Some of you might find this of interest.
A broad ranging group of initiatives spanning generations, geographical regions, and DEI policy.
A broad ranging group of initiatives spanning generations, geographical regions, and DEI policy.
AMC Action Plan for 2025-30
- Thread starter NHChris
- Start date
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Lots of words, short on specifics.
Get your check book out now.
JoshandBaron
Well-known member
I've spent weeks in their MWI the past few years, using their boats and roads and campsites and shelters, and given them precisely $0 for what have been some of the best camping and fishing and wildlife and stargazing experiences of my life. If they want to preserve the 100 Mile while charging what they do for everything else, more power to them.
Very nice. Sounds like you had a good time. Like I said. Get your check book out.
Yury
Member
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2015
- Messages
- 45
- Reaction score
- 12
What is "MWI"?
Maine Woods Initiative
Creag Nan Drochaid
Active member
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2009
- Messages
- 347
- Reaction score
- 52
I just read the entire AMC Action Plan 2025-2030, twice. With growing membership from 90,000 to 150,000, member and public
programs, loaning gear, DEI initiatives etc. I have no problems, and I cannot easily imagine how anyone could. I have found AMC people
I have met to be welcoming and inclusive throughout my membership of 30+ years. Likewise for advocacy of conservation issues
in the NE USA. Like all mission statements, this has big dreams but leaves specifics till later. It is like a party platform in politics.
That being said, some of the initiatives will need public money, and lots of it. The LWCF $300,000,000 needs a vote of Congress;
the AMC may advocate, but they will not of themselves fund that. They are one among many partners, and compromises will happen.
Region-wide, 30 new partner organizations? The AMC works now with existing groups that are smaller and more local, while being
just as committed to the same goals. "30 new" sounds a mere advertising claim that ignores the good work done together.
These mountains are a land of heavy rains, steep slopes, thin organic soils. Many older trails run up and down the fall line. It takes not very much foot traffic to cause significant erosion on such trails. AMC and other pro crews, volunteer crews, and individual adopters, have all been relocating trails to lesser grades, building waterbars, steps, and pavers, chopping blowdowns and cleaning drains etc. for at least
50 years. Climate change has hastened some erosion, but trail conditions more often result from steep design, lack of erosion control
fixtures, or failure to maintain what's there. How do 3 more FRT jobs, in only 5 years, put any more workers on these other existing trails?
In fairness, the AMC and other groups are trying to do just that, but you'd not know that from this appeal.
Over to you fellow hikers. Am I fretting over a squall in a shot glass?
programs, loaning gear, DEI initiatives etc. I have no problems, and I cannot easily imagine how anyone could. I have found AMC people
I have met to be welcoming and inclusive throughout my membership of 30+ years. Likewise for advocacy of conservation issues
in the NE USA. Like all mission statements, this has big dreams but leaves specifics till later. It is like a party platform in politics.
That being said, some of the initiatives will need public money, and lots of it. The LWCF $300,000,000 needs a vote of Congress;
the AMC may advocate, but they will not of themselves fund that. They are one among many partners, and compromises will happen.
Region-wide, 30 new partner organizations? The AMC works now with existing groups that are smaller and more local, while being
just as committed to the same goals. "30 new" sounds a mere advertising claim that ignores the good work done together.
"Greater White Mountains Region
Using the Franconia Ridge Trail project as a model, we will work with land management partners to secure funding for three large-scale, multi-year restoration projects. Projects like these restore highly popular trails, which can see up to 1,000 hikers a day on summer weekends and have experienced significant erosion, washouts, and overall trail degradation due to climate change." - Action Plan 2025-2030These mountains are a land of heavy rains, steep slopes, thin organic soils. Many older trails run up and down the fall line. It takes not very much foot traffic to cause significant erosion on such trails. AMC and other pro crews, volunteer crews, and individual adopters, have all been relocating trails to lesser grades, building waterbars, steps, and pavers, chopping blowdowns and cleaning drains etc. for at least
50 years. Climate change has hastened some erosion, but trail conditions more often result from steep design, lack of erosion control
fixtures, or failure to maintain what's there. How do 3 more FRT jobs, in only 5 years, put any more workers on these other existing trails?
In fairness, the AMC and other groups are trying to do just that, but you'd not know that from this appeal.
Over to you fellow hikers. Am I fretting over a squall in a shot glass?
JoshandBaron
Well-known member
Maine Woods Initiative. Their goal is to preserve the entire 100 Mile. So far they have acquired 100+ thousand acres near Greenville around the headwaters of the West Branch of the Pleasant River/Gulf Hagas and operate several lodges. Some of it is part of KI Jo Mary and access is managed by North Maine Woods, Inc from May to October. Much of it is still being managed as a working forest. Car camping paradise.
I've driven around a bunch of these areas, it's a fantastic place. Also hiked things here and there, pieces of the AT, little trails to various falls, etc. My girlfriend's father manages a bunch of those NMW sites, and also works at Jo Mary Campground half the year - when we go up, we camp there, on the lake with a stunning view of Katahdin. The AT is indeed kind of a preserved corridor, with logging all around.
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I am confused. If some of your have such fine things to say about the AMC’s MWI, why do you refuse to give the AMC any money?
JoshandBaron
Well-known member
Same reason I go when the checkpoints are closed: I'm poor.
I used to know someone in their treasurer's office. He said the huts ran even at best, or took a loss. It would be interesting to see the number of people who use their bathrooms for free over the course of a year.
The AMC was a key part of my life when I lived in Boston. Made friendships that last to this day. Am very grateful for the organization and what it does.
I have been a member for a few years now, to support their land conservation efforts, to read their fine Appalacia journal, and to get that discount on the breakfast at the Highland Center. I have never stayed at any of their facilities, though I make use of the bathrooms and goodies to eat at the huts.
Never been to the MWI. But in general, because I’m
That, and it seems that if they have money for changing their logo every few years, they probably don’t need money from me.
TomK
They are a non-profit, right? So, I would hope that their enterprises would run about break-even, operate at a small enough loss that other income sources would cover it, or a small profit that could be set aside for use in less prosperous years.
They have a difficult balance to maintain. They want to be inexpensive enough so that the less affluent can use their services, but they still need to pay the bills.
I stayed in huts several times in the mid-eighties, and I recall thinking at the time, the prices charged then were a pretty good deal, especially considering things couldn't be simply trucked in. A few years ago, I contemplated a trip that would have involved a stay at a hut. The trip never materialized, but while checking out the details, I thought that the prices were, while less a good deal than earlier, were still not unreasonable, again, considering the circumstances.
More recently, when I've passed a hut, I generally use their bathroom and try to make a point of buying some baked goods. Dunno if that really helps much.
I remember thinking myself finally a "real backpacker" when I'd come off the trail after a few days of backpacking and stopped in Pinkham Notch to use the coin operated showers and change into fresh clothes for the long drive home.
You make a good point, and it spurs me to make a note to myself to send them something. Notwithstanding what I wrote earlier in the thread, I like to pay my way.
TomK
JoshandBaron
Well-known member
2023 they had ~$60 million in revenue, ~$40 million in expenses, and over $200 million in assets.
https://cdn.outdoors.org/wp-content...8*MTczNjUzMzc4NC4zLjEuMTczNjUzNDUzNS41NC4wLjA.
https://cdn.outdoors.org/wp-content...8*MTczNjUzMzc4NC4zLjEuMTczNjUzNDUzNS41NC4wLjA.
Creag Nan Drochaid
Active member
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2009
- Messages
- 347
- Reaction score
- 52
Thank you for those numbers, J. We can wrap our minds around them. My question would be, how much of those assets would be things like land and buildings and gear, and how much in more liquid things convertible into credit or cash? They do sit rather comfy for an
organization whose hand is always out... Mind, I'm not saying I would act much different if I were them, but I do wonder.
In May 1998 AMC Outdoors, "Building the Bog Bridge to the 21st Century," by Carl Demrow. The five biggest trail challenges
in the northeast.
Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose. More it changes, more it's the same thing.
organization whose hand is always out... Mind, I'm not saying I would act much different if I were them, but I do wonder.
In May 1998 AMC Outdoors, "Building the Bog Bridge to the 21st Century," by Carl Demrow. The five biggest trail challenges
in the northeast.
Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose. More it changes, more it's the same thing.
sierra
Well-known member
I have never joined the AMC, never saw the benefit. I've run into their groups out hiking and I have been into the huts for water and to look around. The organization is anything but diverse if you ask me, it's mostly affluent white people from Boston, hence a member of this group mentioning that very thing, no surprise. They say they are non-profit, I never believed that, the CEO makes over 300,000 dollars in salary. AS far as the huts go, I can see they have a place and while I would never at stay at one, the huts above treeline should go, it's an eyesore and a blight of the limited alpine tundra we have, just so wealthy people can camp above treeline. The huts down in the forest don't really bother me. Just my 2 cents.
I think that the above-treeline huts are the most important of all for consolidating human waste that is transported out by helicopter to a sewage treatment plant. This service alone was incredibly important during the onslaught multitude of temporary hikers during the first year of the pandemic, a time when the huts were otherwise closed for lodging and meals, which was a huge financial hit for the AMC, as the huts are the cash cow that supports other services like education programs, trail construction, and the MWI.
In reply to TomK’s comment about buying baked goods at the huts, please keep doing that one and all, as all that cash goes directly to the not so highly paid hut croos.
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