Fatality on Mt. Guyot

[maineguy]

She lacked the experience, skillsets and knowledge to succeed within the endeavor she was pursuing.

Bingo! That's it in a nutshell. This is the cause of these kind of fatalities...the person mistakenly believes they possess those skills, experience and knowledge, when in fact, they do not.

I have every issue of Appalachia going back to 1951 and have read all the accident reports. I remember reading one account (from the 90s I think) involving a rescue of winter hikers attempting a traverse of the Wildcats that wound up having to be rescued. There was a write up in Appalachia about the incident which placed the blame solely on the inadequate skill level of the participants. One of those hikers took issue with that analysis and wrote a rebuttal, which also appeared in a subsequent issue of Appalachia. Gene Daniel, who was the accidents editor at the time gave a response somewhat along the lines of: "you obviously did not possess the necessary skills and experience since you had to be rescued".

 

[skiguy]

I had no idea about this, thanks for the information, I stand corrected.

I started out with the Coleman, brings back memories. I went to the Optimus 8R with the pump and used that successfully for many years. I set up a camp on White Mt peak in CA at about 11,680 after driving in from San Francisco and it was too much gain in one day, got altitude sickness in the middle of the night and had to abort camp. Left behind My Optimus stove and two days later it was gone. Took me awhile to get over that.

If The Coleman Stove was The Peak One I personally found it to be a poor cold weather performer. Heating paste was mandatory IMO for it to ignite in anything below zero. Even then it underperformed. I went to MSR stoves after that jalopy. It was a game changer.

 

[Ear Drum]

...
Couple of notes.
...

Sorry for the drift and long post.

Thanks for the detailed notes on the Svea stove.

 

[Ear Drum]

I had the same thought. Just - sad. I immediately recalled the discussion here on VFTT at that time, for example:

https://www.vftt.org/threads/tragic-news-in-nh.1522/
Chris had a few recent articles in The Trek: White Mountain Direttissima - The Trek

Thanks for the link to the old discussion thread here about Ken Holmes -- a very sad loss. It was informative to read about that tragedy; –22F and ice-fog sounds extremely dangerous.

The Boston.com link in that thread isn't working these days (20 years after the publication), but is preserved on Archive.org:

https://web.archive.org/web/20050312135053/https://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2004/01/16/new_hampshire_continues_to_shiver/

 

[DayTrip]

IMHO in Kate M's case, getting out of the car in the morning was a root cause.

That was my appraisal too at the time. There were numerous red flags that were very evident well before that hike began.

 

[DayTrip]

one thing to consider with Kate's case is she was training for an Everest trip, or something "bigger" than the Whites

Nobody would have been making a summit push on Everest in that weather either. The weather forecast for Washington during Mastrova's hike window was impossible. They get caught in weather like that on Everest too, and it is usually with disastrous results. But they do not go out and hike in it on purpose when they know those are the conditions. And that is exactly what Kate decided to do.

 

[mncta5]

A lot has been mentioned here about Ty Gagne's two books, "Where You'll Find Me" about Kate Matrosova's climb in 2015, and "The Last Traverse" about Fred Frederickson's and James Osborne's attempted Franconia Ridge traverse in winter 2008.

I couldn't put either of them down, once I started reading them. I feel that they were both pretty nonjudgmental toward the victims. Sure, there had to be some conjecture regarding the true thought processes of the victims, but there was enough empirical evidence to come to reasonable conclusions. In my opinion, that was not the most important part of either books.

The most riveting part of both stories are the SAR efforts. It's absolutely AWESOME to see what our SAR crews did in both situations and what they're prepared to do all of the time. (This, and the recent Emily Sotelo tragedy, were no exceptions.)

From NH Fish & Game, Air National Guard, the volunteer Pemi and Androsgoggin rescue services, and the volunteer Mountain Rescue Service, they are all absolutely committed to rescue, no matter the conditions. The logistics, coordination, and execution of rescue efforts, in the face of the worst weather, is truly remarkable!

I have to say that now, after learning more about how SAR is done, I'm better prepared for hikes. I don't want to put myself in a situation where these folks will have to put their own lives on the line to rescue.

 

[Mac]

Nobody would have been making a summit push on Everest in that weather either. The weather forecast for Washington during Mastrova's hike window was impossible. They get caught in weather like that on Everest too, and it is usually with disastrous results. But they do not go out and hike in it on purpose when they know those are the conditions. And that is exactly what Kate decided to do.

If I recall (from Ty's book), they didn't look at the Sunday morning forecast, which had changed significantly from the previous day. Not sure if this would've changed their decision, but it's possible.

 

[Dana]

I was glad I could find the suitable dead wood to build the stretcher so i did not have to cut down a live tree which is illegal. he said: "we don't enforce the law in situations like this." While I cant say the same would be true for making a fire if prohibited, I would like to think so.

Starting a fire in those conditions with dry wood is hard enough; trying to do it with live wood would probably an exercise in futility.

I've gone to a Trangia type stove for most hiking ever since my kiwi son in law turned me on to them, but it's been some years since I've done a real winter trip. If I go out in real cold weather again I'll likely bring my Svea, as it has fewer moving parts to fail than my Whisperlite. I like the carbon felt idea, I'll have to try that.

 

[rocket21]

If I recall (from Ty's book), they didn't look at the Sunday morning forecast, which had changed significantly from the previous day. Not sure if this would've changed their decision, but it's possible.

I haven't read the book, but it was known a few days in advance that the day in question would be too dangerous to do anything up high. I remember bushwhacking in the southern Belknaps that day and thinking even that was on the edge. It was one of those days that we only get every half decade or so in terms of wind plus temperature. No one should have risked above tree line that day.

 

[JoshandBaron]

I use an Emberlit Titanium. In winter, I trade my Opinel for a Mora Companion. If I'm really planning on relying on the stove in any way, I also carry a small Silky saw. <insert discussion of best folding saw for spruce traps here>

An Emberlit also takes a Trangia or Esbit cube. I used an Emberlit as my Trangia pot stand for years before moving to a different alcohol stove, decent insurance for if your alcohol runs out.

 

[peakbagger]

I made a somewhat prescient post two days before the Kate M fatality on VFTT that someone would probably get into trouble that weekend. It was combination of a forecast and it's timing along with it being a 3 day holiday. For many who live outside of day hiking range of the whites, 3 day weekends (and holiday weeks) provide enough time to drive up, get in a "big one" and drive home. Frequently plans are made and locked in several days before the date and long range forecasts for the Whites are still not hour by hour reliable in the whites. The temptation for many is to head up even though the forecast is degrading and then "give it a try" and hope the forecast was pessimistic. Having lived up here since 1987, I have seen many times and on occasion been out when predicted weather comes early. I was hiking on Wildcat one day when a front came in early, it was near calm at the base with blue skies and by the time we were on top of Wildcat the winds had cranked up and by the time we were back at RT 16 the road signs were whipping. The summit was wrapped in wind induced snow. The OBs forecast that morning did not call for the front until that evening or overnight. I got up the next morning and there was a S&R on for two climbers trapped on top of Huntington's Ravine.

 

[DayTrip]

If I recall (from Ty's book), they didn't look at the Sunday morning forecast, which had changed significantly from the previous day. Not sure if this would've changed their decision, but it's possible.

I remember that weekend weather forecast specifically and it was horrendous for days in advance. The MWOBS was actively making it clear that the weather was going to be awful for many days in advance of Kate's hike. It did in fact turn out worse than expected but it was worse than what was already supposed to be awful. I have zero sympathy for the argument that the weather was "worse than expected". Anyone even remotely familiar with NH and the Whites was well aware of the weather being awful for that time span.

 

[Grey J]

A lot has been mentioned here about Ty Gagne's two books, "Where You'll Find Me" about Kate Matrosova's climb in 2015, and "The Last Traverse" about Fred Frederickson's and James Osborne's attempted Franconia Ridge traverse in winter 2008.

I couldn't put either of them down, once I started reading them. I feel that they were both pretty nonjudgmental toward the victims. Sure, there had to be some conjecture regarding the true thought processes of the victims, but there was enough empirical evidence to come to reasonable conclusions. In my opinion, that was not the most important part of either books.

The most riveting part of both stories are the SAR efforts. It's absolutely AWESOME to see what our SAR crews did in both situations and what they're prepared to do all of the time. (This, and the recent Emily Sotelo tragedy, were no exceptions.)

From NH Fish & Game, Air National Guard, the volunteer Pemi and Androsgoggin rescue services, and the volunteer Mountain Rescue Service, they are all absolutely committed to rescue, no matter the conditions. The logistics, coordination, and execution of rescue efforts, in the face of the worst weather, is truly remarkable!

I have to say that now, after learning more about how SAR is done, I'm better prepared for hikes. I don't want to put myself in a situation where these folks will have to put their own lives on the line to rescue.

Especially the helicopter pilot who was able to hold it in a steady hover in ridiculously strong winds. That was amazing.

 

[sierra]

I remember that weekend weather forecast specifically and it was horrendous for days in advance. The MWOBS was actively making it clear that the weather was going to be awful for many days in advance of Kate's hike. It did in fact turn out worse than expected but it was worse than what was already supposed to be awful. I have zero sympathy for the argument that the weather was "worse than expected". Anyone even remotely familiar with NH and the Whites was well aware of the weather being awful for that time span.

I have very good re-call and I also hike every week. I specifically remember taking that weekend off from the Whites due to the higher summits forecast.

 

[NH2112]

I’m trying out a lighter pack for this weekend, I’m down to 33lb. The stove, fuel, pot, and food seem to be the heaviest group, but I like having 1 day’s food. Even if I cut back I doubt I’ll save more than a pound. Maybe I’ll leave the 1l insulated bottle home and use my 1l plastic bottle if I want to make cocoa. I swapped the GG Nimbus Trace Access 70 for an Osprey Atmos 50 AG, Ibis 0F for a Sierra Designs Mobile Mummy 800 and the Marmot Hammer for an SMD Deschutes tarp. No Marmot Greenland parka, but I do have my EMS Feather Pack. Temps are forecast to drop to the upper teens Saturday night, my sleeping bag has a 27F comfort rating but with the Xtherm I might be warm at lower temps. I can always put on my down pants and jacket, there’s plenty of room in the bag.

Change #17, I re-packed everything into my Crown2 60, dropped the thermos, and am down to 28lb. It carries more comfortably than the Osprey, and as a bonus I can actually open the hip belt pocket zippers one-handed!

 

[John H Swanson]

Starting a fire in those conditions with dry wood is hard enough; trying to do it with live wood would probably an exercise in futility.

I heard a story from someone who was present at an Adirondack ranger demo. He (the ranger) was pitching the utility of having an ax. He chops down a small conifer and uses some tinder to light the bows and then the small branches quickly creating a small and very smoky fire with the tree. The observers were all shocked at the combustibility of live conifer and the fact that a fire was possible.

Now I realize creating a fire in windy conditions is a challenge and most likely futile. The effort would be better spent on a snow shelter. I recall a hiker that was lost high on the shoulder of Mt Marcy and survived the night in a show shelter with day pack gear. Then he met his rescuers as he walked out in the morning.

 

[John H Swanson]

I’m trying out a lighter pack for this weekend, I’m down to 33lb. The stove, fuel, pot, and food seem to be the heaviest group, but I like having 1 day’s food. Even if I cut back I doubt I’ll save more than a pound. Maybe I’ll leave the 1l insulated bottle home and use my 1l plastic bottle if I want to make cocoa. I swapped the GG Nimbus Trace Access 70 for an Osprey Atmos 50 AG, Ibis 0F for a Sierra Designs Mobile Mummy 800 and the Marmot Hammer for an SMD Deschutes tarp. No Marmot Greenland parka, but I do have my EMS Feather Pack. Temps are forecast to drop to the upper teens Saturday night, my sleeping bag has a 27F comfort rating but with the Xtherm I might be warm at lower temps. I can always put on my down pants and jacket, there’s plenty of room in the bag.

Change #17, I re-packed everything into my Crown2 60, dropped the thermos, and am down to 28lb. It carries more comfortably than the Osprey, and as a bonus I can actually open the hip belt pocket zippers one-handed!

does that weight include wearing traction aid and carrying snowshoes on the pack? or wearing showshoes and carrying the traction aid?

 

[NH2112]

does that weight include wearing traction aid and carrying snowshoes on the pack? or wearing showshoes and carrying the traction aid?

Wearing snowshoes, I don’t bring traction aids because I don’t go anywhere near trails.

 

[dug]

Nobody would have been making a summit push on Everest in that weather either. The weather forecast for Washington during Mastrova's hike window was impossible. They get caught in weather like that on Everest too, and it is usually with disastrous results. But they do not go out and hike in it on purpose when they know those are the conditions. And that is exactly what Kate decided to do.

Sure they would, and its exactly why I think she did what she did. Not defending her, but am willing to understand her line of thinking.