Fatality on Mt Washington in Huntingtons Ravine

[jniehof]

Buckles should be on the outsideof your foot with any Crampons, gaiters or snowshoes. Buckles on the inside can trip you. The inside of your feet and legs should be smooth and free of catches

I have been of that theory. I took a glacier travel class a few weeks ago and the (deeply experienced) instructors suggested I swap on my crampons, based on the theory that if the straps are on the outside they can catch on the environment.

The comments in the article also seemed to be opposed to straps that run heel-toe bail-heel instead of just heel-ankle-heel (the latter seeming more common on newer step-in crampons.)

 

[skiguy]

Definitely a joke - I used an emjoi, and was wearing my helmet It's a satirical joke that only makes sense if one reads the full article. Bill sounds like a character I'd enjoy hanging out with, even if we have different ways of talking about fatalities. I generally find it in poor taste to pile on to someone who's already been as severely punished/can't learn anything themselves (because they've perished). Saying 'Kate shouldn't have been up there' is pointless, because she was, but using her story as an example for others to consider their plans and bailout options, and dependency on a beacon, that's a valid lesson for the rest of us. Bill left a talk with the author early because he disagreed with him for not blaming the victim (although in fairness, Bill did still praise the book).

If my joke fails, it's because the people I've insinuated he attacked aren't playing dead - which is a insensitive when stated so bluntly - but hopefully softened by my contention that these people have paid a high price for their mistakes and that continuing to flagellate them serves no obvious purpose in my mind.

IMO you are exuding a double standard. It's not OK that someone is attacking someone else but it's OK for you to attack someone. Humorous or not it's an attack you made on an individual. I hope you were actually there and observed the event rather than extrapolating your insight on a written article.

 

[JoshandBaron]

I wonder where the idea that this board doesn't have a sense of humor comes from...

 

[peakbagger]

Its not necessarily the board as much as the specific members

 

[David Metsky]

Moderator Hat
Sounds like we've achieved a truce, or at least a detente. Please avoid attacking individual posters when disagreeing with a post.

 

[Salty]

Moderator Hat
Sounds like we've achieved a truce, or at least a detente. Please avoid attacking individual posters when disagreeing with a post.

Oh, pooh. I was going to attack this poster.

Sorry, just adding some comedic relief.

 

[Red Oak]

I don't mind taking some of the responsibility For humor issues on this board...

 

[ChrisB]

I personally do not find this funny. I have known Mr. Aughton for over 30 years and he is a well respected member of the climbing community.

That quote makes Aughton sound like a grumpy old man. He could have been a bit more empathetic to the poor kid.

Sheesh!

cb

 

[TCD]

Aughton may have sounded a little grumpy. But I think a mature voice like his is necessary, pointing out that most things that happen are the result of our own decision making. Actually, we need to hear more of that, if only to balance out the flood of voices that say "everything that happens must be someone else's fault."

 

[skiguy]

Aughton may have sounded a little grumpy. But I think a mature voice like his is necessary, pointing out that most things that happen are the result of our own decision making. Actually, we need to hear more of that, if only to balance out the flood of voices that say "everything that happens must be someone else's fault."

I agree. We do need to hear more of it. IMO Aughton is being a realist.

 

[Tom_Murphy]

Aughton claims to not understand how people could make bad choices (from the article), but I bet he has a story about getting away with a poor choice. Perhaps his exasperation is directed more at humanity than anyone in particular? I don't know - but I do know that waiting for a dead person to accept responsibility is not a good use of time.

Likewise, Gagne, who is a risk assessment manager as well as a writer, told the Sun that he was not judging the decision-making that led to Matrosova's death — his goal was to present an accurate account of the ordeal, trying to pay tribute to her adventurous spirit while telling her story,

“It’s not judging someone, it’s common sense. She should not have been out there in those conditions. And Ty wouldn’t say that!” an exasperated Aughton told the Sun, adding he nonetheless appreciates the accurate and compelling tale told in the book.

I literally laughed out loud reading your joke about Mr. Aughton leaving the presentation because Mr Gagne wouldn't say what he wanted to hear. I am grateful you and skiguy are cut from a different bolt of cloth and are both able withstand a healthy exchange of ideas.

I think you misrepresent Mr. Aughton here. He isn't asking for a dead person to accept responsibility. He believes it does everyone a disservice to shy away from stating Ms. Matrosova shouldn't attempted that hike given the weather forecast.

My Dad uses a figurative expression, that has fallen out of favor, which basically means: One tells the truth regarding the nature of the thing in question, speaking frankly and directly about it, even if it is considered coarse, impolite, or unpleasant.

I imagine Mr. Aughton feels the same way.

 

[skiguy]

Its not necessarily the board as much as the specific members

I never did find Monty Python that funny. Only kidding.

 

[sierra]

This is just my opinion. I think TY left out the fact that she shouldn't have been up there for two reasons. One, to anyone with an ounce of mountain experience already knows that and two, it had nothing to do with the core of his presentation. The old saying, " Beating a dead horse" comes to mind.

 

[Raven]

This is just my opinion. I think TY left out the fact that she shouldn't have been up there for two reasons. One, to anyone with an ounce of mountain experience already knows that and two, it had nothing to do with the core of his presentation. The old saying, " Beating a dead horse" comes to mind.

I'll respectfully add a third option and I agree with these two.

Mr. Gagne skillfully walked a very delicate line in writing that book. He had the blessing of Kate's surviving husband who is still grieving I'm sure. He was not only wise to avoid judgment, he showed compassion in leaving it off the table.

 

[sierra]

I'll respectfully add a third option and I agree with these two.

Mr. Gagne skillfully walked a very delicate line in writing that book. He had the blessing of Kate's surviving husband who is still grieving I'm sure. He was not only wise to avoid judgment, he showed compassion in leaving it off the table.

That is a very good point.

 

[egilbe]

I'll respectfully add a third option and I agree with these two.

Mr. Gagne skillfully walked a very delicate line in writing that book. He had the blessing of Kate's surviving husband who is still grieving I'm sure. He was not only wise to avoid judgment, he showed compassion in leaving it off the table.

He did a very good job of explaining why she went on that day, and once hypothermia set in, why she continued. It wasn't in her nature to back down from a challenge and once her mental faculties we're impaired, it was her nature to continue no matter what. I was one of the ones on White blazes criticizing her decision making. I guess with a better understanding I'm less critical than I once was.

 

[sierra]

He did a very good job of explaining why she went on that day, and once hypothermia set in, why she continued. It wasn't in her nature to back down from a challenge and once her mental faculties we're impaired, it was her nature to continue no matter what. I was one of the ones on White blazes criticizing her decision making. I guess with a better understanding I'm less critical than I once was.

I think Ty did an outstanding job in his book, explaining why she might not have turned around. My take away was that while she was a good climber, she was not seasoned in decision making largely due to her history utilizing guides, who basically decide everything. Granted, you can learn a lot following a guide, but not all do, some are content to just climb and relinquish all thoughts and decisions. Her background gave her two things, a skillset to climb tougher routes and a high degree of confidence. The one ingredient that was missing, risk assessment, perhaps the most important skill a mountaineer can possess.