bear canisters

[Bob]

Am I the only person who knows how to hang a bear bag?

I tried to stay out of this one, BUT-
It is impossible to hang your food and make it bear proof. Unless you have a steel cable they cannot bite through, and counterbalance correctly. Given time, they WILL get your food. The best you can hope to do is buy time so you can scare them off in the middle of the night.
I used to hang my food, "never got raided" but after personally seeing what they are capable of realize I was just plain lucky.

If the branch is too thin to climb on, they will either send a cub out, or just break the branch off. I've seen bears push trees over (at Lake Colden- it was an old, weak tree but popular with food hanger campers).


I'll repeat it again- If you hang food and not been raided, you were lucky, or easier sources were nearby. The easier sources will dry up when the canister regs start.

The bears grow smarter every day, they are as dexterious as a raccoon- a very strong raccoon.

I HATE my canister, but realize it is necessary in certain areas.

I agree with Mark !!!

 

[WalksWithBlackflies]

I think you guys are giving bears WAY too much credit. I know they're very clever... scary clever, but when hanging a bag, think like a bear. The reason they raid bags is because they can SAFELY obtain more calories from the food inside than they expend raiding the bag. Remember that a substantial injury to a wild animal usually means death. The harder you make it for them, the more likely they'll give up or not even attempt. I'm more worried about the red squirrels, flying squirrels, and martens than I am bears. Still haven't been able to figure out the flying squirrels...

True, canisters are very effective... but I hate how society always has to cater to the lowest common denominator. Why not inform the inexperienced and actually enforce the regs already in the books? Little by little, these additional regulations take away the "freedom of the hills". Social commentary over

Personally, my biggest question is how to overnight and then thru-hike using a herdpath or bushwhack? Can't use a day pack because the canister won't fit w/ a sleeping bag. Can't hike a "close" herdpath or bushwhack with a full-size bag.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Lockers

Out west, I've heard a few stories of bears "hiding" and waiting for someone to open the locker and out he comes at full speed : grrrr. The camper usually just runs away and the bear gets the food...In an open area, I kinda like the long smooth metallic poles equipped with hangers where you use a long stick to hang your food.

 

[SAR-EMT40]

I bought one several years ago (the same one that is in the DEC pictures) and have used it on several occasions in the Whites. Its a pain to carry. Large and unwieldy but, it has never been defeated and it has the teeth marks on it to prove it. I left it once as a food cache to resupply with. It laid in the woods for about 4 days. It had been moved and abused by I don't know how many animals (some with obviously large cainine teeth) but it was undefeated. It wasn't even close. I hate that it will be mandatory but it seems like one of the few systems that is consistentaly effective.

All the usual disclaimers apply.

Keith

 

[Mark Driscoll]

rico, I agree with your social commentary!!!

I never need a 6 day supply of food so to carry a large container would be a lot of wasted space and weight for a one or 2 night trip. Does anyone make a smaller unit or do they need to be that big so bears can not get their mouth around it?

Mark

 

[Tramper Al]

What canister? Or Ursack?

Hey,

What specifically are you people over in New York using for your bear canister?

A quick search and I found 3 canisters, all very similar in size (700 cu in), weight (2lb 6 oz and up), and price ($70-80). The best of these seemed to be the 'Bear Vault'.

I have an older (yellow) Ursack that I know no longer makes the grade at National Parks with bear/people problems. It does work great for the small creatures, though. Is the newer Ursack (TKO?) or any other soft bag effective enough for your smart ADK bears?

 

[Mark]

I never need a 6 day supply of food so to carry a large container would be a lot of wasted space and weight for a one or 2 night trip. Does anyone make a smaller unit or do they need to be that big so bears can not get their mouth around it?

Mark

Do you always camp solo? If not, pool the food from your group and use one canister. I don't know of any smaller canisters for the reason you suggested. Anything smaller and the bear will just carry it off. The bear may not get the food, but neither will you.

Now if someone came up with a very lightweight canister (I'm thinking high tech composite materials), at least weight would not be an issue. It would still have to be bulky, but you could always fill us the excess space with other gear from your pack. Stay away from packing clothes that would pick up food odors.

I have an older (yellow) Ursack that I know no longer makes the grade at National Parks with bear/people problems. It does work great for the small creatures, though. Is the newer Ursack (TKO?) or any other soft bag effective enough for your smart ADK bears?

I've heard of bears getting into the Ursacks. From the sounds of the proposal only solid canisters will meet the new regulation. I'm guessing NYSDEC will just follow the lessons learned out west for bear proof containers.

 

[Tramper Al]

Thanks

Thanks for that link. It seems clear that the 8 oz Ursack TKO doesn't make the grade for the DEC:

"Non-rigid containers or sacks are not considered bear resistant canisters under the proposed regulation."

 

[percious]

I believe this will offer a couple of answers to a few posts here:

http://wild-ideas.net/products.html

These guys offer two different style canisters (expedition and weekender). The expedition is 2lb 5 oz, and the weekender is 1lb 15 oz.

Both containers are approved by the Sierra Interagency Black Bear group, so they are likely to be approved by the ADK DEC. The bear vault, on the other hand, only has a conditional approval.

http://www.sierrawildbear.net/foodstorage/approvedcontainers.htm

Get ready to fork over some cash for your cache. These hitech canisters start at $195. Im going to carry an extra 3 oz, and stick with my garcia. Maybe if I hit the lotto...

-percious

 

[crazymama]

I think that if it is small enough for the bear to get his jaws around it, then he can break it open.

 

[Mark Driscoll]

Hi,

I assume this new DEC regulation will include the winter. Pete?

Mark

 

[lumberzac]

I believe this will offer a couple of answers to a few posts here:

http://wild-ideas.net/products.html

These guys offer two different style canisters (expedition and weekender). The expedition is 2lb 5 oz, and the weekender is 1lb 15 oz.

Both containers are approved by the Sierra Interagency Black Bear group, so they are likely to be approved by the ADK DEC. The bear vault, on the other hand, only has a conditional approval.

http://www.sierrawildbear.net/foodstorage/approvedcontainers.htm

Get ready to fork over some cash for your cache. These hitech canisters start at $195. Im going to carry an extra 3 oz, and stick with my garcia. Maybe if I hit the lotto...

-percious

They have one that's even smaller than the weekender that is called the custom I believe. It isn't on the website so you have to call and ask about it. I got to look at one last weekend. The nice thing with the custom is that it fit in my Golite Race and I would still have room for the rest of my gear. The other canisters won’t fit inside of the pack and there is really no good way to strap one to the outside of the pack. I guess next year if I want t camp in the Eastern High Peaks Wilderness I’ll have to spend $200 on a bear canister or buy a cheaper canister and buy a new pack.

 

[WalksWithBlackflies]

This may be a stupid question, but how do you find your bear canister after the bear "plays" with it for half an hour? Do you tie them to trees, rocks, etc.?

 

[Mark]

You are not supposed to tie a bear canister to anything. Any rope or strap attached to the canister will give the bear something to hold onto and carry the canister off.

Leave the canister on the ground in a shallow depression. The bear will bat it around, but usually won't be able to move it too far since it will tend to roll back into the depression. You want to avoid placements where the canister might roll away (side of a hill) or get batted into a stream (they sink).

Most bears will get bored or frustrated with attempts to get into a canister and move on quickly. With more unsuccessful encounters with canisters, bears may become trained to just leave them alone knowing they have no chance to get to the food inside.

Most campers apply some florescent or reflective tape to the outside of the canister to make them easier to find if they are moved. If you use reflective tape, put on your headlamp when looking for it. With the light being so close to your eyes, the reflective tape should glow like crazy, even during the day.

 

[Jay H]

Speaking of this mandatory bear canister rule in the Adirondacks, do any of you know whether this is just going to be a law in the high peaks and will that be required for non-backpacking activities? Like if I wanted to go kayak touring, fitting one of those hardshell bear canisters in a kayak will be impossible and strapping it to a deck is not advisable due to wind, rolling, etc. issues.

Jay

 

[Grumpy]

. . .Like if I wanted to go kayak touring, fitting one of those hardshell bear canisters in a kayak will be impossible and strapping it to a deck is not advisable due to wind, rolling, etc. issues.

Just remember how the bear problem got going in the High Peaks: campers thinking that hanging bear bags was a sufficient precaution. The Sage said, "those who fail to learn from history are bound to repeat it."

G.

 

[Jay H]

Grumpy, you're speaking to the choir. I don't want to get into a discussion again about bear canisters. I'm just wondering if the new regulations are going to be in effect for areas outside the high peaks...

No way in hell am I going to be able to fit any of the hardshell bear canisters in my kayak unless it's the flexible aramid/kevlar varieties like the Ursack or something similar. I'm not arguing the merits or demerits of such law or the use of bear canisters!

Jay