First test of cog railway Diesel

vftt.org

Help Support vftt.org:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Ed'n Lauky

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
1,802
Reaction score
168
Location
Blairsville GA ......... Avatar-- On top of S
The first test of the new cog railway diesel was a big success. This 'from the ground up' project is nearing completion. There will be a cowling when the train is finally ready for the public. :p
DieselonRockPile.jpg
 
I'll take the occasional puff when a diesel is revved over the enormous coal plume happily. I'm glad this is really happening and wasn't just a vapor project*.




*In the software industry, vaporware is a product that's announced but never actually ships.
 
Cath said:
Now if they will just do the conversion to Biodiesel :cool:

I'm not sure if I could handle being on a Presie hike and smelling french fries!
 
Frenchfry sales at the summit will skyrocket!! :)

Reminds me of those waffle stands at ski areas that smell soooo good it lures you right in.

Good riddance to the black smoke plume visible for miles around.
 
Last edited:
NHPR did a story this morning on biodiesel and other so-called green fuels and how they are receiving less attention of late, and are $1 or more per gallon more expensive, and may not be "as green as originally thought", when you consider everything that goes into producing them.

I'm not saying it is not a green alternative. Just to be careful about marketing claims of being green. You know, like a certain well-known fast food joint and it's McLobster sandwich which is "Made with 100% real lobster" (translation: They mixed the mayo / faux lobster fish mix with a lobster claw shell.) As green becomes even more popular, I'm sure that the actual claims made will have to be substantiated as is the case with more mature technologies.

Tim
 
I believe all diesels are "biodiesel" compatible...

Or at least, all modern, low-sulphur compatible engines. Blended biodiesel is virtually interchangeable with petrodiesel (and typically blended with petrodiesel in varying amounts). The caveat here is, like ethanol, there are solvents present in biodiesel that can degrade rubber parts (hoses and the like) over time if they're not designed for biodiesel use. This is no different than "flex-fuel" vehicles designed to burn E85 ethanol.

The conversion part comes in when you want to burn straight vegetable oil, or waste oil (french fry grease). My understanding is you need to convert cars for burning grease principally because straight vegetable oil has a higher viscosity (especially when cold) and lacks the stabilizers, solvents, and other additives that fuel oils include to keep things running smoothly. I think the earliest grease-car conversions had small heaters to keep the fuel from coagulating, and, if I remember right, started on regular diesel then switched over to waste oil.

The supposed advantage of biofuels is pretty simple: rather than releasing carbon into the atmosphere that has been sequestered (in the form of rotting prehistoric vegetation) thousands of feet underground, you have a "carbon-neutral" cycle of plant takes in carbon, plant grows, plant is harvested, plant is processed into oil, oil is burned, carbon is released, plant grows... That's the theory, though of course, a certain amount of energy goes into the process, too (not to mention other critical side-effects, like competing for edible crops).

In terms of the relative "green-ness" of biodiesel -- I don't think it's quite as controversial as corn-based ethanol (yet, anyway). There are a bunch of variables that suggest corn-based ethanol (vs. cane-based, or beet-based) not an efficient or essentially safer trade-off for petrofuels -- it requires nearly as much (or maybe more) petroleum to produce (between farming, fertilization, etc.), it "competes" for food stocks and is driving up commodities prices world-wide, and total greenhouse emissions from ethanol use may in fact be higher.

The hew and cry about Biodiesel, so far at least, hasn't been as loud -- but that may just be because in the US, we have a relatively small percentage of diesel passenger vehicles. The big points of contention are around (no surprise) how the biofuel crops are raised -- especially in Third-world locales, where deforestation has become an increasing problem, and pesticides used for fuel-stocks are polluting water supplies. Unalloyed biodiesel is also higher in oxides of nitrogen, though that can be managed with catalysts, I guess. So nothing is free... Keep your fingers crossed for the nascent field of growing algae as a fuelstock.
 
I hope these efforts by the Cog will not only reduce carbon emmisions but will also cut back on the mooning as well, maybe a little flying grease will be a deterrent. :eek:
 
Diesel gets my vote!!

I heartily endorse Diesel for the cog! I'd feel much better about the cog RR if it were diesel driven. I too have witnessed the ugly smoke that tends to collect around the summit ridge in certain types of weather conditions. I know it's a piece of our historic heritage, but frankly it detracts too much from the mountain/sky environment that is the true reason for being there. If I recall correctly, only one diesel will still only initially to check out concept and gauge public acceptance.

Having just read about the terrible accident on the cog in Not Without Peril, I have to guess the deisels will offer much higher level of safety than continuing to run such ancient steam engines. They aren't getting any younger! As sure as the sun rises in the morning, accidents can and will happen. It's only a matter of time. Fatigue cracks can develop anywhere and in unexpected places in that old metal after so much running time. It's one thing to have a mechanical failure on normal grades found in most steam RR museums, but totally another on steep grades found on the cog.
 
The answer is pretty much YES to all your comments. There is only one Diesel for the moment,(not counting the snow blower) there no doubt will be more. There is state of the art technology inside the cab of the engine and it is much safer. It is among other things capable of breaking for the wagon coming down, something that the steam engine does not do. The wagon has its own breaks. It is very quiet inside the cab and there is a weather station. It would be possible for one of the TV channels or radio stations to broadcast the weather while on the way up or down. I understand that inside the steam engine nothing could be heard but the sound of the engine.
 
The french fry oil smell comes from veggie oil, which you can convert a regular diesel engine to with some simplicity. There are kits that can be bought and some homemade plans online, but there are drawbacks. The gaskets and seals don't like the SVO systems (straight vegetable oil, aka 'greasel conversions'), so the engines need to be rebuilt at a higher interval. The SVO systems do need to be heated or the engines can gel. I doubt they'll be running SVO in the cog engine though.

Biodiesel doesn't have the same smell as the SVO systems, but it also doesn't have the corrosive properties. It does, however, have more lubricity than the ULSD (ultra-low-sulphur-diesel, 15 ppm) that is available over the road today. A 2% mix of biodiesel has been shown to provide enough lubricity to offset todays 'dry' diesel.

Biodiesel can come in varying grades, from B5 to B100 (5% to 100% biodiesel to regular diesel). If they do run a mix, I hope it's clean, off-road diesel isn't refined to the same capacity and typically has 3,000 ppm of sulphur, so it's very dirty.

Diesel has more BTU's associated with it, which is one of the main reasons diesel cars get better mileage and diesel trucks produce more power than their gas counterparts.

That being said, I love my diesel car...and the 50 mpg is especially sweet!
 
Last edited:
Hey! There's actually two Diesel powered cog engines!

There's more than one form of combustion one can use to boil water. Reading this thread inspired me to visit Cog website to read more about the diesel where I came across some pictures and comments indicating #9 coal-fired engine has been converted to run on diesel. It features pictures of #9 diesel fired antique engine going up the mountain with much smaller and whiter exhaust plume. Most people aren't aware that oil burning guns can be installed in the existing coal-fired boilers to convert over to oil or diesel liquid fuel. It's done all the time. The exterior of the pressure vessel doesn't look any different to the casual observer. Converting existing engines over to oil burners honors the historical aspect, but maintains higher level of environmental quality. In terms of bottom-line total emissions though, nothing will beat a modern diesel engine for this application. I've been licensed mechanical engineer for close to 30 yrs so I know something of what I'm talking about.

Cog RR Diesel Power boiler
 
We saw it a couple of weeks ago - it's very quiet, very fast, no smoke, electric horn - just not the same :(

In talking to the engineers we were told there are 2 more currently being built.

IMG_2444.jpg


IMG_2455.jpg
 
bobandgeri said:
We saw it a couple of weeks ago - it's very quiet, very fast, no smoke, electric horn - just not the same :(

It's my understanding that the Diesel could go up much faster, but for the sake of the rails they have limited the speed both up and down to the speed that is being used by the steam engines going down. :)
 
We took my wife's parents up the Cog (old coal engine, which was just what they wanted) two weeks ago. I asked the brakeperson on our train how much coal it takes to power one of the old engines up the mountain. She said, "About a ton." I asked how much diesel the new engine required for the same run. She said, "About 8 gallons."

In economic terms, that puts a run on coal at about $250, versus about $50 for biodiesel. I'll leave it to someone who's better at math to calculate the reduction in environmental impact -- but in terms of carbon output, etc., it has to be huge. My in-laws were thrilled with the entire trip -- right down to the coal-cinders blowing in the window -- and the nostalgia of it certainly is worth something in the world. That said, it's hard to say the new engines aren't a big win.
 
DrewKnight said:
In economic terms, that puts a run on coal at about $250, versus about $50 for biodiesel.

Bet'cha that ticket prices stay right where they are!
 
Top