Another Unprepared Hiker Rescue

[NHClimber]

I don't think there was that big a difference in preparedness to be honest. Many of us as Dug eluded too were a mess as beginners, primarily because the lack of the internet didn't speed up the learning curve. We basically went out, got our ***** handed to us, then did stuff better as we went along in our climbing careers. I would say the biggest difference is that by learning in such a way, it did cement the things we did learn and built a solid base and skillset. Now days people learn online and it's more of a theory to them, just my opinion of course. There were probably just as many mishaps, you just didn't hear about many of them with no internet.

I mostly agree with all of this. I think ultimately some people just have better innate judgement than others and better utilize available resources to learn how to make better judgments going forward. I don’t say this to mean that such ability makes person A better than person B, but just state it as a fact of nature. And just because some people have better innate judgment doesn’t mean they don’t make big mistakes from time to time. There is an element of luck to everyone’s adventures, but some folks just have a better ability to identify, assess and manage those risks. This is my theory as to why some folks so easily get into what appears to others as very poor decision-making.

 

[jrcinnh]

Someone with a longer term perspective on the summit than I once commented that the one thing that is not taken into account with rescues at the summit is the OBS staff used to be more actively involved with rescues to a much higher extent that they are today. In the Guy Gosselin era, the OBS crew tended to longer term and acted as first responders for rescues near the summit. As the direction and staffing of the summit changed to its present form of young college kids in for the short term to get some resume points, the OBS staff are not trained for S&R and I believe the staff are discouraged from participating in rescues outside of support from the inside of the summit building. It would be interesting to see if this was just one person's viewpoint or an actual factor?.

Back in the Guy Gosselin days, the cog was not in winter operation and my guess is S&R would have occurred from the summit. Usage from the west side would have been far lower. I think the Cog started working in the shop in the winter after the current owner of the Cog bought in as a partner and it was several years before they got permission to plow the base road and attempt winter operations. Prior to the base road being plowed, the cog plowed Mt Clinton road and gated it near RT 302. The gate was usually closed on weekends but usually open during the week and my first Eisenhower winter approach was from the Edmands Path parking lot. A guide who used to do winter traverses did comment that he always made sure to have change as the pay phone at the cog usually worked even though there was no one around so in case of an emergency that was a place to make a call.

A few years ago I summited coincident with another group, a member of that group struggled, reached the summit building dehydrated and vomiting. After some phone calls and banging on the door, crew came out and allowed the victim into the carport, they also coordinated the snow cat to come up and "rescue" the hiker. She was attended to by a medically trained hiker coincidentally summiting. The crew will help but may need a firm request.

 

[peakbagger]

A few years ago I summited coincident with another group, a member of that group struggled, reached the summit building dehydrated and vomiting. After some phone calls and banging on the door, crew came out and allowed the victim into the carport, they also coordinated the snow cat to come up and "rescue" the hiker. She was attended to by a medically trained hiker coincidentally summiting. The crew will help but may need a firm request.

I think the key in that statement is "the crew may" the Obs crew has no legal obligation to assist, they can voluntarily, but do not have to. https://eli-v.pitt.edu/display-laws...vidual, who, in good,acting or failing to act. I think at one point the OBS had a warning to the effect that anyone venturing on Mt Washington should not have the expectation of any refuge or assistance by the crew.

I think Maine has a formal program of vetting S&R volunteers https://www.mainesearchandrescue.org/

 

[peakbagger]

More details from the hiker and rescue crew https://www.yahoo.com/news/hiker-describes-11-hour-ordeal-013916365.html

One observation is his decision to skip the ambulance may not have been that irrational. When I broke my ankle, that quick trip from Wildcat to Berlin was close to $1,000. Insurance covered about $200. The only services I got was a warm ambulance box and conversation, I could have just have well gotten a ride in a private vehicle as one had met me at the bottom. After a prior car accident I got to observe first hand the very high level of pressure applied by first responders and the responding ambulance crew to do a hospital run, including signing a waiver. It sucks that economics has to factor into decisions like these but to a 22 year old guy who may or may not have insurance, it does factor in. My guess is he would have been transported to Littleton and the cost would have been a couple of thousand bucks just for the ride.

 

[dug]

https://www.boston.com/news/local-n...mount-washington-admits-he-was-underprepared/

His side of the story. Let you read the entire story, seems to not dispute anything. Interesting, PB, the reason he declined the ambulance was just what you referenced.

 

[DayTrip]

If you look around on the web, Hugh Herr has a TED talk where he describes the accident and his remorse.

I found a ton of Ted Talks from Hugh but they all relate to bionics, artificial limbs, etc. Was that a result of his accident? I feel like as I was scrolling the videos I may have watched this video awhile back and some of the cobwebs have fallen off my aging memory.

 

[DayTrip]

I think the key in that statement is "the crew may" the Obs crew has no legal obligation to assist, they can voluntarily, but do not have to. https://eli-v.pitt.edu/display-laws?role=All Roles&state=NH&scenario=Not Sure&exportpdf#:~:text=Good Samaritan Law,-RSA 508:12&text=An individual, who, in good,acting or failing to act. I think at one point the OBS had a warning to the effect that anyone venturing on Mt Washington should not have the expectation of any refuge or assistance by the crew.

I think Maine has a formal program of vetting S&R volunteers https://www.mainesearchandrescue.org/

I'm sure they have to do this otherwise everyone and their brother would be knocking on the door for the OBS crew at the slightest level of discomfort and want a ride down, maybe get a hot dog and a bumper sticker in the gift shop, etc. I'm sure that would get out of hand pretty fast.

I'd like to think if there was a truly dire situation at their door they would do the right thing every time.

 

[Ear Drum]

Here's another news item about this Washington / Lakes dungeon rescue. This has some quotes from the hiker, F&G officers, and statement from Presby of the Cog. The hiker:

“I am extremely grateful to all 11 of the men who saved my life Saturday and am also extremely sorry that they had to risk their lives to save me,” Matthes told The Associated Press. “I certainly made poor decisions and was underprepared for this hike.”

Hiker describes 11-hour ordeal after falling on Mount Washington, admits he was ‘underprepared’
https://www.bangordailynews.com/202...tbTxrNpXXnqX561Ll2Rsjj5DlGaLhEmsrWypFlszq_wiE


New Hampshire Fish and Game conservation officer Levi Frye, left, and Jeremy Broughton, from Androscoggin Valley Search and Rescue, prepare to head out on a rescue mission at the Cog Railway base station, Saturday in Mount Washington, New Hampshire. A team of rescuers used the Cog Railway to shave off time but it still took more than 10 hours to save a hiker in conditions that included sustained winds topping 90 mph. Credit: Sgt. Glen Lucas / New Hampshire Fish and Game via AP

 

[JoshandBaron]

I feel like there are a lot of links to information posted here and no one seems to be looking at any of them.

 

[Andrew]

I recall reading about that. SAR fatalities are obviously a big deal and would be big news but I wonder about injuries on these things like broken bones, sprains and dislocations, frostbite taking appendages, psychological effects, etc. The SAR member survives but has to deal with stuff. Not sure if this is as rare as a fatality or it just doesn't get much press. Can't recall any specific details of such things in these reports. Hopefully, that is because it doesn't happen but I wonder.

They do. It can be difficult to get involved in these discussions as it can open up old wounds. Look at the picture of the pack that Levi Frye of NHF&G was carrying on his back about to board The Cog. I always listened jealously to ultralight hikers describe their gear loads; I could never relate as I always had to carry not only for myself, but at least one potential patient. All my former colleagues and I suffer terrible back pain.
Our workplace insurance liability advisors would provide great workshops on how any workplace injury was avoidable with proper planning and action. He didn't like when I would challenge that notion and describe carrying a 300 lb. patient down a mountain where protecting the patient in your care is the priority. People would often just drop into a hole and you hoped it wasn't too far down and they could keep carrying. Rescuers often have to let go of a litter so as not to bring it down with you when falling, so that load is immediately transferred to those still on the litter. With all that said, the work attracts a unique breed that finds satisfaction for some reason.

 

[jrcinnh]

I'm sure they have to do this otherwise everyone and their brother would be knocking on the door for the OBS crew at the slightest level of discomfort and want a ride down, maybe get a hot dog and a bumper sticker in the gift shop, etc. I'm sure that would get out of hand pretty fast.

I'd like to think if there was a truly dire situation at their door they would do the right thing every time.

Absolutely, I'd always been told that they won't help. But also understood that they are human beings and would not knowingly let a person die. It's important that people don't hike up assuming they have refuge, too many reckless people already.

 

[NHClimber]

I found a ton of Ted Talks from Hugh but they all relate to bionics, artificial limbs, etc. Was that a result of his accident? I feel like as I was scrolling the videos I may have watched this video awhile back and some of the cobwebs have fallen off my aging memory.

Since this is low-hanging fruit, I'll bite. If you read the book I cited or the American Alpine article that was cited by others, you'll get the full story. Long story short, he lost both legs below the thigh to frostbite and needed prosthetic legs back before the tech was as developed as it is today. He went on to run an artificial limb group at MIT and pioneered new technology in the field. He also went on to make some crazy first ascents in rock climbing, including Stage Fright (5.12x) on Cathedral. I'm doing this off memory so others can correct my facts if they are wrong. Did he redeem himself? Only you can be the judge of that. I met him a few times. He was polite but seemed inwardly intense/absorbed.

 

[dave.m]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attractive_nuisance_doctrine

I've gotten to the point in life where I consider anybody under the age of 50 to be a kid.

In that light, perhaps families of the dead should start suing the owners of these staffed building, railroads and roads?

As Rick Wilcox pointed out back in the 90s after the Tinkham rescue attempt, the Whites are not and should not be like Baxter and the price of Freedom of the Hills is that people can park their car and walk to the death in short order.

That said, I continue to think having staffed buildings and the hope of mechanized rescue creates an attractive nuisance effect. The road, cog and observatory were on, say, Moosilauke or Lafayette or any number of other peaks, we would be talking about the high rates of rescues on that mountain instead, IMO.

 

[NHClimber]

We certainly do not need more litigation in our society.

 

[sierra]

I found a ton of Ted Talks from Hugh but they all relate to bionics, artificial limbs, etc. Was that a result of his accident? I feel like as I was scrolling the videos I may have watched this video awhile back and some of the cobwebs have fallen off my aging memory.

While descending into the Great Gulf, Hugh fell into a stream soaking his legs. They froze solid that night. Rule number 1 when trying to get un-lost in the winter, don't fall into any water.

 

[skiguy]

https://www.wmur.com/article/mount-...uthnjoukqpmPriyETJoqWuTmJgQUmGXzeejZV8Z0UIRCE

 

[dave.m]

We certainly do not need more litigation in our society.

Riiiight. Because settling grievances outside of the rule of law is good for society?

 

[peakbagger]

And now Outside Magazine weighs in

https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/exploration-survival/mount-washington-rescue-report/

One guided ascent of Mt Washington apparently makes them expert on things Mt Washington

 

[JoshandBaron]

And now Outside Magazine weighs in

https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/exploration-survival/mount-washington-rescue-report/

One guided ascent of Mt Washington apparently makes them expert on things Mt Washington

and the temperature plunged to -52 degrees Fahrenheit

I get unreasonably annoyed when people conflate windchill with the actual temperature.

 

[KRooney]

I get unreasonably annoyed when people conflate windchill with the actual temperature.

It irrigates me as well. Seems to be more frequent this year than in years past.