

 

[TCD]

I agree completely. Trails are my route to get TO the winderness. And like you, I eschew GPS, and really enjoy, and teach, navigating by terrain features and compass. It's great stuff!

But we have to recognize that we are greatly in the minority. Right or wrong, most of the people who show up at the trailhead are counting on maintenance, signs, and blazes. And just as we can't eliminate poorly marked trails, we also can't really change the population that shows up to go in the woods.

And while we cannot eliminate poorly marked trails (such as old roads in the woods), I find it silly that there are actually "standards" that encourage poorly marked trails. My feeling is, if we want it to look like wilderness, then get rid of the trail, and put a big sign at the parking lot that says - "NO TRAIL." It wouldn't hurt you and me any, and 90% of the people who need a trail to navigate would probably be smart enough to go somewhere else.

The other thing that's a real trap for people is the trail where the blazes are great for the first mile or so and then peter out. Or the blazes are great where you don't need them, like in very thick woods where it's almost impossible to get off the trail, but then the blazes are missing around the big open camping area or the streambed, with the network of herd paths. Those are the places that get people lost.

But we probably cannot change any of this, except by doing our little bit through education and volunteer trail maintenance.

 

[cooperhill]

I hope to get up to the upper ledges to refresh blaze this spring (upper reaches of Piper are my responsibility). Hoping to enlist some help from others on this.

I have been told cairns are a non-starter as there is a lack of appropriately sized rock on the summit.

Re: Piper. Went up there on Friday to the lower section to clear about 10 blowdowns (thanks to Ed'n Lauky for the report). Amazing to be out there in December.

 

[MichaelJ]

I have been told cairns are a non-starter as there is a lack of appropriately sized rock on the summit.

A much better reason than having cairns disassembled to build scree walls which won't even be visible once winter really gets going.

 

[Ed'n Lauky]

I hope to get up to the upper ledges to refresh blaze this spring (upper reaches of Piper are my responsibility). Hoping to enlist some help from others on this.

I have been told cairns are a non-starter as there is a lack of appropriately sized rock on the summit.

Re: Piper. Went up there on Friday to the lower section to clear about 10 blowdowns (thanks to Ed'n Lauky for the report). Amazing to be out there in December.

I didn't mention it before because it didn't seem to be the reason the couple was lost, but when I went up Chocorua recently I went up Weetamoo, Hamlin and Liberty and down Piper. On the bare open ledges north of the summit it seemed to me that there were not an abundance of cairns and the paint markings were covered with snow and there were no footprints at all as I had not come that way nor had anyone else. I was thinking at the time as I worked my way down that it was extremely helpful to have an idea of where the trail should be because one could very easily get off the trail and it's not immediately obvious where the trail comes out of the trees especially when the visibility is low. I think it would be a good idea to improve the cairn layout on that area.

 

[RoySwkr]

>I am of the school of thought: If it's a hiking trail , it should be
>blazed so that hikers are safe.
>
>What is the point of a costly rescue when a blaze could save all that
>time, trouble, and expense. Perhaps even save a life.

Obviously some people are better at following trails than others, and conditions change how easy it is to follow a trail. A trail that can be followed by total idiots when leaves are down will appear overblazed in the prime hiking season.

The public has convinced the Forest Service that some trails should be kept in a more primitive-appearing conditions, and this wouldn't be such a bad idea if:
1) Guidebooks, maps, and trailhead signs clearly indicated how easy it is to follow a certain trail
2) Assignments should be made individually based on usage and terrain, rather than by zone

Right now, all trails in Wilderness are to be lightly marked while those near roads are to be well-marked (not that they are which would be something like all roads in Iowa were to be 4-lane even if they went only to a single home while all those in Minnesota were to be one-lane dirt even in major cities. Consider the alternative: there are maybe 5
trailheads for Chocorua so some routes could be sparsely blazed while the Piper Trail could be close to idiot-proof. But since the mountain is a scenic area, all trails are supposedly treated the same and if they aren't the FS won't admit it and allow the difference to be posted.

 

[RoySwkr]

Does anyone remember the guy whom got lost on the Liberty Trail back in the 80's whom was carrying a portable TV?

If I remember correctly, the kid was clueless about trails and never started up the mountain - instead he followed the more-obvious gravel logging road to its end and once in the woods just set up camp and waited for his friends whom he assumed would be back soon. The searchers apparently never thought to look there. Once the kid saw on TV that he was supposed to be lost, he walked back out the next day.

It is easy to laugh about all this, but here we have a kid who knows basically nothing about backpacking spending several days in the woods alone without going nuts. Most people would not do as well in such an unfamiliar situation.

 

[Mike P.]

I hope to get up to the upper ledges to refresh blaze this spring (upper reaches of Piper are my responsibility). Hoping to enlist some help from others on this.

I have been told cairns are a non-starter as there is a lack of appropriately sized rock on the summit.

Re: Piper. Went up there on Friday to the lower section to clear about 10 blowdowns (thanks to Ed'n Lauky for the report). Amazing to be out there in December.

With a peak climbed so regularly, could you get a pick-up load of rock delivered to the trailhead & ask hikers to volunteer to carry a rock up. It should just take a couple of weekends to get rocks up to treeline.

 

[sierra]

Thats a pretty good idea, since Im always carrying rocks from summits, it would be a change to carry one UP to a summit.

 

[RoySwkr]

With a peak climbed so regularly, could you get a pick-up load of rock delivered to the trailhead & ask hikers to volunteer to carry a rock up. It should just take a couple of weekends to get rocks up to treeline.

They did this on Azure Mtn in the Adk, not for cairns but to mark revegetation area edges