Everest: Beyond the Limit. Discussion Note ***WITH SPOILERS***

[stu]

I'm with Giggy and Jess on this one. Maybe I just have low standards but I enjoyed the camera footage of the mountain and such. I would rather watch this (when I'm too tired to read), than some of the other mindless stuff. (I tvo'ed it and fast forwarded through the commercials)

 

[Maddy]

I finished watching the last 45" which I missed when I fell asleep on Tues. I did like it. I think they have a lot to cover in one hour so they cannot get be as detailed as a book would be. The motorcycle man (forgot his name) worries me because of the hardware he had in his back.
I wonder what their criteria is for accepting people on this kind of expedition.I thought you had to be in top physical condition because the risk is so great to everyone.
I would love to go there but I thing the IMax film will be the closest I ever get. Saw it at the Museum of Science six times.
The sherpa with the new prosthetics was so cute! Can't believe he walked on his knees all that time.

 

[smitty77]

whenever the tour de france comes around every year, you get the exact same criticism of oln.... there could be no coverage at all.

When I was younger, I remember parking myself next to Max as he tuned in the BBC on the shortwave to get the daily updates on the GC from the tour. This is back when ABC would carry only 1 hour of coverage on a Sunday, and 55 min of that coveregae was centered around American cyclists (Andy Hampsten, Greg Lemond, Davis Phinney, etc.) I find todays coverage infinitely better and tell myself to just suck it up and deal with the corny commentary. This series is similar in that I'd rather have some so-so coverage than none at all.

As for the show, I knew it wouldn't be geared toward the hardcore mountaineer. No one would watch. What I think it will do is hopefully cast a light on the harsh realities of guided climbs. My wife and I had very different opinions when the story broke about a "climber left to die" on Everest. She watched this with me the other night and it opened her eyes to the physical demands of trying to merely exist at 21000 ft, nevermind attempting a rescue. We're both former EMTs, and she was shocked when they mentioned O2 sats of 50-60 were normal for advanced base camp. Watching them lower that man suffering from cerebral edema fown to ABC was also very sobering. I told her to imagine doing that at 27000 feet, with much less O2 in the air and with half as many people.

I like the little "layman's facts" that they throw in there. Most people don't realize the air is too thin to support a helicopter rescue. They have no idea how sick you can become at altitude, and how fast you can go from being vertical to being on your death bed. They don't realize you can overload anchors with too many people in one place. And I think many still view attempt of Everest as done by a group of a few select climbers that should be looking out for each other. I was utterly amazed at the ant-like line of climbers ascending the lower ice walls. It was like climbing Monadnock on the 4th of July - an endless stream of people. Up there you're not part of a group, but just another face in the crowd. This was evident when Biker-guy Tim was lagging far behind, and his own group wasn't even aware. I'm not saying it's right, but in many ways Everest is mirroring every day life. Look out for #1 because no one else will.

I'll watch again next week. Maybe even the whole series.

 

[blownaway]

Tuesday Night TV

Thank heavens for the VCR.....If I had to pick between Everest and Boston Legal, Denny C would win out......

 

[Hampshire]

The North Side

I'm having a tough time supporting anything involving Russell Brice (Expedition Leader), see attached link.
http://www.mounteverest.net/news.php?news=15288

There has been much debate regarding Brice and his climbing ethics. Its amazing that the Discovery Channel would promote him, especially in light of the David Sharp incident.

Please note that this expedition was on the North Side of Everest, not the more popular South Side.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

[EDIT: This is the same story as Hampshire's post above]


A VFTT lurker sent me the following link. It is quite opinionated -- there is no end of criticism for Russell Brice, commercialization of Everest and the entire Discovery production affair.

http://www.mounteverest.net/news.php?news=15279

I'm still going to watch it, just like I watch Al Trautwig cover the TdF -- it's better then nothing. (Although I have learned to tape the live TdF coverage and watch that -- Phil and Paul do a bang-up job with the audio.)

Tim

 

[giggy]

Hampshire: thanks for that link - I may have to change my tune a bit based on what this says. I actually read quite a bit on this stuff, I never heard of the Brice guy.

 

[smitty77]

Please note that this expedition was on the North Side of Everest, not the more popular South Side.

And I was amazed at the amount of people lining up (literally) to climb the "less popular" North Side. The South side must look like the turnstiles on the "T" at rush hour.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Out of fairness, I post Russell Brice's "reflections on 2006", from his web site, www.himex.com. Warning: It contains information (spoilers) which are not yet revealed in the TV series. It also goes into details about David Sharp and Lincoln Hall.

http://www.himex.com/c_pub/en/news/2006/reflections_on_everest.php

Tim

 

[beverly]

Thanks for the article, Hampshire

It is quite chilling and illuminating.

Six-part series about greed, blind ambition and money

Filmmaker Dick Colthurst says he went to Mount Everest hoping to learn why people risk their lives climbing. After 48 days on Everest, he told AP he still doesn't understand. "While I admire what they do and how they do it, and the sheer mental and physical strength that it takes to do it, I'm honestly no nearer to understanding why they do it," the executive producer for London-based Tigress Productions, told The Associated Press.

Of course he doesn't understand - the soul of high altitude climbing won't show in 48 days - even less through the eyes of Himex.

"My name is David Sharp, I am with Asian Trekking" were the last words of a dying independent climber speaking into Discovery Channel's camera. Then, the camera was shut off, and the crew was ordered by Russell Brice to descend. David died later that night, alone out in the cold, a mere one hour's climb from the warmth of high camp.

But we won't get to see that. Whatever it is we will see on Tuesday, it won't be about mountaineering - or Everest even. It will be a six-part series about greed, blind ambition and money. Such a documentary airing on a channel like Discovery is yet another nail in the coffin for Everest climbing.

It confirms my feeling that this series is problematic television viewing.

 

[SherpaKroto]

I'll TiVO it, watch at my leisure, skip the commercials, and enjoy the scenery. Sure as heck beats watching Oprah...

 

[bikehikeskifish]

If you missed it, it's on again several times per week (tomorrow, Friday 11/17 @8pm) -- See the Discovery web site (www.discovery.com) for schedules.

Tim

 

[Carmel]

well, i really enjoyed it...and then felt a little ill reading that first link.

I think it was a good show for discovery channel who tends to make shows to educate and entertain people, not to make them experts on subjects.

the average person doesn't know anything about this stuff (i don't think the average american can name the seven continents or tell you where the Vietnam war took place (you think i'm kidding, we took a poll in the trainer's room at my college (yes, college) once...its SCARY!!!!)

I didn't learn anything in particular from watching it, but I liked the camara work and i didn't fall asleep.

as far as the ethics and people dying, i don't have too much of an opinion that i care to voice except when you get people who think money can buy a summit, you have a problem.

with human nature, no matter how much you tell people something (such as how dangerous altitude is) they don't get it, until they go thru it. I had a plane ticket to peru/bolivia/etc in hand when darren told me about the altitude sickness i could get. i thought, whatever, i'm a strong girl, i won't get sickl, he doesn't know anything (i hadn't even heard of high altitude sickness). yeah...guess who's vomited for the first three days, nose bled for the entire month and a half, and who slept with a camelback next to her pillow every night because she was so dehydrated (i still had a GREAT time tho)??? yeah...me. so, people don't get it till they experience it...its sad to see people die learning tho.

on the other hand, i'm disapointed that it isn't in high-def.

However, I have to say, i do like the doctor.

 

[coldfeet]

Carmel, my mom went to Peru probably 7-10 years ago, she's now 77.....she told me how difficult it was to go there because of the altitude....they gave her leaves to eat
(cocaine ) to help with nausious.....she also told me that it's not a good place for the elderly to travel because of health related reasons...(heart problems)

Imagine failing a drug test because I chewed on plants in Peru?

 

[Toe Cozy]

Kill Your Television

 

[Carmel]

Carmel, my mom went to Peru probably 7-10 years ago, she's now 77.....she told me how difficult it was to go there because of the altitude....they gave her leaves to eat
(cocaine ) to help with nausious.....she also told me that it's not a good place for the elderly to travel because of health related reasons...(heart problems)

Imagine failing a drug test because I chewed on plants in Peru?

don't worry, your mom wasn't doing cocaine, she was chewing on the coca leaves, you need to add a bunch of chemicals to the coca plant to get cocaine...they do random drug searches down there, the coca is legal, but if they find the chemicals used to make cocaine, you are all done!



hee hee...grandma doing cocaine in peru, tsk tsk.

 

[TomD]

Carmel and Coldfeet, I lived in Bolivia years ago. The locals chew coca leaves to combat altitude sickness and the cold. They would also make a tea from the leaves, which is great for headaches.

My house was in a suburb of La Paz at 11.5K ft and we regularly went up to 12.5-13K, just driving up to the city. I think the highest I ever was was around 16K-not climbing, just drove up to a lake to go fishing.

AMS (acute mountain sickness) is serious. It almost killed me twice. Not everyone can handle high altitude regardless of how much money they have for gear and a guide. Even at my fittest, I doubt I could have survived above 18-20K.

If you want a big mountain experience on a budget, climb in New Zealand; the peaks are a lot lower so altitude and the extreme cold isn't as much of a factor. The climbing can be almost as much of a challenge and the views there are spectacular, even if you're just hiking.

 

[adirobdack46r]

I caught Friday's re-showing of what I believe was the first episode. From reading this thread I had a preconceived opinion of what I was about to see, but had to see it for myself. I'm sure much that has been said here may be true and that many of you who know better find it easy to sit there watching it and tear it apart. I love to hike but do nothing extreme so shamely I'll have to put myself in the "don't know any better" group along side much of todays population. Had I just stumbled upong it while flipping channels it would most certainly have gotten my attention. As commercial and made for TV as it may look, I give anyone on that mountain credit for attempting such as task and enduring those elements. Even if finances were not the issue, it is too extreme for me to ever try.

I'm not promoting anyone or any company here but just thought I'd throw these names out in case they are familiar to any of you. Turns out it is a small world. I work in a medium sized hospital up upstate NY and I'm good friends with an employee here who has a nephew that is a guide and has summited Everest. His name is Mike Hamill, I'm told he works for Eric Simonson at International Mountain Guides. Bet he could tell me a story or two.

 

[AntlerPeak]

Kill Your Television

I have not watched any of this show because commercial tv usually messes this topic up in the name of sensationalism and pandering. But more in line with Toe's great quote I recall years ago watching a major network's televising a pair of climbers ascending Devils Tower.

Who the climbers were I don't recall but they were real climbers not some "reality show wannabees." The network had these guys miked up and the announcers were asking one stupid question after another. As one guy was trying a difficult move at an overhang he placed his hand into a crack. The announcer says to the climber, "arn't you afraid of rattlesnakes in those cracks?. The climber turns his head and stares back toward the camera somewhere below him. His expression was priceless as in slow motion he removes his head set and drops the mike to the rocks below. The announcer, sports jock or whatever he was couldn't think of anything to say as the climber turned to complete his move.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Episode 2 is on tonight at 10pm

Reminder -- Episode 2 is on tonight at 10PM

Tim