Yury
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Where exactly did it happen?
Another Unprepared Hiker Rescue
- Thread starter peakbagger
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peakbagger
In Rembrance , July 2024
Huntingtons Ravine
Read Second Ascent (Alison Osius) for Hugh Herr's story. Then go lead Stage Fright on Cathedral.
DayTrip
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I recall reading about that. SAR fatalities are obviously a big deal and would be big news but I wonder about injuries on these things like broken bones, sprains and dislocations, frostbite taking appendages, psychological effects, etc. The SAR member survives but has to deal with stuff. Not sure if this is as rare as a fatality or it just doesn't get much press. Can't recall any specific details of such things in these reports. Hopefully, that is because it doesn't happen but I wonder.
DayTrip
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Do you recall if that incident was the frivolous type like we see today or "back in the day" pre-social media and pre-Covid boom were people more prepared because they had to be? Curious to get a perspective on the "stupidity factor" back then versus now from people who were out in the mountains for decades. Has it changed?
One could argue that people were less prepared then vs. now. I know I was. I was caught on top of Bondcliff in the pouring rain with nothing more than a pair of jeans, Timberland boots, a ratty backpack that contained a nylon (not waterproof) jacket, and apple, a granola bar, and a can of Coke.
There will always be outliers and they make the news. We just don't hear about all the ones that don't.
Many people felt that Hugh was not properly prepared and there was a huge debate about the incident b/c of Dow's death. There are a lot of resources covering the debate, including the book I referenced above.
JoshandBaron
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Not having a map played a big factor in them getting lost. Which is evident of them landing up in The Great Gulf.
Mountain Thunder
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Just the idea of the hotel, I know there are inflamed emotions both sides of the issue so I am NOT going to debate. IMO, no hotel please.
If the hotel was being proposed for Adams or some other place that currently has nothing but trails to the top for hikers, I might care more. But it's Mt. Washington, which is already a zoo. The train already left the station (pun intended). Plus, many hotels and other structures exist in the Alps and aren't major distractions as far as I am concerned. So it's a yawn for me.
peakbagger
In Rembrance , July 2024
I guess I will wait until if it becomes a real project to worry about it, plenty of parties keeping their powder dry until then. To date, there has been no filings with the Coos County Planning Board or Zoning Board of Appeals which are both required. The Cog was advised previously that they would be best off starting the process at the ZBA but even that requires a fairly good plan. Given the complexity of the case, I expect it will take several monthly sessions to approve. Given the current date, I dont see it happening in 2024.
BTW, there is an application before the Coos County Planning board regarding additional solar arrays at the Glen House/Auto Road complex.
BTW, there is an application before the Coos County Planning board regarding additional solar arrays at the Glen House/Auto Road complex.
How many rescues have been needed on Madison, Adams, and Jefferson combined compared to the number on Washington alone?
Matters of aesthetics and backcountry management ethics aside (in which people can disagree about whether is a better or worse place due to the manmade structures), I'll there is a good case to be made that the combination of the road, cog, summit building make Washington more dangerous (in terms of numbers). Attractive nuisance and a false sense of safety afforded by the possibility of shelter and/or rescue.
I hear you but, again, that shipped sailed a long time ago. People are so far past being accountable that the hotel will not move the needle.
peakbagger
In Rembrance , July 2024
Someone with a longer term perspective on the summit than I once commented that the one thing that is not taken into account with rescues at the summit is the OBS staff used to be more actively involved with rescues to a much higher extent that they are today. In the Guy Gosselin era, the OBS crew tended to longer term and acted as first responders for rescues near the summit. As the direction and staffing of the summit changed to its present form of young college kids in for the short term to get some resume points, the OBS staff are not trained for S&R and I believe the staff are discouraged from participating in rescues outside of support from the inside of the summit building. It would be interesting to see if this was just one person's viewpoint or an actual factor?.
Back in the Guy Gosselin days, the cog was not in winter operation and my guess is S&R would have occurred from the summit. Usage from the west side would have been far lower. I think the Cog started working in the shop in the winter after the current owner of the Cog bought in as a partner and it was several years before they got permission to plow the base road and attempt winter operations. Prior to the base road being plowed, the cog plowed Mt Clinton road and gated it near RT 302. The gate was usually closed on weekends but usually open during the week and my first Eisenhower winter approach was from the Edmands Path parking lot. A guide who used to do winter traverses did comment that he always made sure to have change as the pay phone at the cog usually worked even though there was no one around so in case of an emergency that was a place to make a call.
Back in the Guy Gosselin days, the cog was not in winter operation and my guess is S&R would have occurred from the summit. Usage from the west side would have been far lower. I think the Cog started working in the shop in the winter after the current owner of the Cog bought in as a partner and it was several years before they got permission to plow the base road and attempt winter operations. Prior to the base road being plowed, the cog plowed Mt Clinton road and gated it near RT 302. The gate was usually closed on weekends but usually open during the week and my first Eisenhower winter approach was from the Edmands Path parking lot. A guide who used to do winter traverses did comment that he always made sure to have change as the pay phone at the cog usually worked even though there was no one around so in case of an emergency that was a place to make a call.
jfb
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JustJoe
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https://publications.americanalpine...uate-Equipment-New-Hampshire-Mount-Washington
There was a great recall of this event by another SAR team member who was a friend of Dows. It was on PBS several years ago. Point being, bad decisions and or recklessness, is not unique to these times.
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peakbagger
In Rembrance , July 2024
If you look around on the web, Hugh Herr has a TED talk where he describes the accident and his remorse.
sierra
Well-known member
Joe Lentini who was on the SAR team and who also led the EMS climbing school also did a Ted talk on the rescue and death of AD. He really describes the overall mood in North Conway after and even meets with Hugh Herr to bury the proverbial hatchet, quite a great talk.
sierra
Well-known member
I don't think there was that big a difference in preparedness to be honest. Many of us as Dug eluded too were a mess as beginners, primarily because the lack of the internet didn't speed up the learning curve. We basically went out, got our ***** handed to us, then did stuff better as we went along in our climbing careers. I would say the biggest difference is that by learning in such a way, it did cement the things we did learn and built a solid base and skillset. Now days people learn online and it's more of a theory to them, just my opinion of course. There were probably just as many mishaps, you just didn't hear about many of them with no internet.
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