bear canisters

[duxdog]

I was hiking this past wknd and came across a DEC police ranger. He was carrying a bear canister and said next yr they would be required equipment for overnight campers. Has anyone heard about this????

thanks
jim T
#4447 and NPT 1998

 

[duxdog]

i'm replying to my own post. I just read "bears at lake Colden" and saw my answer. Canisters will be needed next yr. However, if anyone has more details on this, please let me know.

thanks
jim t

 

[MrOysterhead]

I talked to a shotgun wielding ranger in Avalanche Pass on Memorial Day and he told us that bear cannisters would be required equipment in the High Peaks beginning next summer. He said there would be fines and forced turn arounds if youd didn't have one...sounds like they're gonna take it seriously if thats true.

peace
Oysterhead

 

[ALGonquin Bob]

Sounds like there will many more ranger-camper conflicts next year, as you can be sure that some hikers will forget the canisters, or just refuse to comply. I still haven't seen canisters for sale at any of the local outfitters. I would prefer something smaller than what I have been renting. Much more to come...

 

[Guinness]

I just ordered a new bear canister and will use it for all my back country trips. However, this will be an abrasive issue with many backpackers as many will feel it is unjustified. The mandatory use of canisters mostly is a response to poor choices many backpackers have made. Just this past week I stayed at Feldspar Leanto for three nights and all the garbage that was strewn behind the leanto and toilet areas troubled me. I saw no less than 5 large garbage bags, several dehydrated food bags, even a pair of rather large levi's. Let’s not forget all the small tear off corners of food packages.

It was not always like this. Over the past few years it appears to be on the increase. Leaving trash behind is not only a distraction, but it offers enticements to bears and other animals. We used bear canisters and there were no problems. The campers that used bags were targets. We have conditioned bears by our actions. I won't defend the actions of an aggressive bear - shoot the damn thing. But we are in the bears backyard and their actions are a result of our carelessness.

Here are a couple of links of interest
Bear Resistant Canister Letter
Bear Resistant Canisters
Packing Bear Resistant Canisters

 

[ADackR]

although i disagree with the manditory canister use and no ohter method as a back up.. i do agree that this will slow and eventually stop the distruction caused by the hiker. yes, not the bear but the hiker.

too many times have i come to an area where a bear has taken a bag and strewn the trash all over. last year while at Flowed lands i packed over to the Lake Colden Ranger outpost, two backpacks FULL of garbage... i can't believe the disregard a hiker has for the environment.

while it is our responsibility to properly hang a bear bag, it is also our responsibilty to pack out garbage. it is also our responsibility to educate ourselves on other techniques also. don't limit your self to a standard way.

this should get interesting next summer when people start getting turned away for not having a canister....

it's good that the bears a gone come fall and winter, as these times are the times when i only enter the high peaks to camp.

 

[Mark]

I'm not thrilled about new regulations on camping, but I see no alternative to mandating bear canisters in these problem areas. Bear bags are obviously not the answer. Even the properly hung bags are falling victim to bears. I don’t want to be hassled by bears whe know where to get an easy meal.

I’ll be using bear canisters in the High Peaks regardless of any new regulations. I like the convenience of not having to hang a bear bag and I’m not concerned about the extra weight or bulk. I’m just wondering how they will enforce a regulation requiring them. Often, my brothers and I will stay in the area for a couple nights. One canister should hold all of our food and other attractive items. But how will a ranger know we are only staying for two nights? Will everyone be required to empty their packs to prove all of their food will fit into their canister(s)? I wonder how they enforce bear canister use out west. Anyone know?

 

[pudgy_groundhog]

I'm not sure exactly how they enforce the bear cannisters out west, but the national parks at least require you to have a backcountry permit. If you get a permit ahead of time they send literature regarding regulations, bears, etc. and when you pick up the permit they go over it again and you can rent a bear cannister from the office. It doesn't mean people will always take a cannister, but it's probably easier to educate and get the info out to people heading in to the backcountry.

At the really popular backcountry sites they also have bear boxes, which I wish they would put in the ADKs, but there is no plan to do so. I find the boxes preferable to lugging around a cannister. =P

 

[Tramper Al]

New England Bear precautions

Last month, I encountered bear lockers at campsites, a first for me in New England. I saw (and used) them at each of the AMC campsites and shelters in the New Hampshire Mahoosucs along the AT. As I have been section hiking the NE AT for a few years, I can only guess that this is new. Are they all over the place now?

Prior to this year, the only other place in the New England woods that I remember seeing fixed bear facilities (cables in this case) was at the October Mountain Lean-To on the AT in Massachusetts.

I have to say, I do prefer the ease of using a locker vs. hanging a bag. Obviously, I will have to keep up my bag-hanging skills for less developed backcountry sites.

 

[spencer]

Don't forget the cable at Chimney Pond. That's been around for a while. Someone know exactly when it was installed?

I first noticed the bright green bear lockers in the Mahoosucs a bit over a year ago.

spencer

 

[Papa Bear]

Re: New England Bear precautions

Are they all over the place now?

Prior to this year, the only other place in the New England woods that I remember seeing fixed bear facilities (cables in this case) was at the October Mountain Lean-To on the AT in Massachusetts.

When we did sections in 2002 from the DWG to Maine, New Jersey had them at every shelter, but they were not anywhere else . When we did the Mahoosucs, our first stop was Gentian Pond Shelter which did not have any at that time, nor did any in Maine.

Pb

 

[jbrown]

I'm sure the bear lockers have been discussed in another thread, but I'll toss in my 2 pennies anyway. I, too, have seen the disregard that people have for nature that ADackR described, and have packed out other's crap more than once. I like the idea of mandating bear canisters, but I see the same people who contribute to polluting the backwoods looking at a bear locker and thinking ," oooooh, big trashcan!" There are enough ways people can ruin the experience that is backpacking without giving them one more.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

Don't forget the cable at Chimney Pond.

Yep. A beautiful simple, effective system. I sent this to some friends at the DE/C, where it was circulated. Nobody there has seen such a system.

http://newmud.comm.uottawa.ca/~pete/food2.jpg

I have heard of one problem with them. It can be difficult to hang your food after drinking several beers..... so I've heard.. no direct experience, of course.

 

[Stan]

If it takes a canister to backpack in the High Peaks then that's what I'll get but I can't help but think that conflicts between campers and rangers (especially those toting shotguns) ... not to mention bears, could be minimized with better education on bear and food protocol, better enforcement against conditions like ADK4487 observed at Feldspar Leanto, and alternate storage options, such as the bear line at Chimney Pond, at selected destinations. I have a construction job box that I'd donate to a site if someone wants to lug it in.

I don't relish the thought of carrying something extra ... I mean, if you're going to carry a canister wouldn't it be more fun if it were a keg instead?

 

[WalksWithBlackflies]

Orignially posted by Mark:
Even the properly hung bags are falling victim to bears

If they we're taken by bears, they weren't properly hung. Bears have to obey the same rules of physics as everything else in this universe. They can only climb on a branch of a certain diameter... they can only jump or reach a certain distance.

Am I the only person who knows how to hang a bear bag? The closest I've come to having a bear take my food was at Uphill Lean-to. The bear followed my sting back to the tree and tried, unsuccessfully, to scratch through the string.

I admit I've probably gotten lucky a couple of times when I hung my food on a less-than-perfect branch/tree, but I also located my food 1/4 mile from the nearest camp. True, the bears can sniff out the food if they wanted to, but why would they go through the trouble when there are 10 pinatas within 50 feet from each other at a campsite?

If often camp overnight with a bivy sack, and everything fits nicely in my day pack. I won't be able to fit a sleeping bag AND a bear canister in my day pack. Does this mean that I'll have to hike to Couchie with a full-size backpack? That should be easy manuvering through the cripplebrush.

I'd be much more in favor of the cable system described by Spencer and Pete... although now you get into the "Forever Wild" issues.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

I'd be much more in favor of the cable system described by Spencer and Pete... although now you get into the "Forever Wild" issues.

Well, it's not just that. (EG existing cable systems at Marcy Dam).

It is more a case of people being able to camp anywhere. Cable systems, boxes, etc only work when you have camping areas that are close by.

Where in the High Peaks area would you install them? Near every lean-to and every designated campsite? That would be a heck of a lot of cable systems!

If they aren't installed everywhere, will they have much of an effect? Maybe. How many experienced people have lost their food at, say, Flowed Lands.. or Slant Rock.

 

[ADackR]

If they aren't installed everywhere, will they have much of an effect? Maybe. How many experienced people have lost their food at, say, Flowed Lands.. or Slant Rock.

not me...

counter balance method always and never use of the cables...too many bags on there at one time. it throws of the balance of each bag when the bear is jiggiling the cable.

anyway, like what rico said

If they we're taken by bears, they weren't properly hung. Bears have to obey the same rules of physics as everything else in this universe. They can only climb on a branch of a certain diameter... they can only jump or reach a certain distance.

you need to take the time to look and find the proper option.

 

[percious]

No one has mentioned the fact that the chord used to hang the bags is often tampered with by the bears. When I had my food stolen in Colden 2 years ago, a the bear riped through my rope, which allowed the food to drop. (I did pack my garbage out, over Algonquin!)

The bears are smart. At marcy dam, I have heard of stories such that a cub would sit on a mama bear's back in order to reach the food on the provided cable. This technique can probably be used at many cables currently supplied by the DEC.

I think the bear canister is the only way to go, and I agree, people will leave garbage in a provided locker.

-percious

 

[Mark]

If they we're taken by bears, they weren't properly hung. Bears have to obey the same rules of physics as everything else in this universe. They can only climb on a branch of a certain diameter... they can only jump or reach a certain distance.

Ask the rangers how many "properly hung" bear bags have been taken by bears. The problem is that bears are smart about getting to the bags. The old rules about hanging bear bags don't stop these bears. They have learned to follow your line down to where it is tied off and claw down the tie off. They have learned to push on the trees holding up your bag to bounce the bag off or break the line. They have learned to send cubs out on thin branches. They have even learned to send cubs out on the cables over Marcy dam. (They have pictures of this at the visitor's center!) They have taught cubs to climb up on Mom's back to reach a counter balanced bag.

Yes, I suppose it is still theoretically possible to "properly" hang a bear bag to thwart the efforts of even an experienced bear. However, few campers are capable of this or will bother to take the time to do it right. My point is that those who think they are correctly hanging their bear bag don’t know how clever the High Peaks bears have become and are losing their food.

From an enforcement point of view, I can see why bear canisters is the easiest and most enforceable solution.

 

[crazymama]

Love my bear cannister...

I've hung many a bear bag over the past 30 years. Some were properly hung, and I'm sure some were not. Nevertheless, I never lost one to a bear. I guess I was lucky.

One of the main reasons that I invested in a bear cannister recently is that I find hanging a bear bag a royal pain in the ass. I LOVE my bear cannister. Its not that heavy (about 2 lb), fits nicely in my pack, and is so much easier to deal with than the bear bag. Now that I am hearing about bears getting bags (even those on established cables), there is the added benefit of peace of mind.