Bear containers are coming to ADKs

[Holdstrong]

Yeah, I'll have to try one of the pouches before I write them off completely. Tho I normally do not lash things to the outside of my pack.

I got a chuckle out of the "population wasnt educated enough" response to bear lockers. Ok, so then educate people. In the case of bear lockers it isn't that hard to do. Just put a simple sign up letting people know where they are, why they are there and what not to put in them. The ADK's are so sign phobic sometimes. If it wasnt for a late nite visit from a ranger during my last trip to Marcy Damn a few years back I would have never known about the bear cables there - even tho my food was hung well, I wanted to use the cables once I knew about them. Why not put up a few signs and save this guy the hassle of checking every camp site or lean-to (not too mention inform the people he doesnt happen to catch)?

Especially since this is that big of an issue.

 

[1ADAM12]

I totally agree about the educating of people....its not that hard...lol

 

[NYBRAD]

Don't stop rodents......

I own the bear vault. Like said, the bumps allow it to be strapped outside the pack. It also keeps fragile items safe, and makes for a great stool.
I was slow to conform, but the advantages far out way the disadvantages.

They may stop bears, but I saw a Garcia that some sort of rodent chewed a hole into.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

They really have to come up with a smaller cannister before I will consider carrying one. ......
....
How 'bout a half size can?

Ain't gonna happen.
One of the things that makes a bear canister work is its size. It is too big for a bear to get his jaws around it. A b ears jaws could easily crush those things if they could get them around it.

Other features are no places to get claws in to rip it apart. It isn'T simply the fact that it is some kind of canister. Much of its design has function behind it.

 

[Peakbagr]

The bear lockers are not the answer in the backcountry.
They will become trash cans. Folks will leave their leftovers in them and "forget" to visit the locker on their way out of the woods, making them unusable for those that follow.

I've said it before, its not a bear problem its a people problem and we all have to pay because of those who can't or won't learn to hang properly. Thats probably why it bugs some people.

 

[stoopid]

I've been using the bear vault all summer, including this past weekend camping at Lake Colden (another hot-spot). Others in the area lost their dinner and/or food.

I strap it to the outside of my pack, putting my tent, stuff sack of clothes, and sleeping pad inside.

 

[jbrown]

I fully 110% agree with Peakbagr. Consider this dead horse thouroughly beaten...

 

[NYBRAD]

I wonder how long it will be before a pack company comes out with a pack that has some sort of pocket or sleeve that the canister fits into.
Or even a canister that can be split into to halves like those plastic easter eggs. That way, you could adjust it's size and it would pack better.
How about a pack that has 2 pockets on each side for each part of the can , when you get to camp they screw together to form the normal looking can..
There is a company making a Titanium can. It's also around 200 bucks.

 

[spaddock]

Do you happen to know the company that makes the titanium canisters?

I did a google search and only found one reference of a canister made by a couple of Boeing engineers whos company never took off.


S.

 

[lumberzac]

I carried a canister for the first time last weekend. While it would fit inside my Golite Race pack I wouldn't be able to fit much else in my pack. There is no way I'm stuffing my cloths and sleeping bag in with my food. I ended up putting it in a sack and strapping it to the daisy chain on the pack. While this worked, it liked to flop around a lot and got in the way when going under downed trees across the trail. I guess I'm going to have to not only buy a canister, but also a new larger pack that it will fit inside of.

 

[Mike D.]

The expensive lightweight model is called a bearikade , not sure of spelling, could be barikade. Its made of some lightweight alloy and composite material.

 

[ADKMan]

The Bearikade website is www.wild-ideas.net . They have two versions, the Weekender at 1.9 pounds and the Expedition at "just over 2 pounds". They are pretty pricey though. $195 for the Weekender and $245 for the Expedition.

Wild-Ideas.net

 

[lumberzac]

The Bearikade website is www.wild-ideas.net . They have two versions, the Weekender at 1.9 pounds and the Expedition at "just over 2 pounds". They are pretty pricey though. $195 for the Weekender and $245 for the Expedition.

Wild-Ideas.net

They also have one that is smaller than the weekender that isn't on the website. You have to contact the company directly to get one.

 

[Grumpy]

The bear lockers are not the answer in the backcountry.
They will become trash cans. Folks will leave their leftovers in them and "forget" to visit the locker on their way out of the woods, making them unusable for those that follow.

Peakbagr, I think you are unduly pessimistic about the nature of people. I shudder to think what might have happened had an attitude like this prevailed when the great "if you carry it in, carry it out" campaign started in the 1960s. Talk about an uphill battle! Yeah, people still leave litter behind but things are a lot better now than they were, especially considering the vastly increased volume of hiker traffic.

Of course I know it's important to be realistic. But I think we should be careful that our reality checks become challenges to our problem solving capacity rather than barriers to progress.

Anyway, I'm not an advocate of lockers at the more remote places like Flowed Lands and Lake Colden, but they might be useful at places like Marcy Dam, where there can be more supervision.

By contrast, the canister is a nice, self-contained, convenient and evidently very effective approach, so I advocate that one.

I also wonder, at times, if the "no fires" rules should be revisited, to allow for disposal of food scraps and residues, and packaging by burning. The trash fire was a great adjunct to keeping our camps cleaned up and bear (and raccoon) free back in the dark ages. (And yes, we did sift through the ashes to recover aluminum scraps, etc., that were sanitized but not consumed in the fire.)

I've said it before, its not a bear problem its a people problem and we all have to pay because of those who can't or won't learn to hang properly. Thats probably why it bugs some people.

Old spiel. No sale.

The problem is both a bear problem and a people problem. And let's not forget that.

The bear's nature drives it to be an opportunistic feeder that will gravitate to where vittles are available in some abundance. I don't think it's much of a coincidence that bears were all but absent from and not much of a problem at all in the High Peaks "backcountry,"even at places like Lake Colden before town dumps were closed throughout the region. And, evidently (from what I read and hear), the High Peaks bears are pretty smart and enterprising -- smart and enterprising enough to have learned how to defeat most or all bear bag hanging systems that have been used in their raiding area.

The people component is driven at least as much by the vastly increased number of people who venture out into the boonies these days, as compared to decades ago, as it is by the laziness and ineptitude of the venturers.

I don't like to see more and more regulation burdening the activity of hiking in the Adirondack High Peaks (or anywhere else). But I think the bear canister rule is one that's time has come. So let's just get behind it and look forward to diminished bear problems (and "people problems," if you insist) in the High Peaks during years ahead.

G.

 

[WalksWithBlackflies]

Originally posted by Holdstrong
I don't even mind the weight, its the ridiculous bulk

That's exactly my problem with them. Since I live about 3.5 hours from the Adks, I often drive to the mountains the evening before a hike. I cram a sleeping bag and bivy sack and some cold food into my daypack, find a bivy spot or lean-to, and I'm set to go the next day. Many of these hikes are loops or involve bushwhacking. I bought my bivy sack exactly for this purpose.

I obviously can't fit a bear canister in my daypack along with the other necessities (and I'm not stuffing a bag in a canister with food). So now I either need to bring my backpack, or attach a daypack-sized canister to my daypack. That should make for some interesting travel on herpaths or bushwhacks.

Instead of purchasing/renting a canister and lugging it around with me, I'll probably just end up bivying in the middle of nowhere like the outlaw I'll become. Doesn't matter that I've never lost a bag to bears.

I'm also wondering if the DEC has thought through another problem with the canisters.... they'll work. Now you're gonna have a large population of 300-600 lb animals accoustomed to people that won't have enough of the food that they've grown dependent on. On whom do you think they'll take their frustration out when the hunger pains begin?

 

[Tuco]

I used a canister on the recent 4 day trip to the Whites with Jay, although it wasn't necessary. Carried it in my pack since Jay was carrying the tent. Does crowd the pack, but I added things like gas, stove, spoon, etc. I kind of like the organization it brings to food and food prep items. For very short trips I would keep additional things in it- you could put them in baggies if concerned about smell. If you have food items that can't be shoved in lest they be crushed, could be a problem, depending on length of trip.

Its also useful as a seat when closed if desired.

If carrying a tent, I think strapping it to the pack would have been necessary.

Overall, I like the idea, and if the regulations are in, what I think doesn't matter anyway

 

[Mark]

I'm also wondering if the DEC has thought through another problem with the canisters.... they'll work. Now you're gonna have a large population of 300-600 lb animals accoustomed to people that won't have enough of the food that they've grown dependent on. On whom do you think they'll take their frustration out when the hunger pains begin?

I'm not a bear expert, but I don't think bears are spiteful creatures who will retaliate if bear canisters become mandatory. Unless the bears get 100% of their food from camp raids, they already know how to forage for food. (They raid camps because it’s an easy meal.) If the food source in camps dries up due to canister use, I imagine the bears will revert to their natural feeding behavior.

I’m sure there are periods now where the campers around Marcy Dam and Lake Colden are extensively using canisters and/or hanging proper bear bags and the bears come away empty handed.

The expected reaction of the bears is also something the DEC can predict by looking at other areas of the country that have implemented bear canister requirements.

 

[WalksWithBlackflies]

Animal populations will generally grow/decline in direct proportion to the amount of available food (think about lemmings as an extreme example). Since campers have been feeding the bears for many years, there are too many bears for the amount of "natural" food in the area. Take the food away, and you're gonna have some starving bears. Not saying that the bears will be acting with malice, but they equate people with food, and will come looking to them for "handouts"... and they'll get aggressive when they don't receive any.

I guess we'll find out next summer/fall.

 

[Bushwacked]

Personally, I like the idea of food lockers that are bear proof at the high-traveled areas (maybe all designated areas).

I think 1) you're more likely to have people use those versus expecting 100s of hikers to all have cannisters in their groups 2) they are actually bear proof and 3) A-holes who leave garbage in them are the sam a-holes that pull other stupid stunts (like leaving their garbage at sites, etc).

Another alternative is the use of food poles (Canadian Rockies near Banff use these). along the lines of the Marcy cables, but up, not out. More useful at some backcountry sites, aesthetics notwithstanding.

 

[WalksWithBlackflies]

Ahhhh... that explains why more bears break into camps, etc. during years of drought. Looking for Visa receipts.