Help with GPS

[CrisisBill]

Well I have a milestone birthday sneaking up on me, I have been asked by a family member to pick a nice gift for myself.
Well I've been putting off getting a GPS unit, waiting for improved features and right price and so on and so on....but now may be the time to jump in; Anyone out there want to go out on the limb and share tips on making my choice, it will be mostly used for bushwacking trips.

 

[bobandgeri]

GPS V® from Garmin - the external antenna greatly improves reception.

http://www.garmin.com/products/gps5/

 

[NH_Mtn_Hiker]

Garmin Etrex Vista is one of the more popular GPS's amongst hikers and my favorite.

Compact, lightweight, water resistant, long battery life, internal memory for maps, WAAS enabled, etc, etc.

Everyone has their own opinion though.

 

[DougPaul]

Garmin Etrex Vista http://www.garmin.com/products/etrexVista/ and the more capable (and expensive) GPSMap 60CS http://www.garmin.com/products/gpsmap60cs/ are good models.

A set of topo maps would be useful too--Mapsource US TOPO (entire US, 100K) and/or Mapsource US TOPO 24K, National Parks, East (limited areas including the Whites, DAKs, and the AT, 24K). There are also road maps available.

The above mapping GPSes can display your current position on a topo map. I consider the mapping capability to be very useful. Non-mapping units also exist.

Lots of GPS info at http://www.gpsinformation.net.

Doug

 

[Neil]

Considering that you'll want mapping software and a cable in addition to your GPS the price tag may get a liitle heavy if you get a GPS that displays downloadable maps. (Don't forget you can always get a plastic grid overlay for 5 bucks and enter all your WP's manually from your paper maps )
My unit dosn't have maps or an electronic compass and I find I get the best use out of it in conjunction with paper maps and a compass. I wouldn't want to be without the software. I have NG Topo! and it's great.

 

[DougPaul]

Considering that you'll want mapping software and a cable in addition to your GPS the price tag may get a liitle heavy if you get a GPS that displays downloadable maps. (Don't forget you can always get a plastic grid overlay for 5 bucks and enter all your WP's manually from your paper maps )
My unit dosn't have maps or an electronic compass and I find I get the best use out of it in conjunction with paper maps and a compass. I wouldn't want to be without the software. I have NG Topo! and it's great.

Yes, the cost can add up, however I feel the extra functionality is worth the cost.

Think of a situation where you might _really_ need the GPS--for instance, "confused" above timberline in howling wind, rain, and fog. Transferring locations between the map and the GPS is now very difficult to (pragmatically) impossible if you have to use lat-lon or UTM. If you have planned every move ahead of time and have appropriate waypoints in the GPS and plotted on a map, then you can transfer locations by inspection. With a mapping GPS you can always transfer locations by inspection. (Just compare the contour lines on the GPS and the map.) Or all the info you need may be shown on the GPS. (The small map shown on the GPS is good for showing the local area, the paper map is much better for the large picture.)

I have used my GPS with and without the appropriate maps loaded. With the maps is much better. (If you try it, you may never want to go back...)

It is also much easier to field program a route into a mapping GPS than a non-mapping unit. (For instance on a trip out west with no computer and a combination of paper topo and road maps without lat and lon.)

My GPS also has a compass--I never use it. I use a traditional compass. (The barometric altimeter is nice and generally more accurate than the GPS altitude--usually within 10 ft with auto-calibration.)

I carry all 4--map, magnetic compass, GPS, and a device that doubles as a hatrack. Each gives you different information and has different failure modes. The combination gives you redundancy and you should be able to navigate in most situations including failures of any of the first 3 as long as the hatrack keeps working...

I have both Mapsource topos and NG TOPO!. Each has strengths and weaknesses and I find them both useful. I primarily use Mapsource to interact with the GPS and NG to look at and print maps. I use either/both to look at tracks.

BTW for the OP: you can only load maps from the same manufacturer into a GPS (eg. Mapsource for Garmin.) Third-party mapping software can only transfer waypoints, routes, and tracks.

So, yes, you can use a non-mapping GPS and save some money, but I'm glad I spent the extra pennies.

Doug

 

[dms]

Doug, how steep is the learning curve on the Garmin? Is it user friendly and intuitive? For someone not overly technically inclined.

 

[bubba]

CrisisBill: I boought my GPS about 12 months ago and at the time followed a tread that contained many raves for Garmin, especially their waterproof qualities. I'm really happy with mine. I think they lead the pack.

dms: My experience is the the Garmin is very intuitive with decent human factors (buttons in the right place, held in hand well, etc.)

 

[DougPaul]

Doug, how steep is the learning curve on the Garmin? Is it user friendly and intuitive? For someone not overly technically inclined.

dms,

Some aspects are pretty intuitive, some are more complicated. Plan on spending some time playing with it (maybe even read the manual!).

If you want to use it to it's fullest, it will take a bit of study. (But it can still be useful without knowing all of the details.) Take it on walks or hikes even when you don't need it, just to get used to it. Even the hiking units can be very useful in the car (the topo maps show roads, but frequently don't name them). The mapping units, once a map is loaded in them, are probably more intuitive than the non-mapping units.

Overall, once you get used to it, its not hard to use. Beginners sometimes have unrealistic expectations--GPSes do not work well indoors and the signals are reduced by trees and blocked by rock. (I've always been able to get a fix in the Whites--but I may have to stop or move to a more open location.) There are also some mistakes that beginners sometimes make--for instance holding it with one's thumb over the antenna or carrying it on one's belt and claiming it gets poor reception (flesh absorbs the signal). There are also a number of details, which if done properly, will significantly improve performance. It may be worth going out with someone knowledgable to help get you going or correct any mistakes.

The Garmin manuals are on their website (don't know about Magellan or Lorance).

Lots of good advice at http://www.gpsinformation.net.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

GPS V® from Garmin - the external antenna greatly improves reception.

Any battery operated GPS can be used hiking, but some are more targeted for hiking than others. The GPS V is more targeted at automotive use than hiking.

From Garmin, the eTrex line, the 12 line (old), the 60 line, and the 72 line are aimed at hiking. The Geko line (small and light) also appears to be aimed at the hiking, but has reduced features and limited battery life.

Don't know the Magellan and Lorance lines well enough to give any specific comments.

Doug

 

[Neil]

Yes, the cost can add up, however I feel the extra functionality is worth the cost.
...
Think of a situation where you might _really_ need the GPS--for instance, "confused" above timberline in howling wind, rain, and fog. Transferring locations between the map and the GPS is now very difficult to (pragmatically) impossible if you have to use lat-lon or UTM.
...
I have used my GPS with and without the appropriate maps loaded. With the maps is much better. (If you try it, you may never want to go back...)
Doug

I sure wouldn't want to "pull" wp's off of a paper map in those conditions and thumb click them into my unit.

I'm also sure that a mapping gps is superior to a non-mappping unit. It's just that I don't have one so I make do .

I only got the thing (second hand as an experiment) this winter and at first I found it a bit of a hindrance, (I'm old and have used map and compass for a long time) Finally, I stopped seeing it as either/or and began combining the two with much better effect.

My unit is a RINO which means it's a 2-way GPS radio at the same time which would be really cool if I knew other people with the same technology.

 

[Remix]

I favor the Magellan Meridian Platinum because of all the memory you can put into it. (I dont know if you add memory to a Garmin.) You can add a cheap memory card to it, buy its topo software, and download the maps all at once. Northeast Maine to South West Michigan fits in a 128 mb memory SD card. I know you can use a 512 mb card, and maybe a 1gig card.

This is handy because you don't have to remember or take the time to keep loading and reloading maps whenever you go to a new area. And it can be used in the car to get to the trailhead if your traveling through many states.

The card also stores your tracks as "files" you can name, save and reload, so you can do *alot* of hiking before having to download them to make more room. Keeping tracks in the unit is handy when u revisit the same areas in winter.

Finally, I would stick with a helix antenna, not a patch antenna. Patch antennas have to face the sky, and this may be inconvenient for hiking.
If you can try out the units, choose the screen that shows satellite signal strength. Observe the screen with the unit held flat like a tv remote. Then hold the unit perpendicular to the ground. See if you still have good reception.

 

[CrisisBill]

Wow, and this is why I have put it off so long. Thank's to everyone for the information. I'll try to find a fellow hiker with one and take a hike and test drive a few units. I must be getting old, nothing is easy any longer; so many choices.

 

[DougPaul]

Finally, I would stick with a helix antenna, not a patch antenna. Patch antennas have to face the sky, and this may be inconvenient for hiking.
If you can try out the units, choose the screen that shows satellite signal strength. Observe the screen with the unit held flat like a tv remote. Then hold the unit perpendicular to the ground. See if you still have good reception.

Actually, both types of antenna give similar performance if oriented properly. (Quadrafilar helix with its axis vertical, patch with its flat surface (top) pointed up.) Note that comsumer external amplified antennas are generally patch, not helix.

Example 1:
The Garmin eTrex line uses a patch antenna located above the display behind the Garmin symbol. The best orientation is flat, as one would lay it on a table. To carry it on the trail, mount in a small pocket attached to a pack shoulder strap at the top of the shoulder or in the top pocket of your pack, oriented flat.

Example 2:
The Garmin 60 or 72 lines use quad helicies oriented verically (particularly obvious in the model 60 line). The best orientation is vertical. On the trail, a good place to carry it would be in a small pocket attached to a pack shoulder strap just forward of the shoulder or in a vertical sidepocket on the pack.

The GPS signals are blocked by flesh, wet objects, and metal so it is desireable to carry the GPS as high and clear of one's body as possible. Some people carry an external antenna in their hat and run the wire down to the GPS--records a better track than the lower carrying points. Trail surveying is frequently done with the antenna mounted on a short pole.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

Wow, and this is why I have put it off so long.

Don't be intimidated. A GPS may be a complicated little beast if you want to use all of its capability, but one usually only uses a habitable subset of its capability. Much of the common functionality is pretty easy to figure out and use. If you get one and play with it, you will learn a lot. Add an occasional checkout with someone knowledgable to answer questions and catch any mistakes and you should be OK.

It helps if you have a PC--the ability to load maps and exchange data (waypoints, routes, and tracks) is very useful (and not difficult).

Doug

 

[masshysteria]

Bill, I have a Garmin Etrex Vista, which I enjoy and use quite often. If I had to complain about something, it would be that the reception can fade out in thick cover. The one thing that I do to improve reception, like DougPaul suggested, is to keep the screen facing the sky. I either hook it to a strap at the top of my packs shoulder strap, or I hook it onto the wrist strap on my hiking poles, keeping the face oriented upward. Obviously, I had to purchase the Etrex carry case to accomplish this.($15).
I use 3 different mapping programs with the Etrex: Nat. Geo. Topo, DeLorme Topo, And the Garmin Mapsource. I find I end up using the NG Topo the most. I prefer the fact that it uses USGS topos, which the other two don't. The Delorme has more routing options. With the Garmin, you can download topographic contours to the GPS.
The usual warnings are in order though. Know how to use a map and compass. The GPS is a tool in addition to the M&C, it doesn't replace it. The gps can be very accurate, as long as the GPS and the map are using the same datum. The instruction manual will show you how to change the datum fields. They really are fairly easy to use, once you fool around with them for a while.
Tom

 

[percious]

The GPS signals are blocked by flesh, wet objects, and metal so it is desireable to carry the GPS as high and clear of one's body as possible. Some people carry an external antenna in their hat and run the wire down to the GPS--records a better track than the lower carrying points. Trail surveying is frequently done with the antenna mounted on a short pole.

Doug

Please see attached picture for optimal GPS placement.

-percious

 

[DougPaul]

reception can fade out in thick cover. The one thing that I do to improve reception, like DougPaul suggested, is to keep the screen facing the sky.

I use 3 different mapping programs with the Etrex: Nat. Geo. Topo, DeLorme Topo, And the Garmin Mapsource. I find I end up using the NG Topo the most. I prefer the fact that it uses USGS topos, which the other two don't. The Delorme has more routing options. With the Garmin, you can download topographic contours to the GPS.

Other aids to reception: use normal mode, not battery save. Don't bother with WAAS--WAAS sats are too low on the horizon and the mode consumes power. Get lock before you enter heavy cover--it is easier to maintain lock than it is to acquire lock. If you lose lock, stop in a good spot--it is easier to acquire lock when stationary. Carrying the GPS on top of your head or even clipped to the adjustment strap at the back of a baseball cap also works pretty well with the eTrex Vista-shaped GPSes.

Another approach is an external amplified antenna on top of your hat (if you can stand the geek factor and not get tangled in the cable). A Tilley hat has a pocket in the crown--just right for hiding the antenna!

Nat Geo TOPO! maps are scanned USGS topos. Garmin topos are USGS vector topo maps. (Vector maps are smaller and scale easily, scanned maps don't scale well.) Don't know about Delorme off hand.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

Please see attached picture for optimal GPS placement.
http://www.vftt.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=743

That works, but watch out for low branches...

Works better with an external antenna--allows one to read the GPS without taking one's pack off or removing the GPS from the pole.

Here is a professional version: http://www.trimble.com/hurricane.shtml

Doug

 

[masshysteria]

Doug, do you think there is a way to 'jury-rig' an external antenna to an Etrex Vista?