Best rechargeable batteries in winter.

[Jasonst]

OK, I see them at REI for 6$ for 2 batts. That's nutso

 

[DougPaul]

OK, I see them at REI for 6$ for 2 batts. That's nutso

AAA batts have 1/3 the energy of AA batts yet cost about the same...

I frequently use NiMH rechargable batts in my AAA headlamps and carry NiMH or lithium spares. All one needs for a day or weekend hike and the weight penalty is negligible.

Doug

 

[shadowcat]

BEST BATTERIES FOR WINTER - Distributor response

Here's the reply I rec'd from Thomas Dist as mentioned in my previous post:

Bj:

Lithium batteries work best in cold wheather. But most nIMh will also.The trick is have the higher milliamp batteries like the Energizer 2500mAh AA batteries.Have them fully charged and yes if you can keep them next to your body in Extremely cold weather you will probably get more shots or run time before the batteries discharge.
PS thanks for shopping with us and for recommending us to other people.

hope this helps

 

[SAR-EMT40]

Personally I would forget Lithium (except as a backup). They are needlessly expensive. I haven't bought a alkaline battery in years. No lie. I run everything I use, headlamp, radios, GPS, etc, everything on NiMH 12 months out of the year, including camping. I also make sure that all my camping stuff runs on AA batteries. That way I always can swap batteries from one unit to the other and I always have spares to call upon also. Yes, I also carry 4 spares and personally I don't carry or buy Lithiums because of the expense except for the units that use Lion batteries and I back those up with NiMH also. All my home stuff also uses NiMH exclusively though I do have some stuff that uses AAA's. Yes the AAA's are NiMH also.

OK, I do carry one lithium device that isn't rechargable. I only have one flashlight that uses lithium and that is a Surefire. I carry that always and the batteries are special 123 type that I get in small bulk amounts for about $1 a battery. It is a special light though for special circumstance and many times indespensable.


Just my $.02,
Keith

 

[David Metsky]

The rechargeables are ok (NIMH) but if you don't want to change your batteries often, use the lithiums.

Except it's not really a problem. I used my NiMH batteries for the past 4 winters and had no trouble. I would usually change batteries once during a dayhike.

-dave-

 

[DougPaul]

Personally I would forget Lithium (except as a backup). They are needlessly expensive. I haven't bought a alkaline battery in years. No lie. I run everything I use, headlamp, radios, GPS, etc, everything on NiMH 12 months out of the year, including camping. I also make sure that all my camping stuff runs on AA batteries. That way I always can swap batteries from one unit to the other and I always have spares to call upon also. Yes, I also carry 4 spares and personally I don't carry or buy Lithiums because of the expense except for the units that use Lion batteries and I back those up with NiMH also. All my home stuff also uses NiMH exclusively though I do have some stuff that uses AAA's. Yes the AAA's are NiMH also.

OK, I do carry one lithium device that isn't rechargable. I only have one flashlight that uses lithium and that is a Surefire. I carry that always and the batteries are special 123 type that I get in small bulk amounts for about $1 a battery. It is a special light though for special circumstance and many times indespensable.


Just my $.02,
Keith

Like you, I use NiMH AA and AAA cells extensively at home and on the trail. However, they have several weaknesses. One is a short shelf/low current drain life (~several months). So they are poor choices for applications such as clocks, watches, fire detectors, and emergency devices (flashlights, radios, etc). One can address these applications by frequent recharging of NiMHes, but lithiums or alkalines work very well with little maintenence.

Another weakness is extreme cold--lithiums degrade more slowly than do NiMHes. Probably not a make-or-break issue at the temps that we usually hike at. But at -40? (Cold does, however, increase the shelf-life of NiMHes.)

Lithiums are lighter. The difference isn't generally a problem (except to an ultra-lighter) for a weekend or so, but on a long trip it might add up. They also make sense for something like a GPS that stays turned off except in a (hopefully rare) emergency.


And you are likely to carry another Lithium battery powered device--an electronic watch.

Doug

 

[adkleaddog]

Excellent post! A lot of q's I had were answered.

What we need now is a "portable" charger that recharges while you hike, when on the trail.....

 

[spaddock]

Personally, I always carry lithiums in the headlamps and have a spare set of lithiums as backup. Even though they are more expensive than rechargeables, I feel the reliability and cold weather performance is worth whatever the cost differential.
PB

Anybody know where I can buy the (Engergizer) AAA lithiums? The only place I've seen them is through backpackerlight.com and I really don't want to put in an order just for batteries (shipping/cross-border duty, etc.). I see the AA lithiums all over town but haven't been able to track down the AAA's.

Thanks,
Shayne

 

[Jasonst]

Except it's not really a problem. I used my NiMH batteries for the past 4 winters and had no trouble. I would usually change batteries once during a dayhike.

-dave-

Yeah, I wasn't so much referring to a weekend hike. They should be fine for that. I was thinking of my dig camera, and it seems that they don't last that long. Perhaps it's time to get new ones. I should have been more clear.

 

[bill bowden]

batteries for the winter outdoors

There's been a good bit of comment on various batteries for cold weather environments. Here's a few additional word from somebody who has worked in the battery industry for many years:

Cold weather reduces the ability of batteries to supply high currents. cameras are a great example of a device that requires very high current. Lithium batteries outperform both alkaline and NiMH rechargeables in cold weather. This applies to both primary and secondary lithium batteries. Lithium batteries are quite expensive to manufacture and are sold in smaller numbers. Both these items contribute to the higher price you have to pay for them.

Digital cameras really drain batteries heavily compared to other cameras. the flash and the LCD display are the main villains you can control to reduce the drain. Lithium rechargeables are marginally worse than lithium primaries inthe cold but the devices they power usually don't overlap.

 

[SAR-EMT40]

DougPaul, you are correct, my watch battery is also lithium wise guy All your points are well taken but I am one of those people that has enough AA's and they are used enough that I don't have to worry about them sitting on the shelf long. I rotate my stock but the stock is always in use.

I am talking about a weekend in length and even in the coldest weather I have had no problem camping. I am anal enough though that I will keep my batteries or some of my devices on my inner clothing or my sleeping bag. Not just for the batteries, but even the devices that have LCD screens that could freeze at -40 temps. Even at higher temps than that they will have really sluggish screens.

There are designs for rechargers for camping that use a flexable 5 watt solar panel and charging circuitry. My favorite panel is called unisolar flexable solar panel. Unisolar panel It is something that I plan on investing in someday.

Keith

 

[DougPaul]

Anybody know where I can buy the (Engergizer) AAA lithiums? The only place I've seen them is through backpackerlight.com and I really don't want to put in an order just for batteries (shipping/cross-border duty, etc.). I see the AA lithiums all over town but haven't been able to track down the AAA's.

Thanks,
Shayne

REI carries both AA and AAA lithiums. I think I saw an ad for same in a Walgreen flyer.

Doug

 

[spider solo]

Adkleaddog..I believe such a thing has already been invented and may be in use by some thru hikers among others...

 

[DougPaul]

Excellent post! A lot of q's I had were answered.

What we need now is a "portable" charger that recharges while you hike, when on the trail.....

A good source for info on batteries is
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/index.htm

There are solar panel based chargers, but they don't seem to be very practical for a hiker. Size, weight, you want to be hiking when the light is best, etc. Might be useful in a fixed basecamp where you can leave them set up during the day. Not cheap.

Doug

 

[bobscout]

I've had great luck with the Lithium Ion rechargeables. I always leave the screen off though. I'd rather compose through the viewfinder anyways. I have a Canon S410 (small, 4 MP) and can get at least 450 pictures out of a battery in spring/summer/fall (That was over 10 days in Alaska last summer). I just keep it a pocket and it still works great in the winter. Never tried to take 450 pictures on a day hike so I'm not sure how long it lasts. If you shop around, extra rechargeable packs can be had for a decent price. Canon wanted $60 each, I found some for $6.50 each with shipping. So I just charge a couple up before I go out and always carry a spare.

bob

 

[PeterM]

Neil's GPS on NiMH

Neil-

You say your GPS shows low battery on freshly charged NiMH batteries? I have the Magellan SporTrak Pro, I generally use Sony 2100mah with very good results. What GPS & batteries are you using?

Remember (I think) this unit will likely do better with the 3volts out of a new pair of alkalines, but NiMH starting at 2.4 have more "guts". I can plan on getting 8-12 hrs reliably without using the backlighting.

I have Lenmar 2300mah but tend to find that "branded" lower rated tend to perform better, thus in the GPS and digital camera I'll continue using the Sonys, I like the prior advice to use non-rechargable Lithium cells for the most demanding applications - longest storage, lighter weight & longest life, despite their high cost.

 

[David Metsky]

Yeah, I wasn't so much referring to a weekend hike. They should be fine for that. I was thinking of my dig camera, and it seems that they don't last that long. Perhaps it's time to get new ones. I should have been more clear.

I'm talking about my digital camera. Generally, when I get ready for a trip I recharge the batteries the night before so I always go out with two fresh sets. I've used the same two sets for 4 years, much better IMO than tossing all those non-rechargable lithium batteries.

While some cameras use more juice than others, a fresh set of 2100s should last you quite some time. I shoot 100's of shots on every dayhike, summer or winter, and it's worked well for me.

-dave-

 

[DougPaul]

Neil-

You say your GPS shows low battery on freshly charged NiMH batteries? I have the Magellan SporTrak Pro, I generally use Sony 2100mah with very good results. What GPS & batteries are you using?

Known issue. Mis-set meter. See posts #16 and #17, this thread.

Remember (I think) this unit will likely do better with the 3volts out of a new pair of alkalines, but NiMH starting at 2.4 have more "guts".

Depends on the design of the GPS. Some contain a regulator circuit which can compensate for decreasing voltage up to a drop-out point.

I have Lenmar 2300mah but tend to find that "branded" lower rated tend to perform better, thus in the GPS and digital camera I'll continue using the Sonys,

Some brands/models of rechargables appear to have had their capacities set by their PR departments rather than their engineering departments. (One can also use a non-standard definition (the mah number will be higher at lower discharge currents) to "optimize" the number.)

There is a good (but a little old: dated 2002) review of NiMH rechargable AA cells at
http://www.imaging-resource.com/ACCS/BATTS/BATTS.HTM

Doug

 

[erd]

Target also carries both the lithium AAA and AA at a competetive price (still much more than alkaline). As I'm sure has been mentioned, neither lithium AAA and AA are rechargeable. However, no other battery system, rechargeable or not, comes close in terms of handling the cold.

I have just been preparing the early stages of a review of a new Princeton Tec model for BackpackGearTest.org, and as part of this I charted light output against time at various temperature ranges. The performance decline, even at 40 degrees, with alkaline AAA batteries was startling.

I believe Nickel-Cadmium and all the other chemistries out there are similarly flawed. I'm also not aware of any lithium ion rechargeable AA and AAA batteries. Why, I don't know.

Ted.

 

[DougPaul]

Target also carries both the lithium AAA and AA at a competetive price (still much more than alkaline). As I'm sure has been mentioned, neither lithium AAA and AA are rechargeable. However, no other battery system, rechargeable or not, comes close in terms of handling the cold.

I have just been preparing the early stages of a review of a new Princeton Tec model for BackpackGearTest.org, and as part of this I charted light output against time at various temperature ranges. The performance decline, even at 40 degrees, with alkaline AAA batteries was startling.

I believe Nickel-Cadmium and all the other chemistries out there are similarly flawed. I'm also not aware of any lithium ion rechargeable AA and AAA batteries. Why, I don't know.

Ted.

The the ranking for low temp performance from worst to best is:
* Carbon-zinc (dry cell)
* Alkaline
* NiMh/Lithium ion (rechargable)
* NiCad
* Lithium (non-rechargable)
(Table in part from http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-3.htm)

Not sure I would call the chemistry of any of the batteries flawed--they just have characteristics which may be good or bad for a particular application.

Lithium ion batteries put out 3.6 volts per cell. These batteries are _very_ fragile, can be destroyed by over discharge and can explode if over charged. If they were available in standard sizes, they would be easily confused with other battery types and there would be a steady stream of destroyed gear and exploding batteries.

Doug