Do you like fluff? I like fluff.

[Neil]

Fluff is the glue that holds any community together. Like it or hate it, that's the way it is.

 

[Peakbagr]

Thats what makes horse racing. INFORMATION is what holds this community together.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Ah - a fluff thread discussing fluff.

One of the risks of too many fluff threads is that old fharts tend to lose interest in the site, returning less and less frequently (or at least they post less and less). I suspect part of Peakbagr's motivation last month to get a NY Forum was, in part, an attempt to lure some old fharts back. Some (I think HikerAmiga said this) value this site for its social aspect and networking value. But, IMHO, socializing and networking are of less interest to experienced hikers (they've already formed networks) so they may post less and you can end up with a site of newbies. Not that that's bad, but it probably won't sustain itself as well.

What constitutes fluff here has evolved over time. Case in point - threads involving our canine companions. I recall a thread I started a few years back, where I posted (OK, I was really bragging) that Brutus had just completed his Winter 4's - at the time he might have been the first although it's pretty common now. The thread lasted maybe a hour before it was deleted. Now, even moderators start threads about dogs. Personally, I think that's a good thing, but as Dave M. says, different squids for different kids.

 

[king tut]

FYI, there is not ONE LEGITIMATE, WELL RUN CHARITY anyone could possibly mention that darren does NOT support. That is an asinine statement...or perhaps maybe you were miscommunicating. Yes, none of us can choose to financially support ALL charities, but how can you criticize ANY LEGITIMATE, WELL RUN charity? That is some BAD juju right there.

We've all made friends thru this site first and then ROT (and most of the people there met thru this site i'm sure) and you don't pay a dime for either of them. Most importantly you can't put a price tag to the friendships and the experiences that have come out of this site. I am soooo happy that I have met everyone that i've met, it is such a great bunch of people, even if we all don't see eye to eye on everything, that's what makes us human. Even those of us that don't think we'd get along from reading posts, when it comes down to, if we were face to face, we'd be social and probably really enjoy the company.

Darren has eaten around $8,000-$10,000 since the creation of the site, and all he asks is that people donate to the BTS. Anyways, I believe that your post was rather thoughtless, I don't understand why someone would try to turn something good into such negativity. I don't believe the sarcasm above was appropriate or warranted.

ALL CHARITY PARTICIPANTS: We get PMs and can contact our friends that are members thru email, you have the right to use email and PMs to send any sort of charity messages that you choose. As a matter of fact, I just got an email from Bunchberry thru VFTT who wanted my mailing address so she could send us the form to support her for a charity. Without posting on the forum, she got a check in the mail (well, i hope you got it Bunch) from Darren and I. She was still able to use the site for charitable purposes although it was banned from the public board.

I think the Madriver post was just made out of not knowing the past happenings about this site, no malice intended. People were mad that the money that they thought they donated towards a disease may have been mis-directed towards one person's personal possessions and their own causes of self promotion. Darren has put a lot of his own time, money, and energy into the site and to see someone use the large connection of people contribute to a cause that was mis-managed, i think was a bit frustrating.

It's his house, we're just all invited over for happy hour. If he feels the need to kick me out of the house at any time, I have to respect his opinion. I post tons of fluff, but hey it's just human nature to feel a connection other than just the facts. All his intentions are good, so feel free to judge his actions, just know that there are many things under the surface that many of us do not know that influence his actions. While you may not agree with all that he does at face value, know that if you understand all the ripples in the current that makes up the big wave, you would understand that he is just trying to provide the perfect ride for everyone.

 

[Neil]

Thats what makes horse racing. INFORMATION is what holds this community together.

Remove all the fluff (ie. the social intercourse, jokes, bantering, joshing, friendly intercourse and what have you left? A very arid and lonely place.

Let me see if I can find it...

Oh yes,

Volume 73, number 321, page 54:

And here's the article title:

Best manner (incident reflective angle) in which to hold one's GPS in order to avoid sunspot aberrations while hiking Boot Spur on 15/09/2006. observations recorded while engaging in hiking activity in the state of New Hampshire during mild to moderate sunspot activity.

There ya go. No fluff...

and no readership either.

 

[sleeping bear]

What constitutes (or doesn't make) Fluff, I think, is in the eye of the beholder.

One common working definition seems to be, "if it's not what happens to interest me, then it is Fluff."

Using that definition, all the "list" and peakbagging obsessive threads here are Fluff, in my opinion. Likewise, anything that pertains to overnight backpacking now constitutes Fluff, for me, since I've become exclusively a dayhiker.

On the other hand, any thread dealing with post-hike refreshments, especially of the adult liquid variety, is anything but Fluff, to me. That's real (to mix a metaphor) meat-and-potatoes stuff, based on my own impulses and interests.

My Fluff-non-Fluff list provided above is far from exhaustive. I do have interests that reach beyond quaffing adult beverages. It's necessary to explain that because I don't want anybody to get a wrong impression or reach an erroneous conclusion ...

G.

And what a great fluff thread it is!

When I made the original post I was annoyed that fluff was getting trashed in the "sorry" thread, because it is such a big part of discussions here. That was my point with the list of thread titles. I don't have anything against any of those threads, I like the fluff and can pick and choose what to read. I'm a know it all so I guess I prefer the gear chat so I can talk up my gear and share knowledge. But when there are no good gear threads, fluff will do just fine.

As Grumpy said, fluff is different for everyone.

This is a ridiculous thread, I'm not sorry for starting it. I was just bummed because I wanted to read (and add to) the "horror stories" thread.

Oh well.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

... I was just bummed because I wanted to read (and add to) the "horror stories" thread.

Why don't you start your own? They're have been lots of horror stories threads. In fact, some have been truly disgusting.

And, disgust is in the eye of the beholder. Or is that fluff? beauty? whatever?

 

[Frodo]

Peakbagger wrote:

"Thats what makes horse racing. INFORMATION is what holds this community together."

IMO, "Friendship", "Humor", AND "Information" are what holds this community together. If this site was all JUST dry info, most of us would have left years ago...

Some fluff is good...

 

[forestgnome]

I think that's a bit more strict than was intended. This site celebrates all sorts of activities in the outdoors: bushwacks to viewless peaks, skiing a remote wooded glade, explorations by kayak of ponds and streams, fishing, photography, XC tours on old woods roads, mountain biking, camping, ice climbing, rock climbing, geocaching, short rambles with children, they're all part of the mix. IMO, "the Top" isn't a physical summit, it's more philosophical, a metaphor for getting out to where ever you want to be. Along the way we talk about gear, experiences, hardships, adventures, history, food, good times, silly times, group gatherings, music, and science.

I think it's good that we have few hard and fast rules. The site is too dynamic to try and nail things down like that. There's a quote from Dr Who (to bring in some fluff) that I think sums up my philosophy here:


-Chicken Boy-

Important post, should be read carefully, sums it all up. And as Grumpy says, fluff can be relative.

I fully expect most speed hikers and list baggers to yawn or ignore most of my posts. My experiences that I have while exploring the side of some plain ole mountain will interest some people, but others might think "what's the point in making big zig-zags down the slope of a mountain that has a trail to it's summit"? I don't view an encounter with a moose or a photo of wildlife sign as fluff on this site, but I'm sure others do.

Happy Trails

 

[mtnpa]

XXX City beer Night? Count me in. The more Xs the better.

Never mind beer night. We should have the next gathering there

 

[Peakbagr]

"IMO, "Friendship", "Humor", AND "Information" are what holds this community together. If this site was all JUST dry info, most of us would have left years ago..."

All of that is true. But people discovered and heard about this site because its probably the best source of information on the Board. I like the humor and fun stuff, but what Darren, Dave and I wrestle with is when does it just waste bandwidth and too off-purpose?
Friendships made here are great, and I've made lifelong friends who are more than hiking friends through my association with VFTT.
And while the dual role of moderator and frequent poster sometimes puts me at odds with some, its great to kick back and enjoy the back and forth humor.
But I came here for the information and differentiation from elsewhere and
believe in Darren's comments, repeated over the years. He's said that the purpose of the site is the exchange of information in a way that is difficult to locate elsewhere. Its been a hard fought effort to get there at times, but I think most of us would agree that there's a good balance the way it is now.

 

[Grumpy]

What's wrong with information delivered with wit, humor and humanness?

Does communicating information with personality automatically turn something into the dreaded Fluff?

Frankly, I think it sometimes works the other way around. Too dry makes it Fluffy enough to blow away in the faintest breeze. And entirely forgettable.

I like VFTT (or as Dave M writes it, VftT) the way it is and has been: Pretty well moderated, on topic, mostly businesslike, plenty of variety, larded with real down-to-earth humanity and altogether very grown up.

That's what makes VFTT the gold standard, in my book.

G.

 

[Peakbagr]

I don't(almost never) disagree with a well written Grumpy-ism. Now is not the time to start.

 

[Ed'n Lauky]

2810 hits in four days? I'd say that that's proof in itself that a lot of folks out there like fluff.

 

[David Metsky]

2810 hits in four days? I'd say that that's proof in itself that a lot of folks out there like fluff.

Or that they don't.

 

[DougPaul]

2810 hits in four days? I'd say that that's proof in itself that a lot of folks out there like fluff.

That is only 1 hit every 2 minutes. It might just be a small number of people obsessively rereading the thread...

Heck, it is very easy write a program to put a lot more hits than that on any thread...

Doug

 

[amstony]

WOW- what a thread

I think its time for more Nashua and Boston beer nights!!

 

[bubba]

I only like the techno fluff. That white sticky stuff can stay on the shelf at the supermarket!

I'm constantly worried that I fluff off all the time (in that I'm not in the mtns every weekend). I really enjoy hiking and all the related issues with getting there, being there and surviving. I cherish the wealth of knowledge on this board, but really enjoy the great sense(s) of humor that role off the pages of this site as well. Sometimes I scare myself when I burst out laughing at the wrong time/place!

Let me add another point of view -- this site is supporting a mature and limited collection of viewers. To a great extent, gone are the days of newbies coming on this site asking how to get to a popular trailhead. As members, we know each other, "see" each other and converse/interact on a sometimes daily basis. Many, many of us have had the opportunity to hike and play together - and then there's the party side of getting together!

I believe that there's a natural progression toward adding fluff to posts. It humors, lightens, maybe strengthens and often rounds out points of view. And personally, I like being a smart a$$ and cast that attitude about as I feel may be appropriate. Bet you never noticed!

I also think VFTT is being run pretty damn good. If I had any complaints I know where to take them and I think I'd be listened to.

In summary... fluff, for the sake of fluff, is nothing but fluff!

PS - in our house fluff is a kind way of identifying a flatus expelled through the anus. Used in a sentence: "Did you just fluff?"

 

[Adk_dib]

Remember the movie with Michael Keaton, the one where he runs a car factory for the japanese. The stoic japanese boss comes in, looks like he has no sense of humor and says "I like you, you make me laugh". I agree with Bubba, some people in here have a great sense of humor and make me laugh.

 

[KayakDan]

I think its time for more Nashua and Boston beer nights!!

Tony,I like the way you think!