AT in VT

[jrbren]

FWIW, when I lived in (the Champlain Valley) Vt I like to use the Pharaoh Lakes wilderness and Lake George area (Tongue Range) in NY as mud season hiking alternatives to the VT high peaks. I think there is a window to hike the Whiteface (NY) auto road before it opens to auto traffic as well. To be frank, if I was looking for hiking alternative suggestions to be surrogate for the long trail and someone offered up Mt Philo I would not ask that person for hiking advice a second time.

 

[Early Bird]

To be frank, if I was looking for hiking alternative suggestions to be surrogate for the long trail and someone offered up Mt Philo I would not ask that person for hiking advice a second time.

Just for the record, I am not familiar with any of the trail in my previous post. I took them from the GMC mud season web page.

 

[sdways01]

This is from the GMC site. I hope you might find it helpful when considering your VT hikes prior to Memorial Day. If you click the link, all of the alternatives will also have links.

Thanks for the info. After some clicking around I did find that list. I was hoping for a more definitive list of what is officially closed though. But every bit helps. I wasn't planning out going out and mucking up muddy trails if those were the conditions, but I do still enjoy getting out hiking at all times of the year. I try to do my part in making sure I always leave the trails as nice as I found them. That means year round, not just in spring. Mud doesn't only happen when snow melts after all.

 

[HH1]

No one will write anyone a ticket for hiking on closed Vermont State Park trails during mud season.

Minutes ago I just exchanged emails with a manager there.

My two questions:

"How are the trail closures indicated?"

Answer: "There are signs at the trailheads for trails on Mt. Mansfield & Camel’s Hump, as well as the other spots along the AT/LT."

Question: "What is the fine for hiking on a trail closed in mud season in 2015?"

Answer: "There won’t be anyone issuing tickets, but the Green Mountain Club caretakers will likely be on summits educating folks."

For more info, contact Vermont State Parks at [email protected]

 

[Driver8]

If you want to bag a VT 4K or two in mud season, you could do Killington via the gravel service roads of the ski resort, if they allow that - that'll probably depend on how late the resort is open. Perhaps a similar hike at Mts. Ellen and Mansfield - I don't know those peaks, so can't speak for them. K, I know, has only the last 0.1 to the summit from the ski resort side as trail, and it's almost all rock, so that might be ok.

I hiked up Killington via ski trails two years ago in June - you trade off blah local ski resort views for excellent distant views to the Whites and along the Greens on ascent. The summit has superb views for about 180 degrees from different locations, SW to NE, and the ski lodge/restaurant up top, that area affords views of the remaining 180. Great views of the Adirondacks, and the largeness of the Whites, relative to other mountains in the area, were big impressions from my trip.

 

[Stan]

I'd say rup asked a reasonable question that somehow elicited a response like this one and a couple others. IMNSHO these are a bit of an overreaction and arrogant.

I don't believe anyone here is seeking information for the purpose of putting up oil rigs or wind towers. Most seem to have the common sense to know when or where to hike or not, or ask. And I don't believe most of us have not crossed that line that someone somewhere could find fault in.

I suggest that anyone pointing fingers should look at where the other fingers are pointing. That sign is a good example.

 

[Tom Rankin]

Hmmm, I don't know where this sign is, but if it were at a summit, I would put it in the 'Ironic Sign' category. The worst offender is a tribute to John Burroughs, at the summit of Slide Mountain, which ironically quotes Burroughs with, 'Here the works of man dwindle'. Yeah, thanks, they would have, until you put this sign here!

 

[TJsName]

Hmmm, I don't know where this sign is, but if it were at a summit, I would put it in the 'Ironic Sign' category. The worst offender is a tribute to John Burroughs, at the summit of Slide Mountain, which ironically quotes Burroughs with, 'Here the works of man dwindle'. Yeah, thanks, they would have, until you put this sign here!

To that end, the exhibits on Mt Washington explaining how fragile the alpine environment are fairly ironic. Maybe don't build a road, train track, several buildings, and a network of hiking trails then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0f1Aqk1XHI

 

[Driver8]

To that end, the exhibits on Mt Washington explaining how fragile the alpine environment are fairly ironic. Maybe don't build a road, train track, several buildings, and a network of hiking trails then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0f1Aqk1XHI

Except that when those were built, for the most part, ppl were unaware of this.

 

[rup]

Back from the w/e hike. We are doing the AT by section. Have done PA - Mass Pike, and Moosilauke - 100 mile. Worked on N of Mass Pike this weekend - muddy. And the Mon rain was nasty. Probably won't get to VT before Mem w/e anyway, but thanks for the guidance on VT trails. We can adapt to 'conditions'.

Hope to hit Ktaadn by summer end. It will be my last 4000 ftr - a quest that began in 1972, and delayed by heart surgery, and 2 arthritic hips. But, we'll be there, mud or not.

 

[sierra]

To be honest I just stumbled on this thread because I'm bored at work, it's fasinating to me. First off, Ive only hiked in VT once (camels Hump) never felt like going back. I guess maybe I'm naive, I was not aware many simply do not hike in mud season. Granted, I kind of hike off the grid so to speak, alot of you know each other and whats up, Im just "out there" on my own. I hike in mud season and never really gave it much thought, ( just being honest). I am glad for one thing, I dont live in VT or NY. I do make an effort to rock hop when I can through mud, and rarely if ever step into the woods to avoid water or mud. But to go as far as closing trails, I would not be into that all. Live free or die, what a great motto.

 

[TJsName]

Except that when those were built, for the most part, ppl were unaware of this.

Correct - hence the . I certainly don't think that a message given in a hypocritical manner inherently has no value, it just has the added perk of being ironic. In fact, a lot of the good advice handed out in the forum likely comes from people who should have heeded it themselves but did not.

 

[Remix]

FWIW, when I lived in (the Champlain Valley) Vt I like to use the Pharaoh Lakes wilderness and Lake George area (Tongue Range) in NY as mud season hiking alternatives to the VT high peaks. I think there is a window to hike the Whiteface (NY) auto road before it opens to auto traffic as well. To be frank, if I was looking for hiking alternative suggestions to be surrogate for the long trail and someone offered up Mt Philo I would not ask that person for hiking advice a second time.

Tongue range dries out quickly but Pharaoh wilderness? On humid days in the summer I have found quite a bit of mud in certain parts. Pretty sure one of those chi chi flies kept up with me from Pharaoh lake all the way to the state campground where they canoe "camp".

 

[jrbren]

Tongue range dries out quickly but Pharaoh wilderness? On humid days in the summer I have found quite a bit of mud in certain parts. Pretty sure one of those chi chi flies kept up with me from Pharaoh lake all the way to the state campground where they canoe "camp".

I always went to Pharaoh lakes in winter or mud season, most often 2H April/1H May, so never had an issues with bugs. More specifically, I hiked Pharaoh mt from either Crane pond or from the south (done both several times). The other hike I did several times was Treadway mt from Putnam pond. I can't speak for other hikes in the region. I do not recall any issues with mud out of the ordinary that I would find on any northeast trail in any other non snow season. Given the size of the Putnam pond campground paved parking lot and all the water in the region, it takes little imagination for me to envision ginornmous crowds tons of bugs after memorial day, so I have not really had a strong urge to go there in summer. Not to mention other competing hiking venues are "in season".

 

[Remix]

It is a wonderous place. I have hiked from Putnam Pond to the Pharoah Lake in the summer, on a hot humid day. I do recall one trail heading down to the lake being on top or along side a brook. And it had been raining....

As I made my around the lake, my desire to jump in was diminished by two of the largest leaches that I have ever seen. Returning, I became so wet that I was chafing. Thank goodness for complete darkness and a gentle evening breeze--I had cotton undergarments and had to let ALL of my clothes dry before I could take any more steps.

 

[hammerhead]

Three pages on mud season etiquette. Too funny! Just use common sense!

 

[Tom Rankin]

Three pages on mud season etiquette. Too funny! Just use common sense!

While 3 pages might seem a lot to you (we're both guilty of adding to it now! ), there is no harm in an ongoing thread that educates people as to what mud season is. When I started hiking, I had to be told what mud season was, and why not to hike certain trails. When you are standing at a dry trailhead on a lovely spring day, you think the 'trail closed' sign must have meant several weeks ago. Or 'what harm can I do if I just hike?!'.

Other recurring threads are ok too:

"It may seem like spring in Boston, but it's still Winter in the Pressies"

"Should I bring snowshoes?"

 

[Raven]

In my experience, hiking in mud season in Vermont is totally undesirable. I hike in NH every April and often for multiple peaks. It's muddy, wet, snowy, and not necessarily fun, but the trails don't see the level of mud VT sees. Without exaggeration, parts of the Long Trail and AT in VT have been as muddy in Summer as many NH spring hikes.

I don't agree with trail closures and fall into Sierra's camp based on his post, however I do think it's best to stay off those trails to avoid erosion and best to honor those requests. The reasoning behind it makes sense. Quite frankly hiking through mud pits this time of year is monumentally challenging, cold, wet, dirty, and not really enjoyable. Even in NH, where the mud is not chest deep, I have to pick my routes, days, and gear carefully. VT gets more mud. Seriously.

I think the biggest surprise in this thread is that Earlybird got flamed for a helpful post. Wow, I mean I get it when someone flames me or someone else on here that quite frankly says controversial or opinionated things sometimes, but EB never says anything that's not nice or helpful on here!

Okay, back across the Connecticut River for me....

Keep Vermont Weird.

 

[MadRiver]

Why exactly is this even an issue? VT simply asks that you do not trash their trails during mud season. I do not find that to be an unreasonable request. Yet, others seem to be under the impression that rules whether codified or not, do not apply to certain individuals. Did I miss something at the briefing?

 

[sierra]

No one will write anyone a ticket for hiking on closed Vermont State Park trails during mud season.

Minutes ago I just exchanged emails with a manager there.

My two questions:

"How are the trail closures indicated?"

Answer: "There are signs at the trailheads for trails on Mt. Mansfield & Camel’s Hump, as well as the other spots along the AT/LT."

Question: "What is the fine for hiking on a trail closed in mud season in 2015?"

Answer: "There won’t be anyone issuing tickets, but the Green Mountain Club caretakers will likely be on summits educating folks."

For more info, contact Vermont State Parks at [email protected]

Just curious if the trails are closed, how exactly are the GMC getting to the summits? I'm sure they get to slide on the rules for the sake of education. Kind of like in NH, where you cannot camp above treeline, but you can stay at a hut that sleeps 200 people smack dab in the most sensitive Alpine tundra in the state, to " learn" about how precious the land is, and why you shouldnt camp there. Oh the Irony.