Bear Cannisters - Let the circus begin

[Doc McPeak]

Hmmm......... High Peaks - circus...... Peakbagr, you just gave me an idea! Has anyone done the ADK 46 wearing a clown suit?

I did the Winter 46 wearing clown's feet ...

I've used a Garcia in the High Peaks for the last three years, but have trouble with the space. Then again, when going on a one nighter I have trouble with the space! I am getting better though, especially with season approaching and putting myself on a backwoods diet plan.

As ambivalent as I am about rules and regs, I think this is a great call. All you have to do is spend some time in Yosemite to see how well bear cannisters with a good strategy can temper a bad bear situation and serve as an instant educational tool. I hope it works as well here.

 

[forestgnome]

I take it that this will be a state government regulation in NY, not federal.

This is not coming to the WMNF, is it?

 

[Orphic Seth]

Yes, this is all very interesting, and IMO, a little overdone I think... I've been actively backpacking in the New England for almost a decade now, and unfortunately have yet to see a bear (tracks and scat, yes) much less EVER have any of my food or campsite harrassed by bears, even indications of any bear looking at it. Nor am I worried about it, I'm more worried of bears becoming accustomed to humans than me getting hurt. Of course, I'm careful, and not flaunting my food, and attracting a problem to myself, so maybe that's it.

So what gives, does the eastern High Peaks have legitimate nuisance bears/problems, or is this some sort of knee-jerk reaction to some mother who saw a bear and went on a litigation frenzy? No flame, just haven't been able to get an answer from reading around this site as to the why's...

Those bedarned canisters are gonna really put a ***** in my packing system, not to mention the added weight. I'm gonna have to cut weight out of somewhere else now to make up for it. Looking at the dimensions, I don't even know how I'm gonna fit it in, to be honest. Hmm.

I'll be honest, if I got to the eastern H.P.'s, I'll use it. If its reg, I'm not gonna fight over it and spoil my outing. But I'm not gonna use it elsewhere, such as getting back to NH, unless I fall in love with it.

 

[Peakbagr]

If you spend an evening at Marcy Dam, Flowed Lands, Colden, Avalanche Camp, Orebed and a number of other overused camping areas, you'll see more than tracks.

 

[smh444]

I use a tupperware container for most of my trips. Granted, it's not bearproof, but it's easy to hang and it conceals odors fairly well.

I wish DEC would stop nagging backpackers and start bagging bears. These animals (I'm refering explicitly to the high peaks area) are hardly wild anymore. The bears are so predictable in the high peaks that I don't enjoy going there much - plus no campfires...sorry for the thread drift.

Do any of you get a chuckle at the stonefaced dead-serious DEC agents in the LOJ parking lot? I know, I know, there just doing their job. But I have to bite my lip to not burst out laughing.

 

[1ADAM12]

Get the carrying case for the Garcia. Makes it a whole lot easier to strap outside your pack, if so inclined. At least, so I'm told. I don't have one for mine and, thus carry it inside the pack.

I plan on purchasing one soon, just for the flexibility.

I paid the bit extra and bought the carry case. I am so glad I did and it attaches very nicely to the outside of my pack

 

[Artex]

My brother inlaw made a canister that survived a bear beating. Are there other homemade designs out there and is there a problem with the officals if one is used?

The best thing to do is call the rangers and ask, but I'd be surprised if they'd allow homemade canisters at the Dacks or any other area where they're required.

 

[lumberzac]

My brother inlaw made a canister that survived a bear beating. Are there other homemade designs out there and is there a problem with the officals if one is used?

I had a discussion with two rangers one night last year as they went by my campsite armed (a paintball gun and a shotgun loaded with rubber bullets) for bear hazing. According to them, the DEC is only allowing the same canisters that are approved out west. The DEC doesn’t have the resources to test homemade canisters.

 

[Reekee]

I had a discussion with two rangers one night last year as they went by my campsite armed (a paintball gun and a shotgun loaded with rubber bullets) for bear hazing. According to them, the DEC is only allowing the same canisters that are approved out west. The DEC doesn’t have the resources to test homemade canisters.

Thanks, that was very helpful. I do most of my hiking in winter when this is not an issue. Reekee

 

[TCD]

We've been over this ground on a few other threads. It's clear that in most areas, even in the Eastern High Peaks, food can be hung and there's no problem with Bears.

In heavily used (I stay away from the term "overused" because the term includes a value judgment) areas like Marcy Dam, better food storage is needed.

Since these areas are well defined, it makes sense for the DEC to install a version of the Bear Lockers that are used out west. (Prefereably a safer version that can be opened from inside, or is too small for a child to accidenatlly enter.)

When I asked a person I reached at the DEC (phone call to Albany office, I can't remember the name) about the potential for lockers, she opined that our Adirondack hiker population is too stupid to use the lockers, and that they would probably be used as garbage receptacles. Western hikers, being so much smarter, can have lockers at their camping areas.

So in answer to the question about whether there is a problem, or whether this is a knee jerk reaction, I'd say both. There is some problem, but most of what comes out of government is a knee jerk, or worse, self serving action by people who wouldn't know where they were if you set them down at Marcy Dam.

 

[kalless]

While not necessarily overused, add a few more campsites/lean-to's to your list of bear problem spots...

Uphill Brook...
Feldspar Brook...
Wolfjaws...

-Kalless

 

[Chip]

Nor am I worried about it,

This is where Yoda leans over and says, "You will be, you will be..."

The black bear (and turkey and coyote) populations have been growing geometrically in the NE in recent years due to several factors. Sightings and encounters have also increased proportionately. Your state DEP website carries the statistics.
It's not about getting hurt, it's about keeping the bears from becoming dependent on hikers.
Bear Canisters will become de facto regardless of regulations. The sooner the better.

 

[bctrainor]

close encounter with the carnivorous kind

Last year at the Uphill Lean-to a bear visited while I was asleep. Another guy was in there with us and he said he thought he heard it, but desided to keep quite since we were there too. Normally I wouldn't have believed him, but my friend's camel back was knocked off the outside nail (we decided that it would be a good idea to rinse tang out before going to sleep), and a plastic bag with toothpaste was ripped open. The other tip-off was the giant paw print right next to the lean-to, about 3 feet from where I was sleeping. It was more than a little disturbing, even the higher elevation lean-tos are not safe now....

 

[Papa Bear]

...
Since these areas are well defined, it makes sense for the DEC to install a version of the Bear Lockers that are used out west.
...
When I asked a person I reached at the DEC about the potential for lockers, she opined that our Adirondack hiker population is too stupid to use the lockers, and that they would probably be used as garbage receptacles.

Bear lockers (called bear boxes) are installed at all AT shelters in New Jersey and are used. Yes occasionally garbage is left in them (which is actually better than leaving the garbage in the Lean-to).

Can ADK hikers be dumber than AT hikers? I doubt it.

Pb

 

[jbreen]

smh444 posted...
Do any of you get a chuckle at the stonefaced dead-serious DEC agents in the LOJ parking lot? I know, I know, there just doing their job. But I have to bite my lip to not burst out laughing.

I would agree until I saw a group of four boys pass the shredded tent in the Loj parking lot and sign in for an overnight to the dam with what had to be 40 lb packs on each and four plastic grocery bags of popcord and nacho chips.
The Ranger politely asked their plans and if they knew how to hang their food. After a short back and forth discussion with them asking "really?", "what's a bear bag?" and "that high?" I walked away understanding the difficulties they face.

Jim

 

[Barbarossa]

Bear lockers (called bear boxes) are installed at all AT shelters in New Jersey and are used. Yes occasionally garbage is left in them (which is actually better than leaving the garbage in the Lean-to).

Can ADK hikers be dumber than AT hikers? I doubt it.

Pb

Are they the same as the bear box at 13 Falls Shelter in WMNF?

 

[Peaks]

Bears

Well, as my first post here, let me say this about that. I have done the AT, done the 4000's of New Hampshire, and done the 46'ers.

First, I think that the bears in the Adirondacks are smarter than the bears in both New Hampshire and along the AT. I have seen bears in the Dacks get food off bear lines that the bears in New Hampshire, Smokies, Shenandoah, New Jersey, and Georgia never could. So, it isn't that the backpackers are more careless in the Dacks. It's just that the bears are smarter.

Second, Bear boxes are probably a good alternate. The bear boxes in New Jersey are like the ones in the Whites at places like 13 falls. But apparently NY DEC doesn't want to bring them in. So, something needs to be done. DEC wants to try requiring canisters, so be it.

 

[sli74]

So, it isn't that the backpackers are more careless in the Dacks. It's just that the bears are smarter.

Maybe the bears get smarter as people get more careless? Don't know if there would be any scientific reason for smarter bears in one region over another

sli74

 

[tonycc]

Maybe the bears get smarter as people get more careless? Don't know if there would be any scientific reason for smarter bears in one region over another.

I doubt the bears are any smarter, just more edumacated. I don't have enough time in the White's (which I hope to correct sometime) to make a good comparison, but I can't believe any of the sites are as crowded as some of the bad bear places (Marcy Dam, Lake Colden) in the Daks. So, I would not say people are any more or less careless, just a lot more people displaying normal carelessness could 'splain the difference.

I just bought the Bearvault at the EMS sale. Fortunately, it fits well in my new Golite pack, despite weighing over twice as much as the pack and consuming over 10% of my total pack weight budget. I am looking forward to not having to ever hang a bear bag again, even though I am usually very proud of how well my bags are hung.

Tony

 

[Tramper Al]

So, it isn't that the backpackers are more careless in the Dacks. It's just that the bears are smarter.

Oh, man, you can't be serious, can you? Unless by 'smarter' you mean more habituated to careless campers. The Whites get plenty enough visitors to allow careless camping to teach the bears dangerous lessons, and this is surely going on.

It's sort of like saying that New England winter hikers are smarter than ADK winter hikers, because we don't need to be told to put on snowshoes. And I would never say that.