Gear recommendations?

[TomD]

After a couple of days at Badger Pass in bad weather, I need some new gear and am looking for suggestions. Here's my list:

1. Gloves/Mitts -something absolutely waterproof. I've looked at BD Mercury Mitts and their gloves; any other recommendations? I'd like to be able to wear my OR liners or my little wool gloves in them.

2. Fleece jacket-I have a lightweight one that is fine, but I'd like a little heavier one-maybe one of the Patagonia retro hoodies? I'd be using it for hiking and a bit of cross-country skiing and wearing it either alone or under an REI Element rain jacket if the weather turns bad.

3. Super lightweight waterproof day pack I can stuff into a pocket-maybe a Dana Kompressor or something similar-just for poking around with a few essentials in it after setting up camp, not climbing.

4. Anyone tried Sealskinz gloves? They are supposed to be waterproof-REI has them.

I've got some questions about cross-country skiing too, but I'll save those for later.
Thanks.

 

[WildPeaks]

Tom

I'll anwer the glove question.
Nothing I know is absolutely waterproof! If it's coated too tightly, your hands will "rot" from the inside/out from sweat.
Even waterproof/breathable are no guarantee. One of my Goretex jackets lost it's water repellancy on the outer shell once and it was a heavy wet snow all day. The shell got saturated which forced the sweat to turn around, if you will, because it couldn't get out through the shell part, thus wetting me. They called it "wetting out" at the store and gave me a product to wash it in, to restore the repellancy.
Your best bet is to have 2 shells, (waterproof/breathable with taped seams), 2 gloves, (1 liner & 1 heavier poly type), & 2 mitts of your choice, All that will fit inside the shells. Then they can be used alone or combine 2 - 3 of them, for whatever the conditions are.
But that's just what I was taught. I'm sure others have systems they use that are differrent than mine.

 

[Tom Rankin]

Tom I'll anwer the glove question. Nothing I know is absolutely waterproof!

I'll 2nd that! I usually bring a lot of gloves with me in the Winter. Keeping your hands dry (and the rest of you as well) is essential for Winter hiking.

 

[jfb]

As far as waterproof gloves go, I don't bother anymore because they'll get wet from the inside and then won't dry. Instead, I found gloves that keep my hands warm when wet (they also make a similar mitten): http://www.thesockcompany.com/foxrivthrela.html

 

[Jkrew81]

Gloves: Marmot Work Gloves. Not waterproof, but very wonderful in every other way.

Fleece: Patagonia R1. Provides the prefect amount of insulation while moving. Under a waterproof or wind resistant jkt, it is very comfortable. I wear this as my only layer under a windshell for winter running.

Waterproof Daypack: Never seen one. I have a Arc Teryx Bora 50 which is damn near close. Take a look at the smaller Bora 35. It is expensive but will last for a long time.

 

[percious]

The BD mercury Mitts are anything but waterproof. On my latest adventure I donned them hoping to keep my hands dry while navigating the slush covered blowdown. The leather soaked through, and wet hands followed.

OR used to make goretex gloves with rubber palms. If you can find an old pair of these, they are probably your best bet.

-percious

 

[DougPaul]

1. Gloves/Mitts -something absolutely waterproof. I've looked at BD Mercury Mitts and their gloves; any other recommendations? I'd like to be able to wear my OR liners or my little wool gloves in them.

As others have noted, gloves/mittens will become wet from the inside. Carry spares and dry the wet ones by stuffing them down your shirt. I use windblock fleece gloves or wool or fleece mitten liners and shells.

When I used to ice climb, I just used Daschstein (heavy boiled wool) mittens. Warm even when wet. (Water sometimes flows down the ice face and into your mittens...)

2. Fleece jacket-I have a lightweight one that is fine, but I'd like a little heavier one-maybe one of the Patagonia retro hoodies? I'd be using it for hiking and a bit of cross-country skiing and wearing it either alone or under an REI Element rain jacket if the weather turns bad.

I carry 2 200wt fleece jackets and a 100wt fleece vest. Lots of versatility. A vest and a jacket can make a nice combo.

I, personally, don't like hoods--they restrict movement and tend to interfere with vision and hearing. I'd rather wear a hat or a balaclava. (I have hoods on my shells and down jackets. Used only when necessary.)

3. Super lightweight waterproof day pack I can stuff into a pocket-maybe a Dana Kompressor or something similar-just for poking around with a few essentials in it after setting up camp, not climbing.

Packs (and stuff sacks) leak. (tension opens the seams, abrasion wears the coating, etc) Line your pack/stuff sacks with plastic bags. A rain cover might not hurt if it is raining.

4. Anyone tried Sealskinz gloves? They are supposed to be waterproof-REI has them.

Not me. See 1.

Doug

 

[jfb]

OR used to make goretex gloves with rubber palms. If you can find an old pair of these, they are probably your best bet.

-percious

I have a pair of the OR Mt. Baker shells that are made like that. Unfortunately, they are quite uncomfortable. Imagine having a mitten made from two pieces of cardboard, taped along the edges.

 

[dave.m]

After a couple of days at Badger Pass in bad weather, I need some new gear and am looking for suggestions. Here's my list:
(snip....)
2. Fleece jacket-I have a lightweight one that is fine, but I'd like a little heavier one-maybe one of the Patagonia retro hoodies? I'd be using it for hiking and a bit of cross-country skiing and wearing it either alone or under an REI Element rain jacket if the weather turns bad.
(snip...)
I've got some questions about cross-country skiing too, but I'll save those for later.

Badger Pass as in Yosemite? You dog, you.

Regarding the fleece jacket question, I'd like to hear more from you on why and what you want? For nordic backcountry skiing, I've become a big fan of something light and shelled while moving and something big, fat and warm when resting. Generally, I ski in an expedition weight (100) top under a very light nylon shell with pitzips. This works great so long as I'm moving. On really, really cold days, I use an old Patagonia Glissade (no longer made) which is 1/4" pile under a light nylon shell. I will hopefully get pit zips added to that this year. But it has to be pretty cold for the Glissade, otherwise I over heat.

For resting, I like Primaloft jackets. I have 2. One is a thick Belay Jacket which goes in the deep winter. The other is a lighter sweater type jacket. The sweater weight coat packs smaller than pile and is much warmer. I also have a down jacket that gets used when I know that conditions will be dry. My beef with pile is that is so darned bulky. 1/2" pile is for street wear only, imo. 1/4" is good for wet/cold active use and is a better replacement for 300 weight fleece, imo.

Regarding the xc skiing holler away man!
Here is a starting point.
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/dirtbag.html

I've updated some of my pages. Constructive feedback always welcome.

 

[TomD]

Thanks

Thanks for the replies everyone (and those of you to follow). I'm now thinking I'll get a big pair of Goretex (or something like that) shells and stuff my liners in them as suggested.

Now I'm wondering if spraying my ski mitts with a DWR would be helpful-they aren't breatheable/waterproof anyway so I'm not worried about ruining them.

 

[David Metsky]

You won't ruin them, but you won't make them waterproof either. As others have said, expect your gloves/mitts to get wet and bring backup pairs.

-dave-

 

[Bluethroatedone]

I find the best bet for gloves is to throw 5-6 pairs in the pack:

1. Integrated, insulated glove. Half the time that's all I need
2.,3. Two piece: removable Fleece liner, waterproof outer shell (useful as it allows you to take off outside when you get hot, for deterity etc.)
4. a light pair of fleece gloves. If 2 gets wet can just change the liner
5. Very thin EMS liner gloves (Always in my pocket, weighs nothing, option of last resort or perfect if its not too cold)

Oh and 6. Down Mittens when mountaineering.

I know this sounds like overkill but I find that these weight very little and I NEVER worry about wet hands.

I am not one of the Go-Lite people...I'll throw an extra layer in the pack anyday where there is a chance I may have to spend the night outside.

 

[TomD]

Gloves/Mitts

Bluethroatedone-Is your #2/3 combo a glove with a removable liner or a mitt?

 

[Johnnycakes]

Percious,

I have the Black Diamond Mercury mitts and found that if I treat the leather with a rub in DWR treatment, I get a significantly more weatherproof glove. I too was disappointed the first time I used the Mercury mitts, but am quite happy with them after this "fix."

John

 

[KevCon223]

I use this when its really cold, and so far, so good. A bit pricey, but worth it.

 

[Bluethroatedone]

Tom,

Glove. While Mittens are warmer I tend to prefer the dexterity of gloves for poles/ice axe. (Holding an ice axe with mittens on is a major pain)

 

[TomD]

Skiing, Gloves, etc.

I missed out on a pair of OR Cascade gloves on ebay-they looked like what I'm looking for-Goretex with big gauntlet-I guess they are an older glove, but the design looked good.

Dave-thanks, I have looked at your site several times-excellent info. My questions are pretty basic- I have yet to actually get on a pair of cross-country skis, so please excuse my total ignorance.

I know there are basically three types of cross-country skis: track skis-the really skinny ones-for classic or skating; off track skis-the slightly fatter ones with either a partial metal edge or full metal edge and the really fat ones. I'm not talking about AT/Randonee or Tele-just CC.

All I would want is something for mostly groomed terrain-roads for example, plus the ability to go off track a bit on rolling terrain-no gonzo downhill stuff. I can downhill ski at a beginner level-parallel turns some of the time, depending on the day, so I understand the concept of edging, etc.

What I have gleaned so far is that something like an Atomic Selkirk, Alpina or Karhu might be what I want, with a 3 pin binding and high leather boot-I have a suspect ankle, so I'm willing to sacrifice agility for support.

Does this sound reasonable for a beginner who won't be doing much more than what I've said? All I want to be able to do is ski into a camping area instead of snowshoe so I would be carrying a pack. I'll take a few lessons so I have at least some idea as to what I'm doing.

Big question-how do you turn these things? With a tele type turn? Nothing I've seen on the web makes that clear. I've watched the Tele Tom videos on telemarktips.com, but he's using real tele gear.

For example-Glacier Point Road at Badger Pass-no real need to turn the skis as in downhilling since the turns are very gentle, but off track, being able to avoid a tree would seem like a necessary skill.

 

[Tuggy]

Sealskin gloves

I have a pair of these that I like but once I warm up I take em off or they will get wet from the inside and are slow to dry. Liners are great to carry and dry fast and often are all you need once you've warmed up unless it is really cold outside or you're having to use your hand to climb.

 

[WildPeaks]

Bluethroatedone,

A nice way to get the best of both worlds, if you will, is to wear poly gloves in a mitt shell. You can hold an ice axe, etc. a lot better than mitt in mitt. Save that combo for the very cold stuff!

 

[DougPaul]

I know there are basically three types of cross-country skis: track skis-the really skinny ones-for classic or skating; off track skis-the slightly fatter ones with either a partial metal edge or full metal edge and the really fat ones. I'm not talking about AT/Randonee or Tele-just CC.

All I would want is something for mostly groomed terrain-roads for example, plus the ability to go off track a bit on rolling terrain-no gonzo downhill stuff. I can downhill ski at a beginner level-parallel turns some of the time, depending on the day, so I understand the concept of edging, etc.

What I have gleaned so far is that something like an Atomic Selkirk, Alpina or Karhu might be what I want, with a 3 pin binding and high leather boot-I have a suspect ankle, so I'm willing to sacrifice agility for support.

Does this sound reasonable for a beginner who won't be doing much more than what I've said? All I want to be able to do is ski into a camping area instead of snowshoe so I would be carrying a pack. I'll take a few lessons so I have at least some idea as to what I'm doing.

The off-track ski with full edges is also known as a BC ski. Kahru makes some reasonable ones. Can't speak pro or con the other brands. (But others must make appropriate skis.)

I have 2 pairs of BC skis which might meet your need (one waxable and one waxless): 65/55/60mm profile, camber-and-a-half, full edges, groove, mounted with 3-pin bindings. I use them both off track and in machine set tracks.

As for boots, something similar to the Asolo Snowfield (mentioned on Dave.m's pages) might do. (I have a pair of these and use them for everything from track to BC to light tele.) If you want more support, you might try a light tele boot: eg Scarpa T3 or Garmont Excursion. (They will also give you even more control of the skis.)

Big question-how do you turn these things? With a tele type turn? Nothing I've seen on the web makes that clear. I've watched the Tele Tom videos on telemarktips.com, but he's using real tele gear.

XC turns: step, snowplow (wedge), stem christie, parallel, tele. (Read a book on basic XC technique or come to the AMC novice XC workshop at Weston, Jan 21. http://www.amcboston.org/ski/workshops.html)

For example-Glacier Point Road at Badger Pass-no real need to turn the skis as in downhilling since the turns are very gentle, but off track, being able to avoid a tree would seem like a necessary skill.

Trees that jump into one's path are a hazard of BC skiing...

Doug