Boston Globe article on Mt Washington hiking

[skiguy]

all I want to know is with all the folks getting on each other about this issue - when and where is the make up sex?

When one stops learning one stops living

 

[dr_wu002]

I thought that we should "at the first sign of bad weather, abandon our climb without shame for the worse is yet to come." (old AMC guide book-page 1)
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.
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I think it's a really sad day in mountaineering when we cannot teach our children what "hiking safe" means.
Perhaps one of these young people will attempt Everest. I would hope that when the time comes he understands that pressing on to the summit at all cost is not a great idea. There will always be another day to bag your peak.

Hiking Mt. Washington in the summer is not really "mountaineering."

Also, I doubt there would ever have been one single attempt on Everest had people taken this advise and turned away running and screaming for safety the first time they saw a storm cloud. I get the feeling this guy taught the kids not to exercise over-analyzing cowardice.

I'm sorry, Mt. Washington is a helluva lot safer than walking the streets of Boston or Hartford or Manhattan. You exercise caution and restraint when walking the city as much as you do walking up Washington. But the attitude pervading this entire thread is both speculative and cowardly. Why don't we all just shut ourselves in and read the trip reports of the "professionals" than ever risk the dangers of going outdoors.

-Dr. Wu

 

[DougPaul]

I thought that we should "at the first sign of bad weather, abandon our climb without shame for the worse is yet to come." (old AMC guide book-page 1)
Are we not told to have an escape route planned for this very reason when we are above treeline?

Theory is easy, practice is hard.

Is the cog the new "escape route"?

No, it is an old escape route. It has been in operation since 1869 and has most likely been carrying tired hikers down the whole time. The Carriage Road is another old escape route, completed in 1861.

Doug

 

[Gris]

Huh?

Giggy nailed it. It's about the kids. Wu, your post only makes sense in the context of adults who hopefully are equipped to weigh the risks for themselves. And, assuming summer storms atop Mt. W are not deadly is risky business. History has shown us that many have perished from hypothermia up there in the summer - via the simple equation of get lost, hunker down and die. Thankfully, this hike had a happier ending.

 

[dr_wu002]

Giggy nailed it. It's about the kids. Wu, your post only makes sense in the context of adults who hopefully are equipped to weigh the risks for themselves. And, assuming summer storms atop Mt. W are not deadly is risky business. History has shown us that many have perished from hypothermia up there in the summer - via the simple equation of get lost, hunker down and die. Thankfully, this hike had a happier ending.

You know, someday I'm going to go up in a snowstorm, wearing a cotton dress while smoking a cigar and with a parrot on my shoulder and nothing but an anvil and a cell phone in my pack. I'll be so famous, you guy's will talk about me forever!

-Dr. Wu

 

[Grandaddy]

I think that it would be cool to hike up and ride the Cog down only if you paid your fare with pennies. If they didn't accept your fare....Whooaa!!!

 

[Fisher Cat]

dr wu- I have a reproduction of a 18th century haversack if you want to put your cell in it. One of these days its all I'll take up Mt W. And my gourd canteen.

 

[marty]

I started this thread strongly suspecting it would generate a lot of discussion and debate, but had no idea it would generate quite this much . I think it has been a VERY interesting case study, especially because it involved children, because it involved summer (not winter) treeline travel in adverse conditions, because the information was incomplete or edited and because of the messages this published article might send to others. It is that last one that concerns me the most.

Is the article downplaying the risks of hiking Mt. Washington? I think the answer is yes.

Is the article encouraging young children to take the easy way out of difficult situations, such as using the Cog Railway? Again, I think the answer is yes.

These are messages that I think are potentially dangerous.

Marty

 

[Kevin Rooney]

I started this thread strongly suspecting it would generate a lot of discussiion and debate, but had no idea it would generate quite this much .

I agree - I'm surprised as well. I made an assumption (apparently faulty) that the old maxim "Never climb into deteriorating weather" was widely accepted, but apparently it's not.

There was another thread - perhaps 2 years ago - which involved discussion of what responsibility, if any, do we have for the safety of others in our hiking group. That was a real eye-opener for me as well.

Positions seems to have solidified - I doubt anyone while sway others at this point.

If there are any 'losers' in this it's the Globe. Were they bought by Rupert Murdock when I wasn't looking? Too bad the Globe choose to edit Steve Jermanok's article the way they did. Based upon a couple of emails he sent me, I suspect if it had run they way he wrote it then we'd be having an entirely different discussion.

 

[SherpaKroto]

If it were all adults, and all of them were in a position to make a judgment for themselves (i.e. none were injured, or otherwise incapacitated), then each would be qulified to make their own decisions. Fine with me. Here, in a group of 6, 3 were not in a position to make a decision on their own, and relied on others to make the decision for them. If I were faced with this same situation, I would hopefully turn around. Any parent or caregiver would do the same IMHO, and I am definitely NOT the brightest bulb in this box!

I also don't buy that they had purchased the tickets in advance. Too darn convenient. I just don't buy it.

 

[skiguy]

I agree - I'm surprised as well. I made an assumption (apparently faulty) that the old maxim "Never climb into deteriorating weather" was widely accepted, but apparently it's not.

There was another thread - perhaps 2 years ago - which involved discussion of what responsibility, if any, do we have for the safety of others in our hiking group. That was a real eye-opener for me as well.

Positions seems to have solidified - I doubt anyone while sway others at this point.

If there are any 'losers' in this it's the Globe. Were they bought by Rupert Murdock when I wasn't looking? Too bad the Globe choose to edit Steve Jermanok's article the way they did. Based upon a couple of emails he sent me, I suspect if it had run they way he wrote it then we'd be having an entirely different discussion.

I agree here Kevin on all points; especially on an excellent summation. What is important in this thread to me is that we are all hikers/mountaineers/climbers and with that comes Risk; which many have alluded to. The disagreement of tone seems to be at how we arrive at the awarness of that risk and deal with it. IMO to each his own in calculating that Risk and potentially teaching the inherent Risk of the Hobby/Lifestyle/Obession that we all so passionately seek. In this day and Life who is anyone to tell the other what to do when it comes to the addiction that we all share here? Especially when it comes to a sindicated publication that is closer to an Ocean than a Mountain.

 

[Breeze]

In case anyone is looking for the MWO SUMMIT weather data for a particular day or days in June 2007, it is available.

http://public.fotki.com/MWO/saved/2007/conditions/conditions-062007/

6/23/07 is about page 28/29. 6/30 is the last 2 pages of the file.


Breeze

 

[Tim Seaver]

Given the author's relative inexperience on Mt. Washington, it may have been wiser for his group to turn around. I certainly wouldn't have a problem with a more experienced adult who knows MW better taking properly equipped kids to the summit and back in less-than ideal conditions. Of course, you need to know when to say when, and for us to make that call from our keyboards based on a rather, um, "inventive" story about hiking MW is not very reasonable.

The Scottish LIVE to climb in "full conditions", and would no doubt bristle at the AMC's super-conservative "turn around at the first raindrop" advice. I know I do.

 

[Breeze]

If it were all adults, and all of them were in a position to make a judgment for themselves (i.e. none were injured, or otherwise incapacitated), then each would be qulified to make their own decisions. Fine with me. Here, in a group of 6, 3 were not in a position to make a decision on their own, and relied on others to make the decision for them. If I were faced with this same situation, I would hopefully turn around. Any parent or caregiver would do the same IMHO, and I am definitely NOT the brightest bulb in this box!

I also don't buy that they had purchased the tickets in advance. Too darn convenient. I just don't buy it.

?

too darn convenient......

in that The Boston Globe, White Mountains Attractions Association, Mt Washington Cog Railway, and Mt Washington Resort Hotel might have all contributed to ( or comped?) some expenses for this group? In exchange for gentle advertising mention?

??????


yee ha I've NEVER EVER heard of that happening. ( Huge Grin).



I'll have to back track records from the Auto Road from late June. WE keep track of our shutdowns. Not every day comes to mind, but late June was not friendly. I'll have a look at the last 2 weeks of June.

Breeze

 

[Kevin Judy and Emma]

From MWO website

This is stuff everyone here already knows, but I'll throw it in anyway. Here's a link to information about visiting MW on the Observatory's website:

http://www.mountwashington.org/about/visitor/surviving.php

A quote from it:

Fatalities on Mount Washington occur for various reasons- overexposure to the cold, wet, and wind, falls down steep slopes, avalanches... perhaps few accidents on the mountain can truly be attributed to just one reason, one misstep. Previous decisions determine what gear is brought along, which trail is followed, what types of conditions are expected. It is imperative to understand and prepare for changing weather conditions, to take into account one's abilities and the abilities of party members, to heed warning signs and above all to never be ashamed to turn back. Disregard for any of these principles increase the likelihood of an unfortunate or even tragic incident. "Bagging" another summit is never worth the cost of a life.

I think this is an excellent thread because it is drawing so much attention to the inherent risk of climbing, not just MW, but in the Whites in general. Different people have different views on what risk is, and that is obvious from the thread.

Here is an example: The observatory has an annual fundraiser which involves hiking on MW. It is open to all levels of hikers, with different trails suggested for everyone from beginners to "experts". There were thunderstorms forecast for the afternoon. On the last leg of Tuckerman Ravine Trail I met someone from the Obs who was booking it down because the radar showed the storms within an hour of the summit and he wanted to get below treeline before they hit. The storms never hit. They were coming from the south and dispersed when they hit the mountains. There was very light rain and low winds. I saw dozens, some in the fundraiser, some not, heading for the summit as we were coming down. Many were in cotton t's, blue jeans and many were in sneakers. As far as I know, they all survived. Was it prudent for them to keep climbing? In my opinion, no. It would only " increase the likelihood of an unfortunate or even tragic incident."

I am going to email a link to this thread to Peter Crane at the Obs and Mike Pelchat at the State Park and if they respond I'll forward what they have to say.
KDT

 

[DougPaul]

Fatalities on Mount Washington occur for various reasons- overexposure to the cold, wet, and wind, falls down steep slopes, avalanches...

The summit facilities have long been an "attractive hazard". People (particularly inexperienced people) tend to head toward them in bad conditions because they think they offer safety or at least the illusion of safety. However, conditions often get much worse as one gets higher. People have gotten lost and died within a stone's throw of the summit because they couldn't find/reach it in bad conditions.

I think this is an excellent thread because it is drawing so much attention to the inherent risk of climbing, not just MW, but in the Whites in general. Different people have different views on what risk is, and that is obvious from the thread.

Many (particularly novice) hikers do not seem to realize that there is risk involved. Many climbers are likely to say "Yawn, so what else is new?".

Doug

 

[jmegillon149]

correspondance with Steve Jermanock

Mr. Jermanock was kind enough to write back. His major points were:

1. Took offense to my judgements on the article, as I did not know the whole story only what was written, and talked of how the paper heavily edited it.
2. Stated that they, children included, were far more experienced than the article let on.
3. The Pinkham volunteer made additional comments that downplayed the weather, due to them being very well equipped - those comments were edited out.
4. Taking the Cog down was their intention from the very start, they actually bought tickets before the hike. So in effect, taking the Cog was not the preffered method of bailing out, but rather what they set out to do all along.

Obviously the hike that took place, and the hikers who went on it were not well-represented in the article. Here's an edited down (due to length and redundancies in my earlier posts) version of what I wrote back:

I guess the major problem I had with the article was in the inspiration that it may lead to. My fear is that people who truly are inexperienced will see this article, and decide to hike Washington whatever the conditions are. By making it seem as if adverse conditions are not a big deal, it could lead others to make ill-advised choices. I am just imagining people not turning back because "those inexperienced kids from the paper could do it, so can we."

To make yourself appear less prepared, to make the weather seem worse, and most importantly to make hiking in bad weather seem like its less of a task than it is - shows irresponsibility if not on that hike, than most definately in the writing and/or editing of it.

The Cog aspect also seems irresponsible. The article clearly implies that they made the choice to take it as a safety measure, not a first choice.

I really feel that this article's portrait of Mount Washington's weather as an intense yet "conquerable by anyone" element could very well lead to tragedy in the future.

Either Mr. Jermandock or the paper made a very poor choice in the final product that made the paper. Honestly, if that story was a VFTT post, or an article in backpacker, I would not even have a huge problem with it, but it wasn't published in those places.

It was published in a paper with a largely urban readership, I feel that for any media, the audience is a key component when deciding how to present a story. By reaching, and arguably targeting an audience that primarily consists of people who are novice hikers at best, it opens up a bad can of worms in my opinion.

 

[Fisher Cat]

Since parents hiking with their children can be an issue of concern regarding their preperation, i had my mom pull out her hiking photo album. this I found interesting. I was 6.5 the first time my folks took me up Mt W, by the Crawford Path. It was June and the pictures show nothing but clouds/fog. I was wearing a Snoopy knit-hat, a windbreaker(with my Hot Wheels patches sewed on),gloves, pants etc. Obviously it was not a fair weather day. If anything my parents were prepared. In the background in one pic is the "red" pack. My mom carried this in addition to what my dad packed for us already. it was jammed with extra clothes, laces, food, hats,gloves,etc. It had a big red cross on it.I'm glad my parents took us, but mostly I'm glad they took it seriously. And yes, I was smiling. The next year was even better, i met Pushka the summit cat, and Marty Angstrom. I didn't wash my hands after I shook his until my mom made me.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

...The next year was even better, i met Pushka the summit cat, and Marty Angstrom. I didn't wash my hands after I shook his until my mom made me.

Wow, am I envious! We used to watch Channel 8 weather (not that it applied much to us in VT) just in the hopes of seeing Marty Angstrom. It was a double-treat if Fluffy walked past the camera.

 

[Grayjay]

For years I've been uncomfortably aware of a "state of grace" on Mount Washington, where inexperience and stupidity are forgiven by the elements. That goes on year round all the time.
It takes two or three mistakes stacked on each other to usually cause injury or death. In this case, no rain coats, not turning back, and then if they got lost and had to stay out a long time, that would be the clincher leading toward hypothermia. That didn't happen.
Someone inspired by this article could find themselves is a situation of exponential mistakes. Or, it could be someone who didn't read it.
Because accidents happen when you least expect them.