essential winter backcountry gear?

[WCTDave]

I apoligize in advance because I'm sure this question has been answered numerous times but the threads I found really didn't answer my questions too well.

I plan to delve into winter hiking this year; 'dacks, greens and whites. What are the essential items I need to own for day hiking 4k peaks? I currently own light winter clothing (3-layer), mountaineering boots and lightning ascents. I figure I need crampons (step-in) and a pair of ice axes (are they essential?) and an hooded, insulated parka. What am I missing, avalanche kit? I want to make sure I have all the basics in the event I tag along with a group.

Past experience includes multi-days in Alaska and BC, overnights in ADKs (about 10 peaks) and a couple Long Trail dayhikes.

I'm not expecting to do any overnights this winter. Thanks in advance!

 

[Ridgerunner]

With a group ?

Laphroaig, 10 years. Keep the 15 for yourself.

 

[hikerfast]

another scotch drinker..its catching. nh liquor stores have 15 year old laphroaig for cheap. get it while you can

 

[Chip]

I'm not expecting to do any overnights this winter. Thanks in advance!

You will still want enough on you for a "comfortable" emergency stay, however.
A delay in the winter is all it takes; a twisted ankle, etc.

This is a great check-list that EMS uses for it's winter mountaineering classes.

 

[sli74]

I figure I need crampons (step-in) and a pair of ice axes (are they essential?) and an hooded, insulated parka. What am I missing, avalanche kit? I want to make sure I have all the basics in the event I tag along with a group.

For basic winter mountaineering, you don't need a PAIR of ice axes. If you think you will be in conditions where the slope and ice conditions require AN ice axe, one winter mountaineering axe will be enough. The axe you buy needs to be one meant for winter mountaineering, longer and straight and not the ones for ice climbing, shorter and curved.

If you don't have much winter experience, I cannot tell from your post if you are totally new to winter hiking or not . . . then you should start smaller and/or more travelled trails and work your way up. There was a good thread a while back on this, I will dig through the archives and try to find you a link.

Have fun, winter hiking is the BEST !!!!

EDIT: Here are a couple of links to older posts.

http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4253&highlight=winter+newbie

http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8466&highlight=winter+gear

sli74

 

[dave.m]

For starting, I would stay clear of ice axes and avy equipment. You should read up (Freedom of the Hills) and ask everybody you can to determine locations where slides of life and avalanches could occur. The best way to deal with these locations is to avoid them and give them a very wide berth. Instead, focus on learning how to travel in the winter. Later on, you can move into more inherently dangerous terrain, or not. I've hiked and skied in the Whites for 20 years and have never carried either. But then, I've never done Washington in the winter and restrict myself to routes where sliding has no ramifications and there is no avy danger. Brave Sir Robin is my hero.

IMO, 10pt strap on crampons are better than 12pt step ins. You are less likely to gouge your legs and you shouldn't be doing any front pointing anyway. Strap ons are more clumsy true, but they don't pop off at the wrong time.

GoreTex is not needed and not wanted unless you are above treeline.

A monster hooded parka is a must, imo.

Regarding bivy gear, here is my take (other may differ). When the party is 3 or more, bivy sack and 20F sleeping bag go along to help an injured person survive. With 2 people (or solo), just a bivy sack. I fall into the "speed is safety" category at that point.

 

[hikerfast]

have synthetic underwear top and bottom- first layer
have wind and waterproof pants and jacket(thin with hood)-last layer
wool hat
winter boots with 2 pair socks(not cotton)
mittens and goretex overmitts
i carry fleece pants but dont wear em(too hot)
carry 3 layers to have between your underwear top and your wind jacket. you probably wont wear much going uphill.
pack with water(2 quarts anyway) in a sock or insulated holder. bring 2 or 3 sandwiches.
try below treeline first. get a face mask if you want to go above treeline
carry snowshoes with you if there isnt much snow at the bottom, otherwise wear em.

then the usual hiking stuff(headlamp, first aid kid, map, compass etc.)
i wear high sorel boots so i dont bother with gaiters cause my wind pants go way down to my ankles.
dress up on a freezing day and just walk around your yard or the neighborhood and see how cold you get wearing what. see if your headlamp works in the cold without getting lithium batteries. see if your hands get cold to tell if your handwear is good. have a seat for 15 minutes on your steps and just see how you feel wearing what. its pretty easy to find out how cold you get in the wind and such, then you have a good idea of what hiking is like. most people bring layers instead of some fat parka, usually you cant wear a hot layer when hiking. at winter class they told us 5 layers was as good as a fat coat.

 

[WCTDave]

Thanks sli, I missed that second post...full of good information. The reason I mentioned an ice axe is because I can see even a small ADK slide covered in ice being problematic. Question, how do you size an axe as far as length?

I'm definitely going to start with peakless trails the first 5 or 6 times out until I get a feel for how fast I hike in different conditions. I think I'm all set with clothing...more or less...I'm more concerned with technical equipment. I have Leki poles, going to order snow baskets. I'll keep my eye on the Trips forum too.

No liquor for me...maybe a nice, thick Russian Imperial stout though.

No true winter hiking experience, aside from some late summer snowfields in Alaska.

Thanks for the replys.

 

[Neil]

The stuff you need is listed here

Proper footwear, and at the other end, a half decent brain are pretty important.

Have fun!

 

[dave.m]

Question, how do you size an axe as far as length?

If you really feel compelled to get an axe, get some proper instruction via AMC or a good guide service. Pity... I lost the link to a great jpeg of the guy who impaled himself with his axe up in Tucks several years ago. It's not an uncommon injury.

Worse, carrying an axe will lull you into attempting to go places where a fall could kill you. For trail hiking, all you need for stability is crampons and ski poles.

I really, really think getting an axe is the very, very last bit of equipment a winter hiker in New England needs. Well, that and avi probes and beacons.

 

[WCTDave]

Fair enough, you convinced me...this is why I asked for advice. I got no problem not spending $90 on something I won't/shouldn't need anyway. I appreciate all the advice.

 

[the starchild]

what everyone else said and another 2cents of advice,
i have no idea what you already own for clothing, but definetly just take local trips to Avon mtn and try out different clothing and layering and really tune into what works well for you in different conditions before just buying items on a list. Once you really start learning what keeps you dry and warm in different conditions, with different weight packs, climbing or descending, you'll be making much better decisions about what to buy/pack/wear. Then go out and shop around and buy more gear!

the important thing is to stay safely warm, yet not sweat too much and get wet. the winter is a brilliant time to be out in the woods, enjoy!

 

[Tom Rankin]

Fair enough, you convinced me...this is why I asked for advice. I got no problem not spending $90 on something I won't/shouldn't need anyway. I appreciate all the advice.

If you want to try Winter hiking in the Catskills, let me know. It's below treeline quite a bit, and the distances and elevation gains are less on average than the Whites and ADKs.

 

[dug]

Saki. Heat it up and sip on it all night while freezing your ass off in the tent. Nothing better than warm booze

 

[WCTDave]

If you want to try Winter hiking in the Catskills, let me know. It's below treeline quite a bit, and the distances and elevation gains are less on average than the Whites and ADKs.

Yeah, I think I'd be up for that...my weekends are spoken for until after Thanksgiving unfortunately. Thankfully I got up to VT for the day.

 

[Mattl]

I make sure I bring about 5 pairs of wool socks, thats my biggest need winter hiking. -Matt L

 

[BrentD22]

interesting

Fair enough, you convinced me...this is why I asked for advice. I got no problem not spending $90 on something I won't/shouldn't need anyway. I appreciate all the advice.

One might say you'll never need an ice axe in the whites in non-avi areas or below 4000 feet or something.

Last winter when hiking up Chocorua of all mountains I couldn't find the trail above the cabin. I started straight up the summit cone (very steep). I didn't bring my ice axe although I brought my poles. I started up the very steep summit cone, the snow I was on started to slide (mini avalanche) and I began to slide down the slope. I used my self arrest skills with one of my hiking poles and mananged to stop sliding about 40 feet from where I was. I was lucky if I managed to get just above where I was then slipped I would have dropped off some of the open ledgey area on the cabin side of the summit cone. I hiked back down to cabin and told myself that I would never leave my ice axe in the car again! The next day someone that new the mountain and could find the trail went up. I woke up as they where headed down and asked them if they found the trail ok. They said yes, so I followed their boot marks in the snow. I was still nervous going up the trail on the summit cone for fear of slipping.

It's light has many uses (theres a thread about other uses) and it could save your life = ice axe.

Many good suggestions about layers and gear. I agree with DaveM that an ice axe can bring you to areas where a fall could kill you. So don't say well I have an ice axe so I'm safe.

Chemical heat packs are great in the morning with breakfast. I put them in my boots keeping them up laced in the morning to warm up my boots and feet. I put them under my ass to keep it warm on the bench/floor or what ever I'm sitting on and in very cold conditions I put on on top of my head under my hat!

It gets dark early so head lamps, mini lanters, and glow sticks are all good items to bring. Along with a good book. I have a hard time sleeping 8 straight hours at home. I usually go with 6 or so hours nightly so it's difficult for me to go to bed at 8:30pm and attempt to sleep through out the cold night until 6 or 7am the next morning. Waking up cold stinks and waking up cold 35 times a night cold SUCKS!

Bring plenty of food because you'll eat almost twice what you normally eat.

I don't know your skills so I'll stop there. If you have any question on specific items or "things" post.

 

[sierra]

I completely dissagree with a previous responder to this post. Gore-Tex for some reason is getting a bad rap by some on this board, Gore-Tex has always been and continues to be a staple imo. Secondly, although not needed on some trails, an ice -axe is a required winter tool for sure. People seem to think just because you may get hurt you should not use one altogether, that is scewed logic at best. I climb alot in the Whites and use my ice axe quite abit going up and down. I guess it would help if we discussed specific routes and only then could anyone give an educated opinion on wether an ax is needed.

 

[dave.m]

Sierra,

Perhaps you could explain when and where you feel GoreTex is important to have in the winter. Personally, I think GoreTex rocks and I won't go into the woods spring through fall without it. Two weekends ago I went up to Crag and it was 2 days of solid rain with temps in the mid 30s. I would never consider going into that type of weather without Gtx. But after years of over heating and sweating and frosting up in the winter, I've found that plain nylon works much better below treeline. I stay drier and much more comfortable. The 2 places that are exceptions to this are fast downhill skiing (usually lift served conditions) or time above treeline. In both cases, the superior windproofness of Gtx is the thing.

Regarding ice axes, perhaps you could name some routes or trails where you feel that an ice axe is superior than ski poles (both with crampons). Personally, I draw that line in places where a fall could lead to a slide. But I would be interested to hear what conditions you are thinking of.

Brent, regarding your slide on Chacura, that's a pretty sobering story. I've watched a slough take 3 people for a ride at Tucks about 10 years ago. Do you think an axe would have significantly changed the outcome for you? I ask because in general, I don't associate self arrest as a way to deal with slides, per se. Other than the smallest of surface sloughs, I thought the best thing to do in an avalanche was to ditch stuff like skis, poles and axes. My understanding (and I could be very wrong on this) was that the theory was these objects would pull you deeper into the slide or impale you.

Does anybody know if that section on Chacura is known as a traditional slide path?

 

[WCTDave]

Interesting conversation, but I'm thoroughly confused