Hikers knocked down by mini-avalanche on MT Washington

[bobandgeri]

Story from Union Leader

A good reminder that even a little snow can be dangerous!

 

[DougPaul]

A good reminder that even a little snow can be dangerous!

Also that most avalanches fall during or shortly after snowfalls...

Doug

 

[Woody]

Regardless of the posted avalanche danger the possibility of a small slide is always there when climbing in areas such as Huntington and Tuckerman Ravine. Getting out with only a minor leg injury is very lucky. I'd like to see more people carrying beacons in these areas. Granted at $300+ they are expensive, but when minutes count..... Do you want to tell your family about the avalanche when you get home, or would you rather that some state or medical professional call them?

 

[dave.m]

Instead of spending $300 on a beacon, I would rather people spend that money on an avalanche course. Specifically, I would rather see people get enough education to stay out of avalanche terrain when conditions could kill them so easily.

Sadly, I'm afraid that for a lot of people beacons (like most so-called safety equipment) do little other than to create a false sense of security. The end result is more exposure to risk.

 

[sierra]

beacons are overkill in NH, out west they have a use, but here?

 

[el-bagr]

Beacons are overkill only when not in avalanche terrain.

There is avalanche terrain in New Hampshire (and Maine, and Vermont). Google it up if you don't believe me.

Planning a stroll up the Old Bridle Path? Sure, I don't bring my transceiver for that trip. But skiing or climbing in the admittedly isolated but significant areas where avalanches do occur? I'm beeping.

That way my partner can recover my corpse, or maybe even dig me out before it's too late.

 

[percious]

I wore a beacon in Tuckerman's on Dec. 27 and in Huntington's on Dec. 28. They are definitely good to have. Remember, any snow steep enough to recreate on is steep enough to slide. Even in "General advisory" Conditions, human triggered avalanches especially can occur, if there has been enough snow blown into the ravines.

Here is a link to the current conditions in Tucks/Hunts:

http://www.tuckerman.org/avalanche/

Looks like "general advisory" will not last long.

-percious

 

[kmac]

avalanches in the presidental range

beacons are overkill in NH, out west they have a use, but here?

i disagree. there have been a number of deaths caused by avalanches in nh, and if one is carrying a beacon in avalanche territory they will have a good chance of being located. never say never!

DEATHS FROM AVALANCHES IN THE PRESIDENTIAL RANGE
Aaron Leve, 28, Boston, MA, February 19, 1956

Hugo Stadtmueller, 28, Cambridge, MA, April 4, 1964

John Griffin, 39, Hanover, MA, April 4, 1964

Albert Dow, 29, Tuftonboro, NH, January 25, 1982

Thomas Smith, 41, Montpelier, VT, February 24, 1991

Alexandre Cassan, 19, Becanour, Quebec, January 5, 1996

John Wald, 35, Cambridge, MA, March 24, 1996

Todd Crumbaker, 35, Billerica, MA, March 24, 1996

David McPhedran, 42, Kents Hill, Maine, February 20, 2000

Thomas Burke, 46, West Springfield, NH, November 29, 2002

Scott Sandburg, 32, Arlington, MA, November 29, 2002

 

[dave.m]

beacons are overkill in NH, out west they have a use, but here?

Beacons, along with avi training and shovel and practice, are needed anytime you venture into avi terrain.

Out west, it is practically impossible to step out of a parking lot without stepping into avi terrain.

In the east, we have a 99% idea of where slides can happen. Huntington Ravine, where this incident occured, is one of those places.

Here is a link to the avi bulletin for the day of the incident.
http://www.tuckerman.org/avalanche/archives/2006-12-30.html

I've seen a human triggered slough take out 3 skiers in Tucks many years ago after somewhat similar weather. A paltry few inches of snow on the summits with high winds and thus deposits in the eastern gullies. I recognize that there are people with enough avi training and expertise to travel in these places with some degree of, well, if not safety at least good risk awareness.

Me? I prefer to ski in the woods. BTW, I disagree with the assertion that any slope steep enough to be fun can slide. While it is possible for a slide to occur in the woods (it is has happened), such slides are statistically very, very rare and the risk is entirely non-comparable to the avi risk seen in the chutes, slides and ravines.

BTW, call me grim, but it seems to me that a beacon without a partner with a shovel and training is just an aid for body recovery by rescuers.

 

[dug]

Aaah, yes, I was wondering how long it was going to take before we get into the West vs. East argument again.

A beacon can be of use wherever you are concerned about getting buried. I don't carry one, as I avoid the problem. But, I certainly wouldn't call them overkill.

 

[David Metsky]

Aaah, yes, I was wondering how long it was going to take before we get into the West vs. East argument again.

It's not an argument, it's a discussion. Everything seems pretty darn civil to me.

 

[dug]

#1"An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition."

#2"No, it isn't."

#1"Yes it is! It's not just contradiction."

#2"Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position."

#1"Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'"

#2"Yes it is!"

#1" No it isn't!"

#2"Yes it is!"

#1"Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes."

#2"No it isn't."

 

[forestgnome]

If a hiker is buried by even a foot of snow, and cannot move due to injury, unconsciousness, etc., then a beacon might help others in a group save the hiker's life. It's well worth $300 for those who hike in terrain where avalanches are commonplace.

Happy Trails

 

[--M.]

OH! Oh! I'm sorry! This is Abuse!

 

[cbcbd]

Instead of spending $300 on a beacon, I would rather people spend that money on an avalanche course. Specifically, I would rather see people get enough education to stay out of avalanche terrain when conditions could kill them so easily.

I second that and add that having a beacon/probe/shovel and not knowing how to use it is as useful as not having a beacon at all.
As a primer on avalanches (does not substitute taking a course), this post was very useful:
http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=12813&highlight=avalanche+free

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

i disagree. there have been a number of deaths caused by avalanches in nh, and if one is carrying a beacon in avalanche territory they will have a good chance of being located. never say never!

DEATHS FROM AVALANCHES IN THE PRESIDENTIAL RANGE
Aaron Leve, 28, Boston, MA, February 19, 1956

Hugo Stadtmueller, 28, Cambridge, MA, April 4, 1964

John Griffin, 39, Hanover, MA, April 4, 1964

Albert Dow, 29, Tuftonboro, NH, January 25, 1982

Thomas Smith, 41, Montpelier, VT, February 24, 1991

Alexandre Cassan, 19, Becanour, Quebec, January 5, 1996

John Wald, 35, Cambridge, MA, March 24, 1996

Todd Crumbaker, 35, Billerica, MA, March 24, 1996

David McPhedran, 42, Kents Hill, Maine, February 20, 2000

Thomas Burke, 46, West Springfield, NH, November 29, 2002

Scott Sandburg, 32, Arlington, MA, November 29, 2002

I know that the first three of the above were killed by avalanche impacts and not burial. Can someone verify how many of the others were killed by avalanche burial? I am thinking that Cassan was buried on Lions Head (summer route) and that Wald and Crumbaker may have been buried on Gulf of Slides?

 

[DougPaul]

The stats are that a significant number of those caught in an avalanche are killed outright. (Don't have the numbers memorized--I might be able to find them.) Transceivers won't help them.

IMO, if you actually need your transceiver, you have failed step one...
(staying out of the avalanche in the first place).

Doug

 

[kmac]

USFS accident report and news article

I know that the first three of the above were killed by avalanche impacts and not burial. Can someone verify how many of the others were killed by avalanche burial? I am thinking that Cassan was buried on Lions Head (summer route) and that Wald and Crumbaker may have been buried on Gulf of Slides?

researched and found these articles on some of the nh deaths.
kmac
http://www.seacoastonline.com/2003news/02102003/col_comm/12211.htm
http://www.avalanche-center.org/Incidents/1995-96/NH-032496
http://www.avalanche-center.org/Incidents/1995-96/NH-010596

 

[DougPaul]

Found some stats on avalanche fatalities:

The Avalanche Handbook, McClung and Schaerer
* 25% die from collisions with trees, rocks, and other obstacles
* 65% die from suffocation
* 10% die from hypothermia and shock
So at least 25% cannot be rescued even if you know where they are.


Avalanche Survival Tricks, by Roberts
http://www.planetfear.com/article_detail.asp?a_id=360
* 80% survive if the victim remains on the surface
* 40% survive if buried
----------------------------------
Survival rate by burial depth:
..... .5m ...... 73%
... 1.0m ...... 36%
... 1.5m ...... 15%
... 2.0m ........ 0%
>=2.5m ........ 0%
---------------------------------------
Full burial survival rate vs rescue time
15min ..... >90%
35min ....... 30%


Transcievers and Avalanche Survival, by Jamieson
http://www.schulich.ucalgary.ca/cgi-bin/ENG/TrackIt.pl?beacons_survival.pdf
Survival rates for buried victims:
13% Without transceivers
32% With transceivers


So, while transceivers will increase your chance of survival if caught, the odds still aren't very good. It is much better to stay out of the avalanche in the first place...

Also, there isn't time to go for help. Only those on (or very close to the) scene with transceivers, probe poles, shovels, and the knowledge of how to use them will be able to help.

Oh yes--95% of fatal avalanches are started by members of the victim's party.


More info: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=avalanche+survival+rates&btnG=Google+Search

Doug

 

[dug]

I know that the first three of the above were killed by avalanche impacts and not burial. Can someone verify how many of the others were killed by avalanche burial? I am thinking that Cassan was buried on Lions Head (summer route) and that Wald and Crumbaker may have been buried on Gulf of Slides?

McPhedran was killed in an avalanche in the Gulf of Slides, but he was only half buried and was visible to the other person in the party. It just took too long to get to him and to revive him. Beacon wouldn't have helped him.