Climbers stranded on hood as we speak

[pudgy_groundhog]

Does somebody have a link to information on S&R costs and statistics? I'd be interested to see a breakdown of the $.

 

[JohnL]

Does somebody have a link to information on S&R costs and statistics? I'd be interested to see a breakdown of the $.

Costs

JohnL

 

[DougPaul]

Does somebody have a link to information on S&R costs and statistics? I'd be interested to see a breakdown of the $.

The American Alpine Club published an analysis of SAR costs. http://www.americanalpineclub.org/pdfs/MRreal.pdf.

Mountaineering SAR costs are a very small fraction of the total. In Oregon in 2003, climbing was 3.8%, just above mushroom picking at 3.3%.

Massive searches for lost hikers, kids, etc are far costlier.

In the US, most SAR personell are volunteer. The local officials are often already on the payroll and the military treats the SAR as training and does not bill anyone. Europe is quite different...

Doug

 

[Bobby]

The latest post from yahoo. It sounds as if the SAR is going into recovery mode. It ain't over 'til it's over.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061219/ap_on_re_us/missing_climbers

 

[medic108]

Interesting report - dislocated shoulder. Rather unfortunate since, in the absence of fracture, its a rather easy maneuver to reduce the dislocation even for a non-physician. The pain of a dislocated shoulder is pretty intense - no wonder he was unable to continue. Just some thoughts....

As for SAR discussion. Many SAR members are volunteers, I work and know many members personally. There are definetly costs - there always are from supplies, to time, equipment, aircraft and sometimes lives. The piece that the media misses at times is that although this is a tragedy and we all feel for the families and for the climbers, it was a ascent and trek of choosing. These were experienced mountaineers that knew that the risk of the adventure was the ultimate sacrifice. It doesnt make the loss easier for the family, but it is certainly different than an unpredictable circumstance like a tornado ripping through a neighborhood.

 

[una_dogger]

I don't know if anyone is interested but maybe we can have a candlelight VFTT vigil to send vibes for this rescue. I am amazed at the determination that is being shown. I feel like I want to do something. Imagine all of us lighting a candle at the same time and really focusing our energy on the mountain?

 

[Grumpy]

I don't want to drag this discussion OT, but the following caught my attention:

Interesting report - dislocated shoulder. Rather unfortunate since, in the absence of fracture, its a rather easy maneuver to reduce the dislocation even for a non-physician. The pain of a dislocated shoulder is pretty intense - no wonder he was unable to continue. Just some thoughts....

As one who suffered serial shoulder dislocations over a 20-year period I can attest that part of this is true, and part of it is not.

First, I don't recall experiencing intense pain with dislocations. Some pain, yes. But I would not call it intense. What I did experience was an intense sense of helplessness and fragility when the episodes occurred.

Second, I'll agree that reduction is not necessarily difficult. In my case, it often happened as spontaneously as did the dislocation.

BUT, the last dislocation I experienced occurred (26 years ago) when I rolled over in bed at about 5 o'clock one morning. It was a severe, full dislocation and the doctor -- who actually made a house call! -- was unable to reduce it, even after having dosed me with some powerful painkillers and muscle relaxants. What followed in short order was a trip to the hospital, general anethesia and a session in the operating room with an orthopaedic surgeon and team of goons who cranked the thing back into place while I was out cold. Eight weeks later the shoulder was surgically repaired, and hasn't caused trouble since.

My conclusion is that we ought be careful making general statements about injuries of this sort and their effects.

G.

 

[Rick]

As far as pain goes, we all vary with pain thresholds. My wife, who has also given birth and can do some comparitive analysis with that pain, has dislocated her shoulder several times and her pain is extremely intense. panicky, sweating, vomiting type pain that causes all her muscles to become rigid/cramped.
My thoughts and prayers are with these guys. This tragedy evokes of memories from May 1996 on Everest when Outside Online was covering it minute by minute....

 

[pudgy_groundhog]

Thanks JohnL and DougPaul.

 

[DougPaul]

Does somebody have a link to information on S&R costs and statistics? I'd be interested to see a breakdown of the $.

Some more info on the costs of this effort: http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/1166585109174210.xml&coll=7

The county conservatively estimates it has been spending about $5,000 a day for food, fuel, lodging, personnel and overtime costs during the nine full days of the operation.

(There is more info on funds in the article.)

Also info on the current status (search scaled back, bad weather coming in.)

Doug

 

[SherpaKroto]

When good things go bad...

Without stirring the pot too much, this is a vivid example of how serious things quickly become in winter conditions. Very sobering to think of the amount of suffering that these climbers endure(d) pursuing what they love to do. My prayers are with them and their families.

 

[medic108]

Grumpy - appreciate the sentiment. In defense, briefly, it wasnt meant to be a generalization of sorts. I have personally assessed and been involved clinically with probalby 75 or more dislocations of the shoulder. And your framing of the situation is very accurate - some are easy, some are not, some are painful and some are not. Many factors.

The real issue is that a guy with a dislocation was not able to continue for whatever reason. The point I was trying to make, and did so poorly, is that for want of a frequently easy reduction, our fellow climber died alone, in a snow cave.

 

[JohnL]

Sheriff Calls Off Search for Mount Hood Climbers

Sheriff Wampler said the men's families made the decision to end the search.

The operation is now a ''recovery effort.''

JohnL

 

[forestgnome]

Prayers and condolences to the families and freinds. Life is prescious.

 

[Tom Rankin]

I just saw this on Yahoo! Maybe there is still hope...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061221/ap_on_fe_st/japan_hibernating_man

 

[Jay H]

I was going to post that Tom... 71 degree body temperature!

from Wikipedia:

Cold

* 37°C (98.6°F) - Normal body temperature (which varies between about 36-37.5°C (96.8-99.5°F)
* 36°C (96.8°F) - Mild to moderate shivering (this drops this low during sleep). May be a normal body temperature.
* 35°C (95.0°F) - (Hypothermia) is less than 35°C (95.0°F) - Intense shivering, numbness and blueish/greyness of the skin. There is the possibility of heart irritability.
* 34°C (93.2°F) - Severe shivering, loss of movement of fingers, blueness and confusion. Some behavioural changes may take place.
* 33°C (91.4°F) - Moderate to severe confusion, sleepiness, depressed reflexes, progressive loss of shivering, slow heart beat, shallow breathing. Shivering may stop. Subject may be unresponsive to certain stimuli.
* 32°C (89.6°F) - (Medical emergency) Hallucinations, delirium, complete confusion, extreme sleepiness that is progressively becoming comatose. Shivering is absent (subject may even think they are hot). Reflex may be absent or very slight.
* 31°C (87.8°F) - Comatose, very rarely conscious. No or slight reflexes. Very shallow breathing and slow heart rate. Possibility of serious heart rhythm problems.
* 28°C (82.4°F) - Severe heart rhythm disturbances are likely and breathing may stop at any time. Patient may appear to be dead.
* 24-26°C (75.2-78.8°F) or less - Death usually occurs due to irregular heart beat or respiratory arrest; however, some patients have to been known to survive with body temperatures as low as 14°C (57.2°F)

Jay

 

[DougPaul]

I just saw this on Yahoo! Maybe there is still hope...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061221/ap_on_fe_st/japan_hibernating_man

The climbers on Mt Hood are in a much colder environment than this man was. I'm not going to say impossible, but IMO very unlikely. If I were you, I wouldn't get my hopes up.

Doug

 

[Tom Rankin]

The climbers on Mt Hood are in a much colder environment than this man was. I'm not going to say impossible, but IMO very unlikely. If I were you, I wouldn't get my hopes up.

Doug

This man in Japan is obviously very lucky. I posted this because it seemed to be related.

 

[DougPaul]

This man in Japan is obviously very lucky. I posted this because it seemed to be related.

That he was. The article didn't say anything about long term effects--would have been interesting.

IIRC, some of the long time under water survivals result in brain damage. Not quite the same event, but there might be some similarity.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

The search has been suspended.

A good summary of the search: http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/1166675108228260.xml&coll=7

Timeline:
http://www.oregonlive.com/newslogs/...e_oregonian_news/archives/2006_12.html#217233
Scroll down a bit or search on "Timeline".

Pics:
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/photos/

Summitpost.org, pics and summary:
http://www.summitpost.org/album/252008/mt-hood-rescue-overview.html

Doug