don't fear orange!

[NewHampshire]

Hunters don't have special rights to the forest.

I agree. As long as someone is not purposefully disrupting a hunter or fisherman in the pursuit of their game (which in a lot of states is quickly becoming illegal) then there should be no problem. Heck, most hunters are used to at least other hunters accidentally walking into them in the woods. Just give the guy a wave to let him know your there and you see him, and that he sees you, and be along your way.

Hunting, hiking...its all good!

Brian

 

[bikehikeskifish]

WHY do orange-wearers get dirty looks? That, it seems, was the original post's intention.

Is it because

A) Hikers are worried about getting shot at
B) Hikers are opposed to people shooting bambi
C) Snobby city folk who hike once per year are opposed to rednecks shooting deer
D) Some other reason I've not thought of

It's probably A, B and A+B, depending on who you ask, but I wonder which one is the plurality. I'm sure a minuscule number fall under C, which was largely tongue-in-cheek.

I'm not a hunter, but I enjoy venison, and make sure to keep my hunting friends supplied with fresh fish all summer long so they remember me when they hang up a buck.

Tim

 

[Maddy]

Statistics don't bear this out. If you look at fatalities per vehicle mile traveled, interstates are much safer for a number of reasons:
No at grade intersections (stop lights/signs etc. where most accidents occur)
No driveways/side streets
No pedestrians/bicycles
Opposing traffic is separated by a median or barrier (prevents head on collisions which are the most severe)
Better visibility (no sharp turns, mostly straight, no sharp vertical crests)

Absolutely... the statistics do show this. This is good news for all those who live their lives according to statistics.
I live my life according to my own experience, both in and out of the trauma center.
I am not a match for a tractor trailer in a storm. Been there, done that, and will never risk it again.
I don't encourage anyone to do what I do. In fact, I love that most folks want to be on the interstates. MY back roads are even more peaceful and beautiful, especially in big snow storms. I merely choose to take "the road less travelled". How cool is that
I bet the statistics for hiking in the woods during hunting season also indicate that it is very safe providing you are wearing orange.
I always think that all the statistics in the world don't matter if you are the one who is on the receiving end of a serious injury or fatality.
I do not feel at all deprived because I choose to avoid certain behaviors and I do understand and respect other peoples points of view.
How boring would it be if we were ALL the same.
Just think....we wouldn't even need statistics.

 

[--M.]

My initial reaction to the original post was that I had had similar experiences with the very worst of the loose-dog owners I've run into. The other 95% were at least tolerably cool, but there have always been a few knuckleheads who just don't get it.

But what I've learned from that experience is that many fights don't need to happen, and, as "Cesar" (Millan, the Dog Whisperer) would say, the lead dog does not fight with other dogs: it's beneath him.

In both the case of the glarers and the glaree, I would say forestnome is expecting too much of people. The glarers can share the sandbox and he/you don't need to take such offense. Assurance of one's position is all the comfort one needs. That's what enables the smile & friendly wave even/especially when greeted with a glare. To do anything less makes one less of a lead dog and more of a ladder-climbing middler. Let 'em eat cake.

In the end, Kant & Mill rule this roost: we either live and let live, or we make ourselves miserable trying to legislate each other out of business.

Sorry to bring up dogs, Dave.

--M.

 

[sleeping bear]

You must be kidding. It's uncourteous and disrespectful to leave the trail during rifle season? Couldn't another hunter do that? Deer rifle season is a month long, not two weeks. So when is it disrespectful and uncourteous to leave the trail, and why is it ok during bow season but disrespectful during rifle season. What's the difference?

Hunters don't have special rights to the forest.

Nobody has special rights to the forest (except maybe native americans? ). I was just implying that because hunting season is short (apparently shorter here than there) it's not unreasonable to compromise.

I draw the distinction between bow and rifle season because 1- bow season is longer (at least around here), 2- there are generally a lot less hunters out, and 3- you have to be a lot closer to shoot something with a bow, giving you better sight, thus I assume it is safer to go tromping through the woods.

 

[spider solo]

I also used to think bow season was safer, I don't know what the stats are,
however earlier this fall our friend cancelled his visit to go hiking as he wanted to attend his friends funeral.

His friend was shot to death, by an arrow, while out bow hunting.

Personlly, I don't even rake leaves in my own yard without putting on some orange during "the season".
Nor do I do any bushwhacking during that time. I caution my wife each time she wants to go gather some kindling in the surounding woods during that time, even on our own property.


Beer....... it is more of an optimist than myself who think it is for after they put the weapons away. Why else do we find beer cans all shot to pieces...

 

[forestgnome]

Nobody has special rights to the forest (except maybe native americans? ). I was just implying that because hunting season is short (apparently shorter here than there) it's not unreasonable to compromise.

I draw the distinction between bow and rifle season because 1- bow season is longer (at least around here), 2- there are generally a lot less hunters out, and 3- you have to be a lot closer to shoot something with a bow, giving you better sight, thus I assume it is safer to go tromping through the woods.

Well, that is different than implying that bushwacking is disrespectful during hunting season. Actually, I do very much consider where the hunters are. My bushwacking in autumn is not where many would hunt deer, specifically higher elevations and far from roads. I would definately avoid an area if I knew hunters were in there, both for my safety and their enjoyment. In fact, that Champney Falls Tr hike was originally going to take me up to Middle Sister summit, then down the north side through the Steam Mill Brook drainage, but I saw a hunter walking in, rifle in hand, up that drainage, on my way to the trailhead. So, I took a different route.

Also, I don't think it's ok to be impolite to hunters either. I simply wanted hikers to be aware of the fact that hikers wear orange. Fellow nature lovers are incorrectly identifying other nature lovers as someone they dislike.

--M, agree with your post, except that "forestnome is expecting too much". Expecting a polite greeting to not be met with dirty looks or rudeness is expecting too much?!!! Glad I live in rural New Hampshire!!!

 

[Tom Rankin]

Statistics don't bear this out. If you look at fatalities per vehicle mile traveled, interstates are much safer for a number of reasons:

While this is true in general, I wonder how many accidents happen on Interstate Highways in blizzards, vs on back roads. My experience is that Maddy is correct about that.

This is like being afraid to fly. While it is safer than driving, the problem some people have is that in a plane crash, there are almost 100% fatalities. Many car accidents are survivable. I'm not sure where being shot fits in....

 

[Mike P.]

Defined Rural back road? Where you see no one or something like 302, Route 2, Route 3, etc. The interstates are plowed the best, they are treated with the most sand/salt/etc. Route 2 isn't so safe less plow activity, more curves, oncoming traffic & logging trucks.

When I get up early in the AM for a long drive from CT to the trails & it involves either snowy travel or being on the road soon after the bars close (or near the casino's which encourage late nights & free drinks so you lose money) I prefer wide well lit roads with travel in one direction, not two. Since the casinos are open I see more one car accidents on Route 2 hitting the guardrail or off the other shoulder. If oncoming traffic was seperated by just a double yellow line, how is that safer?

While no car is a match for a tractor trailer or logging truck, IMO more accidents occur due to automobiles pulling in front of trucks in that big space trucks leave in front of themselves. There's a good reason they leave that space, they need it to stop. Sure when a truck has faulty equipment & hits a bunch of stopped cars, it makes the press but from what I see on the road (& I'm on it a lot) the lion's share of stupid driving I see is done in cars, including 4x4's driven by people who yjink that means they can stop on ice.

In all the years I was hunting I don't recall meeting anyone rude who thought they were the best hunter or who thought their camo was better than someone elses based on the label or what it cost, it was usually about what you had in the back of the truck at the end of the day or in your field jacket. 99.7% of the hikers I've meant have been great too but I've met a couple I could not see again & I'd be just fine.

As far as bushwhacking during hunting season, maybe just hiking in from the road to a swamp or field should be discouraged but I'm thinking it's been quite a while since a deer, moose or bear was shoot on the top of Allen (does Pin Pin pack a rifle) or the top of the Captain of Vose Spur. It would take you the better part of a whole day(s?) to drag anything out from there. (And you think a winter pack through thick bruch is bad?????)

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Fellow nature lovers are incorrectly identifying other nature lovers as someone they dislike.

Most hunters I know would consider themselves nature lovers -- the serious ones scout for months in advance of hunting season, observing all of nature's clues and making notes. Getting an animal is gravy. They call it 'hunting' not 'killing'. Most are respectful. Some fishermen I know are likewise self-labeled. They call it 'fishing', not 'catching'. Once you've caught your own fish and eaten it you will find it hard to buy fish that's 3 or 4 days old. Likewise, venison sure spoils my palette for feedlot beef.

I suspect the hunters of dubious repute are really not hunters, but rather people requiring an excuse to get away from their responsibilities and drink beer with their buddies.

Expecting a polite greeting to not be met with dirty looks or rudeness is expecting too much?!!! Glad I live in rural New Hampshire!!!

New Englanders have a reputation for being cold, and in my experience, that applies mostly to the cities (I lived in Somerville, MA for a few years right out of college.) You don't have to be wearing blaze orange to get the cold shoulder. I went to Telluride, CO once and just about everyone I met stopped and ask me where I was from and how I was doing -- I felt as though I was on candidate camera.


Anyone care to address the "why"?

Tim

 

[Stan]

Why else do we find beer cans all shot to pieces...

It must be the frustration of their being empty.

Count me among those who, out of some combination of personal interest in safety and gratitude for an occasional venison steak, avoids hunting destinations during season ... usually.

After losing countless hours of sleep and time reading this thread I've concluded that the reaction to forestnome's attire was less along the line of disdain than amazement that so many articles of clothing came in such a color and that one person would have the color coordination to wear all those items at once. Besides, they had probably thought they wouldn't need sunglasses that day. In conclusion, it was all about fashion and had nothing to do with the great hunter:hiker debate.

 

[Waumbek]

It must be the frustration of their being empty.

Count me among those who, out of some combination of personal interest in safety and gratitude for an occasional venison steak, avoids hunting destinations during season ... usually.

After losing countless hours of sleep and time reading this thread I've concluded that the reaction to forestnome's attire was less along the line of disdain than amazement that so many articles of clothing came in such a color and that one person would have the color coordination to wear all those items at once. Besides, they had probably thought they wouldn't need sunglasses that day. In conclusion, it was all about fashion and had nothing to do with the great hunter:hiker debate.

Amen. My OrangeWear is nowhere near so complete although I've been collecting it for years. Darn stuff never wears out.

 

[giggy]

Anyone care to address the "why"?

Tim

becuase people really can't get along and tend to associate with people like them. only difference b/t new england'ers and other area's (including europe) is in new england you tend to know where you stand with people right away - other places - its nicey nicey to your face, and then the knife is in your back.

forestnome got crap b/c he prolly looked and acted a bit different than the average hiker. Its not a secret - we align oursleves by hobbies, socio ecomonic status, culture, race, religion, etc... FN looked like a hunter and lets tell it like it is - there are many here that despise hunters.

I am freinds with both and heard bad things about both about each other. Unless they hike and hunt - its likely the convo goes something like this:

hiker: damn hunters ruining the enviroment
hunter: damn granola hikers trying to save the word...animals aren't people!!

just telling it like I see it.....I don't think we can get all get along.....

 

[DougPaul]

Amen. My OrangeWear is nowhere near so complete although I've been collecting it for years. Darn stuff never wears out.

You should wear it year-round if you want to wear it out...

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

forestnome got crap b/c he prolly looked and acted a bit different than the average hiker. Its not a secret - we align oursleves by hobbies, socio ecomonic status, culture, race, religion, etc... FN looked like a hunter and lets tell it like it is - there are many here that despise hunters.

I am freinds with both and heard bad things about both about each other. Unless they hike and hunt - its likely the convo goes something like this:

hiker: damn hunters ruining the enviroment
hunter: damn granola hikers trying to save the word...animals aren't people!!

One little detail that we keep dancing around (or if you prefer, the elephant in the room...): Hikers face a much greater risk of being shot by a hunter than hunters of being shot by a hiker.

Rightly or wrongly, many hikers perceive a greater overall risk when hunters are around and fear them.

And those of us who wear orange this time of year (and not at other times) aren't likely to be doing it simply because they like the color...

Doug

 

[Grumpy]

Trends and Tastes ...

I think there has developed a prejudice against bright colored clothing and gear worn and used by hikers.

Back in the dark ages of the early 1970s – about the time I finally started having a little surplus jingle in my pockets -- I purchased my first “premium” quality tent – a great Sierra Designs three-man hex design in bright “international” orange. I also picked up a nice Alpine Designs rucksack in orange-red color, and got Mrs. Grumpy a similarly colored Alpine Designs “summit” pack. My 60-40 parka was red, my down vest was red, Mrs. G’s Kelty pack bag was red, our canoe was … red.

High visibility clothing and gear was regarded as a safety thing. The idea was, if something went wrong you wanted to be readily seeable.

I always thought the reds and oranges stood as nice contrasts against the green, earth tone, gray and white natural backdrops in hiking scenes, and helped make a lot of color photographs come to life.

A decade or two later the worm had pretty well turned and the new “rage” was earth tones that blend into the landscape and don’t make a “splash.” Colorful clothing and gear was regarded as garish and obnoxious. Hikers were supposed to be all but invisible in the natural environment. Only in recent years have we seen some color returning to the market for hiker stuff, but the selection remains dominated by more subdued hues.

So I can well imagine some – maybe many -- hikers these days giving the weenie eye to a guy whose woods walking ensemble is predominantly bright orange. “We came here to see and bond with nature, not be visually overwhelmed by some obnoxious creep,” they’d perhaps mutter.

And as for my own choice? My pack is red. I tie a bright orange bandanna on it in hunting season – and lately even have left the bandanna hang there all year around. I have a red fleece and in cooler months wear a red muffler.

Mrs. Grumpy likes more subdued colors these days, but during hunting season wears a good splash of orange. She has not yet indicated a developing taste for purple, and I hope she never does.

G.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

And those of us who wear orange this time of year (and not at other times) aren't likely to be doing it simply because they like the color...

Speak for yourself! (Although I prefer day-glo pink)

http://newmud.comm.uottawa.ca/~pete/tmp/fashion2.jpg

 

[giggy]

Speak for yourself! (Although I prefer day-glo pink)

http://newmud.comm.uottawa.ca/~pete/tmp/fashion2.jpg

pete - do you like the pet shop boys???? just kidding - typically, I like the color thats on sale..... I would wear that as well - no problem - in fact, I have a pink ems small book bag I take to work - and people prolly think I like the pet shop boys...............

actually - pet shop boys are ok i guess.........

 

[Grumpy]

Speak for yourself! (Although I prefer day-glo pink)

http://newmud.comm.uottawa.ca/~pete/tmp/fashion2.jpg

Pete, you certainly are a fashion plate!

G.

 

[Neil]

Not to be outdone by Mr. H. I just ordered THIS for hunting season. To my surprise it comes in 60-40 material, just like my old shell.