Buy the book, please!

[Mohamed Ellozy]

"What happened to Doug?"

"Doug? Ah, he grep'd when he should have awk'd".

See grep(1) and awk(1) in the FM

Tim

Tim,

You are clearly, like me, an oldtimer. He probably should have used perl See perl(1) in the above mentioned FM.

Of course, even perl is today a bit old fashioned. Lord knows how many "latest and greatest" scripting languages are out there competing in the marketplace of ideas.

Somehow we appear to have strayed from the original focus of this thread

 

[HAMTERO]

Oh, really?

B) I own the AMC WMG and about the only thing it is good for are the maps that come with it and the the mileage. The elevation data is virtually useless, since, as far as I can tell, they only give net vertical gained.

There is all kinds of useful stuff in there, history, cool views ect.

D) (1)Have you hiked 28+ miles in a day that included two climbs that were 1,700'-2,000' vert, both in 0.5-0.75 miles? (2) Have you spent the better part of two days bushwhacking through stuff so dense that it often limited travel to 0.25-0.3 miles per hour?

Where is the 28 miler with the two climbs? There are no regular hiking trails in the Whites with climbs that steep. For example the Great Gulf headwall is 1700' in 1.0 miles

 

[DougPaul]

Since Doug was (IIRC) a UNIX sysadmin he must have told them to RTFM. The polite expansion of that acronym is "Read The Friendly Manual.

I always heard it as Read the Fine Manual. And traditional Unix had good manuals (a bit like the WMG...).

I was also nice enough to tell them which section of the manual to read.

The alternative was wasting my time spoon feeding PhDs instead of doing my own work. No thanks...

Doug

 

[eddie]

...not all of the answers are in the book...

...and that's why the questions are sometimes asked. Especially when trying to group several peaks into one day hike, or best start and finish spots on thru-hikes, etc.

But I also agree, buy the book - and then READ it. And then ask the question if you cannot find the answer.

 

[DougPaul]

"Doug? Ah, he grep'd when he should have awk'd".

Harumph!!!

I know the difference between grep and awk--I use them daily.

I also know when and how to use perl.

If you don't know the difference, read grep(1), awk(1), and perl(1).
(Available on any reputable *NIX machine using the man command.) You will also find the tutorials on awk and perl very helpful too.


<humor on>
I thought personal attacks were forbidden...
<humor off>

Doug
mumble, mumble, mumble...

 

[marchowes]

Stop all this Unix scripting nonsense or I will have to give you all the TCL torture

 

[DougPaul]

Stop all this Unix scripting nonsense or I will have to give you all the TCL torture

I'll TK your TCL...


Either way, you should still buy and read the manual/guidebook before asking questions.

Doug

 

[TEO]

There is all kinds of useful stuff in [the AMC WMG], history, cool views ect. [sic]

Where is the 28 miler with the two climbs? There are no regular hiking trails in the Whites with climbs that steep. For example the Great Gulf headwall is 1700' in 1.0 miles

Okay, I'll admit, it can be entertaining to peruse through the WMG on occasion, especially to read their harrowing trail descriptions. But, when I want history, I pull out my worn copy of Forest and Crag; when I want really harrowing tales, I pull out Not Without Peril. The WMG's elevation gain data--pretty much pointless, IMnotsoHO.

As for the 28 miler, I'll give you one clue: it's on the other side of Lake Champlain from New Hampshire. If you buy the right guidebook and the right map, you should be able to figure it out. (Disclaimer: It may have been a 0.75 mile, 1.7k' climb and a 0.5 mile 1.5k' climb, I can't remember off the top of my head.)

 

[David Metsky]

Heck, ever watch a two-finger typist use ed to edit 3000 line C code on a terminal screen? Painful, trust me.

 

[Tom Rankin]

Heck, ever watch a two-finger typist use ed to edit 3000 line C code on a terminal screen? Painful, trust me.

The first editor I had, you had to explicitly list the source, as it did not display on the TELETYPE!

 

[TEO]

If you're looking up how long a route is, or what the elevation gain is - the guidebook is probably your best answer.

[WARNING: Thread drift and gripe alert]

Am I the only one who things that the notion of elevation gain, as presented in the WMG, is pretty stupid?

If you're on peak A and your destination is peak B, who cares that B is 200 feet higher than A. What matters is that you descend 500 feet to the col and then--now here is the part that matters--are faced with a 700 foot climb to the summit of B.

 

[smitty77]

Remember the good ol' days when there were no TR's, or trail conditions, or even the Weather Channel? You just packed up and went, and dealt with what Mother Nature handed out.

I sure do, and sometimes I miss 'em. The only TRs I could count on when hiking as a kid were often vague recollections from Max that could be 10 years old or more. Finding the trailhead for Mt. Liberty was quite interesting during the construction of the parkway.

I think I fall in line with the general consensus of "read the Guide first, ask questions later". I like online forums when I'm planning a family hike and need the abosulte straightforward dope, including blowdowns and beaver activity, so as to maximize family enjoyment. It's nice to know your bail-out trails are free and clear when you have a fussy toddler on your back.

 

[smitty77]

[WARNING: Thread drift and gripe alert]

Am I the only one who things that the notion of elevation gain, as presented in the WMG, is pretty stupid?

If you're on peak A and your destination is peak B, who cares that B is 200 feet higher than A. What matters is that you descend 500 feet to the col and then--now here is the part that matters--are faced with a 700 foot climb to the summit of B.

'Tis why I carry a map. I don't have guidebooks for most of the places I hike in central MA, but I always carry a map. Even the lousy ones have a crude topo line from which to judge the terrain.

 

[MichaelJ]

Am I the only one who things that the notion of elevation gain, as presented in the WMG, is pretty stupid?
If you're on peak A and your destination is peak B, who cares that B is 200 feet higher than A. What matters is that you descend 500 feet to the col and then--now here is the part that matters--are faced with a 700 foot climb to the summit of B.

Isn't this exactly what the WMG tells you? Not the difference between A and B, but the amount of ascent you will do when walking from A to B? Apologies if they've changed that in recent editions, but I'm pretty positive that mine (not with me right now) gives vertical gain on the hike, not simple summit elevation differences.

 

[albee]

Please DON'T read between the lines

We don't want to become the "cell phone" of beta information. Nobody should just tramp into the woods with the sum of their preparation being a VFTT post.

Thank you, MichaelJ - that is exactly what I was getting at. Couldn't have said it better myself!

For those of you that misinterpreted my original post, let me clarify: There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking route suggestions or getting info about current trail conditions here. I said nothing about that, and that is one of the reasons I am a member of this community. The cumulative knowledge of the people on here and their willingness to share it is awesome. I just don't think it is right to "ask questions first and consult the guidebook later" when it comes to basic distance and estimated time questions... information that most guidebooks can provide you. I'm just trying to ask people to buy a guidebook if they don't already have one, or have the common courtesy to only ask questions that you couldn't honestly figure out for yourself with some simple guidebook research.

If you want to ask if a Great Range traverse is comparable to a Presidential traverse, fine - that's a great question that dozens of people here could answer.

And TEO, you're right - this thread belongs in the General Backcountry forum. My bad.


MEAN PEOPLE SUCK

 

[DougPaul]

Isn't this exactly what the WMG tells you? Not the difference between A and B, but the amount of ascent you will do when walking from A to B? Apologies if they've changed that in recent editions, but I'm pretty positive that mine (not with me right now) gives vertical gain on the hike, not simple summit elevation differences.

This has always been my understanding: cumulative climb, not the difference between elevations.

In fact the number can be different for the same route traveled in opposite directions. The number would be the same, except for a plus sign in one direction and a minus sign in the other direction if it were just the difference in elevations.

Doug

 

[albee]

I agree with Michael and Doug... the guidebook gives cumulative gain on any given route, not net gain.

The maps in the AMC WMG say that Tripoli Road is not open in winter.

Um, last time I checked Tripoli Road WASN'T open in winter...

 

[dr_wu002]

This has always been my understanding: cumulative climb, not the difference between elevations.

In fact the number can be different for the same route traveled in opposite directions. The number would be the same, except for a plus sign in one direction and a minus sign in the other direction if it were just the difference in elevations.

Doug

Something nobody has pointed out is that the guide book is only good if you can read.

In 2003, the National Assessment of Adult Literacy (NAAL), conducted by the US Department of Education, found that fourteen percent of American adults scored at this “below basic” level in prose literacy in English.

If 14% of the people are "functionally illiterate" (or you chose a better term) then the guide book won't be too useful for them and a forum like this a better place to start.

-Dr. Wu

 

[SteveHiker]

[WARNING: Thread drift and gripe alert]

Am I the only one who things that the notion of elevation gain, as presented in the WMG, is pretty stupid?

If you're on peak A and your destination is peak B, who cares that B is 200 feet higher than A. What matters is that you descend 500 feet to the col and then--now here is the part that matters--are faced with a 700 foot climb to the summit of B.

got an example of where it does that?

I haven't read it cover to cover, but I've only ever experienced what Michael and Doug said about how it's done.

The WMG is laid out based on trails not on routes to peaks. So sometimes, you have to do a little math to get the total distance/elevation gain to a particular summit if it involves multiple trails.

 

[Paradox]

a forum like this a better place to start. -Dr. Wu

But this 14% can only look at the pictures