ADK / DEC getting the bear canister message out?

[Tom Rankin]

It seems that I've been reading more this year than last about bears taking people's food around Marcy Dam.

While at the ADK Loj yesterday, we noticed a sign that said that the bear bag cables had been removed. This is good, but what about mentioning the alternative? I saw no mention of bear canisters being required. There were no rangers at the trail heads asking or checking. Granted, Sunday is not usually a big day for hiking in. Does anyone monitor the trailheads on Friday or Saturday and enforce the rules? Did I just miss the signs?

 

[TCD]

If I read the "Wright, Algonquin..." trail report by ***** correctly, it sounds like the bear was enforcing his own rules in the Loj area.

I continue to be disappointed that NY cannot do as California does, and install bear proof food lockers at the popular sites. As I have said on other threads, these lockers, along with education, are a definitive solution. (The only thing I would change is to make them openable from inside, so there was no possibility of children or animals getting trapped in them.) I have made this suggestion to DEC, and gotten a frosty reception. I can only conclude that, as with so many other things, it's easier and cheaper to promulgate rules than it is to actually do anything productive.

That's too bad, but I've given up expecting it to improve. And it sounds from the first post here, that, true to form, a rule that was a "big deal" a couple years ago is now being selectively and laxly enforced. Again, enforcement and education cost money and are invisible, whereas making new rules is easy and makes headlines. If bear problems continue in the Marcy Dam area, my prediction is to expect additional new rules, rather than enforcement of the existing ones.

 

[MichaelJ]

Why get rid of the cables? Don't you want to hang your canister from them? I certainly wouldn't want my canister with me in camp, but would still want it connected to something, not just loose and able to be nosed or rolled away.

 

[DougPaul]

Why get rid of the cables? Don't you want to hang your canister from them? I certainly wouldn't want my canister with me in camp, but would still want it connected to something, not just loose and able to be nosed or rolled away.

Standard procedure with a canister is to just leave it on the ground in a location where it won't roll well. If you attach a leash to it, you give the bear a handle to drag it around and perhaps smash it on a rock.

Doug

 

[Chip]

Why get rid of the cables?

Acrobatic Bears. The Mama's apparently would send the cubs out on the cable to tear the bags open while Mama waited below. And alot of people weren't using the cable, anyway.

 

[albee]

Why get rid of the cables? Don't you want to hang your canister from them? I certainly wouldn't want my canister with me in camp, but would still want it connected to something, not just loose and able to be nosed or rolled away.

There were reports that the bears had actually learned how to pull up the cables, as well as how to cut the ropes for bear-bags hanging from trees.

Standard suggestions for bear canisters is to leave them 100 yards from your camp on the ground, preferably in a depression where they won't roll too far. Proper bear canisters are supposed to be scent-proof, although I highly doubt the ones you rent up there actually are. A bear will try to open it if it finds one, but won't likely roll it very far if it can't get it open. Apparently, the bears have also started to learn that they can't get those canisters open, so they give up trying more readily now.

I have spoken with rangers at least twice in the last year about bear canisters. They are still active in encouraging their use and enforcing it. There are also community "overflow canisters" (larger trash-can looking things) at the Lake Colden outpost as well as near the Flowed Lands lean-tos. These canisters are not well publicized because you are supposed to be self-sufficient, but they are there in these popular camping areas to put your food in if your group can't fit it all in your own canister. I can't gaurantee that they will always be there or be available, or even be in the same place, so you will want to ask a ranger about their location before you plan to use them.

 

[Neil]

I was sitting on the bench in front of the HPIC yesterday when a guy walks up to me and asks, "Is there a rule about using a bear canister?"

"Not any more" I replied, "the bears are all gone. You can sleep with all your food right in the Lean-to. Matter of fact it'll make a great pillow. Got any sausages or bacon? They work great."

Haha. What I told him was that he had to take one and all of his food had to go in it. Funny thing is there is a cannister display with complete explanations that you practically have to trip over to get into the HPIC and he was coming out of it.

 

[Tom Rankin]

What I told him was that he had to take one and all of his food had to go in it. Funny thing is there is a cannister display with complete explanations that you practically have to trip over to get into the HPIC and he was coming out of it.

Oh well, I guess we were blind!

 

[Neil]

Oh well, I guess we were blind!

Funny how stuff like that escapes our notice. The display they once had in the parking lot of a tent and pack that had been shredded by a bear was much more effective.

 

[MichaelJ]

Acrobatic Bears. The Mama's apparently would send the cubs out on the cable to tear the bags open while Mama waited below. And alot of people weren't using the cable, anyway.

Send those bears over to Clarks in NH! No, seriously, I totally get why hanging a bag on a cable wasn't working anymore, I was just surprised at the removal of the cables because they seemed to me the ideal thing to tether a canister. I hadn't realized they just acted as the throwing leverage to turn a canister into a piñata.

They should make a rectangular canister…

 

[Peakbagr]

I thought that bear lockers were a good idea. It was then pointed out that where they work are in camping areas close to the road. The ones in the backcountry quickly become garbage bins, and then someone has to hike out and clean out the mess that is inevitably left.

 

[rdl]

I continue to be disappointed that NY cannot do as California does, and install bear proof food lockers at the popular sites.

Food lockers are a "non-conforming structure" and therefore against the State Constitution in a Wilderness Area.

 

[DougPaul]

They should make a rectangular canister…

A basic principle in bear canister design is to make it of a shape and size that a bear cannot get its jaws around it. A rectangular solid might work if it is big enough in all 3 dimensions, but you also have to provide an access port. A cylinder seems a bit easier--mine looks like a big mayonnaise jar...

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

Food lockers are a "non-conforming structure" and therefore against the State Constitution in a Wilderness Area.

They also require an outlay of public money, and, as noted by Peakbagr, require maintainence.

Doug

 

[Rik]

I thought that bear lockers were a good idea. It was then pointed out that where they work are in camping areas close to the road. The ones in the backcountry quickly become garbage bins, and then someone has to hike out and clean out the mess that is inevitably left.

I still think this is better than the garbage being spread out over in the woods where the bears drag it. We could have "adopt a locker" where volunteers go in and clean them. My experience with them out west was no garbage in any of the ones I used.
As far as "non conforming structures" I find that a silly reasoning. Bear cables were ok but not lockers? Signs, lean-tos, privies,... all ok but not something that would address this problem?
I would love for people to take personal responsibility and all but that is obviously not happening. The result is likely to be dead bears, possibly injured campers, and eventually no camping in the Marcy Dam/Av Pass/ Flowed Lands corridor as well as the John's Brook Valley.

 

[1ADAM12]

The result is likely to be dead bears, possibly injured campers, and eventually no camping in the Marcy Dam/Av Pass/ Flowed Lands corridor as well as the John's Brook Valley.

Lets hope that does not happen

 

[TCD]

My experience with the lockers in Yosemite a few years ago was the same; no problems with garbage, in either roadside locations or several miles in. Somehow they can do it in California...

I voiced this in my conversation with DEC a couple years ago. Part of the "frosty reception" I referenced earlier was being told by the DEC representative (name I cannot remember) that Eastern hikers are not as mature or capable as Western hikers, so what works there will not work here.

So it's very challenging to work with NY State. The state seems to be unwilling to address real issues on the ground; it hides behind "wilderness" regulations, which are selectively enforced (as an earlier poster mentioned); and at least one spokesperson thinks our hiking public is mentally inferior to that in other areas.

Sadly, what will eventually happen here is whatever Albany thinks will make the best headlines in New York City. And that won't be good for people who like camping in the popular corridors.