FYI: Northern Pass High Voltage Transmission Project

[Remix]

FWIW, Hydro Quebec is a name for a Canadian governmental agency, not a corporation that takes private investment and turns it into a profit.

 

[LRiz]

http://www.concordmonitor.com/article/241984/hydro-claims-draw-in-senators

 

[RoySwkr]

well-known White Mtn geographer has negative view of project

http://www.concordmonitor.com/article/255871/in-the-path-of-northern-pass

The paper version also attributed someone else's comments to him, we'll see how long it takes to fix online

 

[cooperhill]

Articles from today's Union Leader paper edition (not available online).

"Proposed Northern Pass route crosses Appalachian Trail."

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0BwXdjre47hwWYjYxY2Y1MWMtOGNiMy00MjM0LWJiN2ItM2NlYjNjOGEzMDgw&hl=en_US

"Northern Pass may use [National] Forest."
Page 1:
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0BwXdjre47hwWNTI3YTU3M2MtOGI3My00MGQzLWJhYzktNWY1ODBjMzZjOGIx&hl=en_US

Page 2:
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0BwXdjre47hwWYzczZDUyNWYtZDk1Yy00ZjQ1LTk0NWUtNTlhMjhmZjNmZDhi&hl=en_US

 

[Tobit]

Articles from today's Union Leader paper edition (not available online).

Proposed Northern Pass route crosses AT.

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0BwXdjre47hwWYjYxY2Y1MWMtOGNiMy00MjM0LWJiN2ItM2NlYjNjOGEzMDgw&hl=en_US

I can't get the above link to work but the others are fine.

 

[cooperhill]

I can't get the above link to work but the others are fine.

Thanks. Fixed.

 

[MichaelJ]

Something isn't right in that article. If the proposed line follows the existing right-of-way, it does not cross the AT between North and South Kinsman, but crosses the AT near Eliza Brook Shelter (as they also mention).

I found it rather jarring to come across that power line cut when doing that hike; however, it was also a remarkable viewpoint, as it allowed looking down towards the Gordon Pond area, which is a vast tract with no trails and no roads, nothing at all except for that powerline cut. It would also be horrifying if it were widened and/or had towers twice as high as the current ones.

 

[adamiata]

The line goes up towards Kinsman Ridge, where it crosses the nation's famed Appalachian Trail between North and South Kinsman.

Say WHAT, now?

 

[RoySwkr]

Proposed Northern Pass route crosses AT.

Of course it does, unless it loops around Katahdin

The existing powerline corridor was considered as a possible route for I-93 instead of Franconia Notch, but rejected. I snowshoed it at that time (to avoid issues with the bog) but lacking graduate training in ecology I can't say what rare species were present - it looked a lot like the rest of the Forest.

Northern Pass may use National Forest.

Wonder what Molly will say to that

 

[el-bagr]

For those following the Northern Pass project, the developers announced yesterday that they are moving the transmission lines' start-up date back a year to 2016, to allow them time to find a new route from Groveton north to the Canadian border.

 

[peakbagger]

I suspect they will coalign it with the PNGTS gas line right of way (which I believe is privately owned) and then upgrade the existing right of way for the COOS loop from Groveton to Whitefield. There will still be ruckus in Easton and Franconia but it will reduce the backlash in the north country.

 

[Waumbek]

I suspect they will coalign it with the PNGTS gas line right of way (which I believe is privately owned) and then upgrade the existing right of way for the COOS loop from Groveton to Whitefield. There will still be ruckus in Easton and Franconia but it will reduce the backlash in the north country.

The PNGTS ROW in NH is 50' wide, with the current pipeline buried on a 15' centerline, leaving room for a second pipeline on the rest of the easement. So, two questions/observations on this scenario follow. First, there isn't enough room for DC transmission towers on the PNGTS ROW; second, PNGTS would not want to compromise its own ability to add a second line on the unused 35' later on.

Putting the transmission line adjacent to but outside the PNGTS corridor involves getting all the easement deeds anew from Pittsburg to Groveton plus it might involve getting new easements adjacent to the current PSNH ones from Groveton to Whitefield on that segment of the Coos loop.

Also, gas and electricity don't mix well. PNGTS puts something into the otherwise odorless gas so that it is detectable if it leaks .....

Co-alignment doesn't seem possible or desirable. Am I missing something here?

 

[peakbagger]

The coalignment of the Northern Pass ROW with the existing PSNH right of way from Groveton down to Whitefield is a potential strategic decision which brings in another big player, another large wind farm. This farm (160 MW?) north of the Granite Reliable Power farm currently being built was tabled due to lack of capacity on the "Coos loop" power transmission line and the biomass project in Berlin may have some issues with exporting their output during unusual conditions. The state has already spent time and money coming up with scenarios to upgrade this loop and there is significant support in the region. Upgrading the western portion of the loop would allow the new wind farm (and possibly others to be built) and may provide cover for the Northern Pass.

I dont believe that there are unsurmoutable issues with having a gas pipeline in the ground and DC voltage in above ground on towers in the same right of way. The odorant used for gas lines is mercaptain, which is very similiar to skunk odor. They are detectable at very low concentration but wouldnt be an issue. Perhaps someone with high voltage electrical background could comment if DC transmission lines would induce a voltage in the gas line? I believe that can be a issue with AC lines but not sure on DC.

I agree the ROW would most likely have to be expanded but generally is easier to expand one than it is to create a new one.

 

[Vermonster]

...This farm (160 MW?) north of the Granite Reliable Power farm currently being built was tabled due to lack of capacity on the "Coos loop" ...

The landowner and "farm" developer clearly think this is still a possibility as they have been continuing to place meteorological test towers north of Dixville. There is a very large test tower currently in place near Crystal Mountain (about 4 miles northeast of Coleman State Park). A previous tower was placed off the 4-Mile Brook Rd near the border of Dix's Grant and Second College Grant.

VT

 

[RoySwkr]

I dont believe that there are unsurmoutable issues with having a gas pipeline in the ground and DC voltage in above ground on towers in the same right of way. The odorant used for gas lines is mercaptain, which is very similiar to skunk odor.

Would you want a gas leak next to a crackling power line? No way would I grant an easement, and under eminent domain I would seek a multi-million bond for each property to cover such risk.

 

[Dave Bear]

Not in favor of Northern Pass as propsed but also worthy of mentioning is that part of the existing supply comes from wood burning plants. They can burn up to about a truckload of wood chips in an hour and have promoted some rather reckless clear-cutting.

Earlier discussion in this thread referenced ponding on hydro facilities as "brown power" and not allowed in MA. I worked at a paper mill in MA where we had a 28 foot head on two 600 kw generators that were actually built in the early 1920's. We had to stay within a minimum flow rate, which I believe was 60cfs. We would pond every night cutting our generation back and generate heavier during the day. Our watershed to the dam was over 430 square miles and it was hard to do anything that would create rapid change in the level of the pond. Nature itself had a much bigger hand in that with both rain and drought. We did do our part to try to keep the level consistent when the fish were spawning in the shallows. When you work closely with a resource like a river you learn to appreciate and understand it better and the cause and affect of actions.

Many of these small hydro facilities exist but have fallen into disrepair and are behind the times on efficiency. When you sell to the grid what you sell is at a very poor price and trends were always in their favor. When steps were taken to try to break some of the monopolies that control the power market we immediately saw emphasis move from cost of generation to cost of transmission. In other words they knew that other generators would need to pay for the use of their existing transmission system to sell to their customers so they forced higher costs onto smaller generators. I worked next to a low pressure gas powered generating plant and they had to fight a constant bid war to sell to the grid sometimes at a loss in order to keep staff employed. The time of operation blocks also became smaller so that the grid made out by trimming their costs and the small generators became more inefficient by having to power up and power down costantly if they did not bid their sale prices low enough. No matter how comforting the public service ads appear all big business is driven by the dirty dollar, period! If they build heavy lines for high demand, they will extend them to where ever they can and as far south as necessary to reach or encourage a demand. In order to create demand they will sell quantity at a lower price until industry in the areas supported grow to meet what they consider efficient use of their lines.

Watched the youtube video, will the Northern Pass lines be white or are they going to be camo so we don't see them?

 

[peakbagger]

There already is a high voltage electrical transmission line immediately adjacent to a high pressure gas line in Northern NH, it runs from roughly Milan to Gorham with a big jog on the east side of the river. I dont know what the liability coverage is.

If someone want to check out the status of a power project in New England (like a wind farm) , here is the link

http://www.iso-ne.com/genrtion_resrcs/nwgen_inter/status/index.html

 

[RoySwkr]

but NP loses one...

but the SPNHF has an agreement to keep NP off The Balsams, if they raise the money
http://www.concordmonitor.com/article/297010/balsams-sold-to-colebrook-businessmen

 

[Cath]

Nice article in the Littleton Courier ~
http://newhampshirelakesandmountains.com/pdf/LIT.2012.01.11.pdf

 

[una_dogger]

Nice article in the Littleton Courier ~
http://newhampshirelakesandmountains.com/pdf/LIT.2012.01.11.pdf

Go, LRiz, go!