Another North Country Prison in Lancaster?

[peakbagger]

http://www.newhampshirelakesandmoun...-proposed-1500-to-2200bed-private-prison.html

Well the loss of most of the paper industry in the northern NH appears to have attracted another industry. The proposed site would be out of view of most visitors to the whites so I expect it wont get much attention in the hiking community. I guess out of "out of sight out of mind" is the new approach. The area north of Lancaster has been devastated over the last 15 years with a loss of almost the entire employment base. Ethan Allen (beecher falls) still operates with minimal staffing with a major drop in employment, the two papermills in Groveton are gone and scheduled to be bulldozed, the Balsams is closed for at least two years and numerous support businesses are long gone and nothing has replaced them. Like the prisons in Berlin, this will provide a lot of direct jobs that dont require extensive schooling and benefits which are rare to come by plus a lot of support jobs.

 

[dentonfabrics]

Thanks 'bagger, I always appreciate your North Country updates.

If/when they ever get widespread coverage for broadband internet, I think that would be a giant step towards economic recovery up north. I live "down below" but I've got a small house in Stewartstown, too, and if I had a broadband connection in Stewartstown, that would give me (and my wife) the opportunity to live up there full time, working virtually from our camp. I know they offer HughesNet, but their service is slow, expensive, and capped. Totally inadequate for business. I would bet that given inexpensive property costs with an eager and available work force, many companies would be tempted to hang a shingle in Lancaster, Colebrook, or any place up there. Do you ever hear about any steps being taken to connect the North Country to the broadband web? I know Fairpoint has DSL is some locations north of the notches, but DSL ain't broadband.


bob

 

[peakbagger]

I am not sure of the details but the state of NH has been stringing a lot of fiber in the north country and connecting it up toto downstate. I wouldnt be surprised if the capacity is there but the final deployment isnt. There was a recently article in the Berlin Paper about a wind and solar powered repeater station on Mt Jericho in Berlin, that was associated with a firm called Skywire broadband. They apparently supplied broadband to the Wind farm project and apparently have customers on Lake Umbagog. It may be worth talking to them.

 

[JacobH]

Google search yielded this:

http://ncia.net/wireless/

$699 for 1.5 MBPS... I would say the price is not right. I have no idea who this company is or if they are reputable so please don't consider this a recommendation! Options seem to be very limited up beyond the notches.

edit: I also realize this is quite the thread drift now that I've posted...

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Thanks 'bagger, I always appreciate your North Country updates.

If/when they ever get widespread coverage for broadband internet, I think that would be a giant step towards economic recovery up north. I live "down below" but I've got a small house in Stewartstown, too, and if I had a broadband connection in Stewartstown, that would give me (and my wife) the opportunity to live up there full time, working virtually from our camp. I know they offer HughesNet, but their service is slow, expensive, and capped. Totally inadequate for business. I would bet that given inexpensive property costs with an eager and available work force, many companies would be tempted to hang a shingle in Lancaster, Colebrook, or any place up there. Do you ever hear about any steps being taken to connect the North Country to the broadband web? I know Fairpoint has DSL is some locations north of the notches, but DSL ain't broadband.


bob

For a time, the only internet service I could get was via satellite, and I choose WildBlue, which was a smidgen faster than HughesNet, mainly because it was newer and had fewer customers. It cost $50/month, and was somewhat slower than DSL. For $60, you could get a faster connection. By the time the 24 month contract period was up, a local company put up a wireless tower in the valley, and I switched. It's a bit faster, and has the benefit of being a local company, and isn't affected as much by weather/cloud cover.

I got a smartphone ('Droid) a few months ago, and have discovered the joys of tethering, which allows you to connect your PC to the 'net by using your cell phone as a wireless access point. I use PdaNet, a tethering software for the 'Droid family, which has a one-time charge of $15, and with a 4GB data plan on my cell I never get close to using the 4GB (I don't watch movies on it, but do Skype frequently. The beauty of PdaNet is the ability to use it with any PC - desktop, laptops, etc. The license resides on the cell phone, and you can load the client on any PC.

So, when my local wireless service is slow/erratic, I use my cell phone to augment the service. PdaNet gives me much faster service than the wireless service provider, and many times faster that WildBlue. I've not gotten any calls when PdaNet is active, so I don't know what impact it has on that function.

I have no idea whether any of the above fits your business needs. But, there seems to be an ever increasing smorgasbord of methods of providing internet access.

Hope this gives you (and others) some ideas.

 

[Tim Seaver]

2 cents

It would be nice if NH could do something other than build private for-profit prisons for it's economy, especially when you consider some of the details....like the 90% occupancy rate.

Corrections Corporation of America has a terrible record of inmate abuse as well. The ACLU:

Sure, at first blush, an injection of CCA money into government coffers might seem attractive to cash-strapped states. But here's the rub: states would be paying CCA for this short-term cash infusion with the liberties and freedoms of their citizens. For the corporation to buy a prison, a state would have to agree to keep it 90 percent full and CCA-operated for at least 20 years.

Here is another article that gives some more background on this ( IMHO) unhealthy phenomena.

 

[Zimmer]

As a White Mts. (but not Coos) resident, I don't think that broadband is the cure-all. The areas of northern NH that have good internet service aren't seeing economic growth, they're just not seeing the damage done in Coos by the death of the paper industry because they were already more diversified (and in many cases never had any stake in the paper industry).

As for the proposed prison in Lancaster, I have yet to hear anyone speak positively about it. Those I've spoken to are very, very fearful about what it will do to Lancaster both in terms of damage to tourism, and in terms of increased demand on services as population increase when inmates' families move to the area to be close to their loved ones. School populations may necessitate building additions, welfare costs could soar as families with at most one wage-earner move to town, and the housing market could tighten, leading to increase costs. Every person I've spoken to thus far has had the attitude of "Keep your jobs and just LEAVE US ALONE."

 

[Red Oak]

It would be nice if NH could do something other than build private for-profit prisons for it's economy, especially when you consider some of the details....like the 90% occupancy rate.

Corrections Corporation of America has a terrible record of inmate abuse as well. The ACLU:


Here is another article that gives some more background on this ( IMHO) unhealthy phenomena.

The prison building "phenomena" is a north country issue not a statewide issue.More like a tale of two states within one.Concord and points south are directly tied into the economy of Mass.Everyone I know in southern nh works in Mass.
In agreement here though on how bad it is to let a corporate entity control a function that should be a state or federal task.This 90% deal breaker point is the type of thing that scares me the most.What will my beloved granite state do to maintain this quota?Maybe a study of how California and Texas built their prison systems could benefit us here.Also tie in the rising minority population in the state in general to this issue.Tough issue to discuss here with out sounding political.... Very good thread here,hope it can stay on course.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

<ModeratorHat>
Please remember that politics are off-limits on VFTT. Kindly limit this discussion to the economic/tourism impact. While not directly related to hiking, the North Country economics situation is relevant and interesting to enough readers to remain, and I, like so many others, do appreciate the unique viewpoints of VFTTers who live North of The Notches.
</ModeratorHat>

Thanks,
Tim

 

[Chip]

I no expert, but now that I'm paying taxes in Grafton County, I may become one. To some of the comments above, well, let me just say this: when was the last time some of you drove through some of these areas ? I'm pretty sure ANY increase in employment, traffic and housing demand would be welcome. One of the things I like about NH is that they try to address their issues. I seriously doubt any group will be targeted and criminal sentencing guidelines relaxed to meet quotas. More likely local states (like CT ) will close prisons, increase taxes and send inmates north.

 

[peakbagger]

I dont know Chip, you are going to be a "darn flatlander" for quite awhile . You have to live in town for at least one full year before you graduate to the "guy from down south"

Vermont already is shipping prisoners elsewhere as its not polically correct to build prisons in a liberal underfunded state. Sort of like the Walmart in Woodsville NH, too much of a PITA to build one in VT so they built just over the Connecticut river in NH. The proposed location for the facility is north of Lancaster in Northumberland, I think the only business left north of Lancaster on RT 3 is Perras Lumber and the shop that rehabs railroad cars.

This area is also the route of the Northern Pass. There have been several individuals who resisted selling out to PSNH well over market prices that easilly could have used the money they would have received of they had sold out. If the route had made it to the PSNH right of way, it would have far more difficult for those that opposed the pass farther south. Of course now that things have calmed down, all their "friends down south" tend to forget that the people who resisted selling their land are saddled with increasingly higher town and county taxes and long drives for basic services. A prison may not be the most ideal employer, but its beats the alternative of doing nothing.

Much as some people dislike a prison (or prisons) the communities see it as a lifeline. A prison tends to bring in new younger and middle age workers into the region and more importantly contribute a lot of money in maintaining expensive infrastructure like wastewater treatment plants and municipal water systems. The local hospitals and health care community welcome the addition of workers with health care benefits as it offsets the large number of un or under insured patients they have to treat. I know in the Berlin Gorham area, the state prison was a stable employer during some rocky times and already a large block of homes have been sold to the new federal prison staff which is just starting to ramp up.

 

[Tim Seaver]

Kids For Cash

A former Pennsylvania juvenile court judge was sentenced on Thursday to 28 years in prison for accepting payment to send juveniles to a for-profit detention facility in a scandal dubbed "kids for cash,".
Former Luzerne County Juvenile Court Judge Mark Ciavarella, 61, accepted nearly $1 million from a developer who built the detention facility, prosecutors said.

....."The scheme involved a corrupt agreement with the operators of the for-profit juvenile facilities," Smith said. "It was a wholesale arrangement in which the judges concealed their interest and thereby did great damage to the public."

The U.S. Attorney's office called the case the "largest and most sustained political corruption inquiry" in the area.

The 90% occupancy requirement leads directly to situations like this. Not a great way to build your economy, IMO.

 

[Red Oak]

I no expert, but now that I'm paying taxes in Grafton County, I may become one. To some of the comments above, well, let me just say this: when was the last time some of you drove through some of these areas ? I'm pretty sure ANY increase in employment, traffic and housing demand would be welcome. One of the things I like about NH is that they try to address their issues. I seriously doubt any group will be targeted and criminal sentencing guidelines relaxed to meet quotas. More likely local states (like CT ) will close prisons, increase taxes and send inmates north.

Welcome to the 603! When is the welcoming party?I can do my one man band act for beer . You have some good points above but increase in traffic?That would lead to the logging trucks driving way to slow!

 

[Chip]

The 90% occupancy requirement leads directly to situations like this.

To be fair: That horrible situation was between corrupt judges and an independent developer and had nothing to do with CCA and the 90% requirement. I couldn't find an example related to CCA of anything like that.

... but increase in traffic?

Traffic = commerce. Look at Littleton. Not only are the big stores doing business (love those VT plates !) but there are many small shops, gas stations and restaurants that can exist there, too.

I dont know Chip, you are going to be a "darn flatlander" for quite awhile .

That's fine. Call me what you will. I know the Bethlehem Tax Collector loves me: We just got a 10% discount on our sewer bill for...wait for it...paying on time !

 

[Tim Seaver]

To be fair: That horrible situation was between corrupt judges and an independent developer and had nothing to do with CCA and the 90% requirement. I couldn't find an example related to CCA of anything like that.

I wasn't suggesting that CCA was related to this particular case - my point was to illustrate the potential corrupting financial dynamics of the requirement to keep the prison full.

While prosecutors say that Judge Conahan, 56, secured contracts for the two centers to house juvenile offenders, Judge Ciavarella, 58, was the one who carried out the sentencing to keep the centers filled.

Strictly from an economic standpoint, private prisons have not been shown to be less expensive to operate. What can't be calculated is the human cost of the perverse policy of keeping the prisons full, for PROFIT.

On a related note, they have figured out a neat way to neutralize the cost issue in Arizona after some awkward incidents- just stop studying it.

"Because it's a study that was bias from the beginning and never used," said *************."So rather than have a report that is biased and nobody listens to and costs money to produce. We simply eliminated it."

Simply Brilliant.

 

[Chip]

Strictly from an economic standpoint, private prisons have not been shown to be less expensive to operate. What can't be calculated is the human cost of the perverse policy of keeping the prisons full, for PROFIT.

I'm assuming (and in that specific PA situation I'd be wrong) that the perp is going to prison somewhere and it's cheaper to run one 90% full prison than two 45% full prisons. Also that, if southern NH, VT, MA, CT & ME want to pay northern NH to take their prisoners, northern NH will benefit from that. That's all.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Vermont already is shipping prisoners elsewhere as its not polically correct to build prisons in a liberal underfunded state

(emphasis mine)

Really? Isn't that more than a bit provocative? How exactly is Vermont underfunded?

And Chip - if one sees cars with NH, or MA, CT, etc license plates at Vermont establishments, does that automatically mean that residents from those states somehow represent attitudes/cultures out-of-step with the mainstream?

Come on guys - you're more educated/intelligent than that (I hope).

 

[Chip]

And Chip - if one sees cars with NH, or MA, CT, etc license plates at Vermont establishments, does that automatically mean that residents from those states somehow represent attitudes/cultures out-of-step with the mainstream?

Is that about my (love those VT plates !) comment ? I was just citing how business is booming in Littleton in a large part driven by people from VT shopping there. The only mainstream they are out of step with is wanting to pay their state's sales tax. I'm the same. Why should I buy something in CT when I can wait and get it in NH with no sales tax ? Without getting political, there are articles/studies available online that compare VT and NH's retail and ancillary industries.

To the VT underfunded issue: EDIT: Removed article reference.

 

[David Metsky]

[Moderator Hat]
That's enough, knock off the political remarks. It's OK to talk about the north country economy but leave the discussion of private prisons and political corruption elsewhere. We'll start deleting posts and closing threads if this continues. No more warning shots, next time we'll just act.
[/Moderator Hat]