Hiking from the summit of Washington....

[freighttrain48]

How common is it for people to ski up the toll road on Washington in winter? Does it get a lot of use like the Whiteface toll road in the Adirondacks?

From my understanding is the auto road gets very icy and windblown above tree line making it a less than Ideal route to ski down or up. I guess it can be quite treachorus in a snow cat in some places let alone skiing. Has it been done? I am sure someone has, I belive that it is not worth it when there are so many other decents availible

 

[--M.]

It's a knowable answer. My thought is that the Auto Road people use it for their winter ride service (passenger vans with tracks) and would prefer not to have people on it. It definitely seems like an orange to Whiteface's apple!

 

[Tim Seaver]

Something tells me that, for them, the day was more about tackling the slides than pursuing the list.

Wow! What on earth is WRONG with those people? Next thing you know, people will just be wandering aimlessly enjoying the scenery.

 

[skiguy]

One thing I like about the club is that it is entirely on the honor system, so you are only cheating yourself.

Tim

Your only cheating if you claim you are playing the game by the AMC rules. Some folks climb four thousand footers for the fun and challenge of it and do it any which way they want because they could care less about a patch. I would have to say that their are probably times like right now where riding a bike on Livermore road might be harder than hiking it. As far as the Mount Washington Auto Road being skied...it gets done regularly. If you do "George" that way my own personal rules says you've climbed it in Winter. For that sake try Biking the Auto Road sometime and then have someone try to tell you that you haven't climbed Washington. IMO the important thing is to remember it's supposed to be fun to be in the mountains. So play by your own rules if that's what makes it fun. If you want an "Official Patch" saying so...... play by their rules.

 

[DougPaul]

How common is it for people to ski up the toll road on Washington in winter?

It is very doable if the snow conditions are good enough--I have skied up the auto road to around the 4 mile mark were it became icy and I expect that the entire road has been done.

It is now part of the Great Glen Trails XC ski area and requires a pass. However, last I knew, there was a section ~2mi up where one could use it to connect between two trails from Pinkham Notch free of charge.

Doug

 

[DSettahr]

For the non-High Peak Adirondack Hundred Highest and the sub-New England Hundred Highest peaks of the Northeast 3000-Footer list, bicycles are permitted if the local road authority allows them, such as on the logging roads in Maine, or I think in the Santanoni Preserve, and probably too on the land of the various Adirondack fishing and hunting clubs, if you have permission to even be there.

I guess since 44 of the 46 high peaks in the Adirondacks are in wilderness areas where bicycle use isn't even permitted, it's an issue that's never really come up for the 46ers. Definitely a different situation than the Whites, where so many more of the peaks are located outside of wilderness areas.

 

[rup]

Is Equinox now a 4000 ftr???

 

[Ed'n Lauky]

<spoken in a small innocent voice>
You mean I can't start from Rte 113 S of Evans Notch?
</small innocent voice>


Doug

Why not start from Rt. 1 and make a day of it.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

One thing I like about the club is that it is entirely on the honor system, so you are only cheating yourself

Your only cheating if you claim you are playing the game by the AMC rules. ... If you want an "Official Patch" saying so...... play by their rules.

By "club" I meant the AMC 4000-footer club, ergo, play by their rules. By "count", I assumed Grouseking meant for credit in the club.

I believe (could be wrong) that the Auto Road on Washington is private property and therefore you need to pay, or have a ski pass in winter, to be upon it.

Tim

 

[skiguy]

By "club" I meant the AMC 4000-footer club, ergo, play by their rules. By "count", I assumed Grouseking meant for credit in the club.

I believe (could be wrong) that the Auto Road on Washington is private property and therefore you need to pay, or have a ski pass in winter, to be upon it.

Tim

I guess we agree then on rules within a given game. The lower part I believe, around two miles of the Auto Road is groomed by the Great Glen Touring Center and is a pay for area. Above the ungroomed area I have never had a problem with anyone looking for fees or questioning me being on the road with skis. I usually access the Auto road from Pinkham Notch HQ's via the Old Jackson Road which puts you on the Auto Road above the groomed section. It can be anything from an excellent tour to down right lousey. It's all about the timing around weather, snow conditions and shift changes at the OB's.

 

[grouseking]

By "club" I meant the AMC 4000-footer club, ergo, play by their rules. By "count", I assumed Grouseking meant for credit in the club.
Tim

Yup thats what I meant. I still think its strange that they don't allow hiking from different trailheads along the Washington auto road to count. I understand that it would create an unfair advantage if you are hiking up to Washington, but Adams, Jefferson, etc? That is why I thought when the rules said, no auto roads, they meant for the summit of the road the mountain climbs. That is a shame.

 

[DougPaul]

The lower part I believe, around two miles of the Auto Road is groomed by the Great Glen Touring Center and is a pay for area. Above the ungroomed area I have never had a problem with anyone looking for fees or questioning me being on the road with skis. I usually access the Auto road from Pinkham Notch HQ's via the Old Jackson Road which puts you on the Auto Road above the groomed section. It can be anything from an excellent tour to down right lousey. It's all about the timing around weather, snow conditions and shift changes at the OB's.

According to Goodman (2010), only the 1.3 mi between Old Jackson Rd and Connie's Way is free, the rest of the road above and below requires a pass. However, I wouldn't be surprised if enforcement above OJR is lax.

He also states that the lower 4 mi of the road is groomed, but I haven't checked myself.

FWIW, I skied it before Great Glen Trails (owned by Mt Washington Auto Road Company) started business. We went up OJR and the road to the 4 mile point (IIRC, there was a building there at the time) and descended the road--it was a nice fast run down. The only "grooming" was the snowcat track.

Doug

 

[skiguy]

According to Goodman (2010), only the 1.3 mi between Old Jackson Rd and Connie's Way is free, the rest of the road above and below requires a pass. However, I wouldn't be surprised if enforcement above OJR is lax.

He also states that the lower 4 mi of the road is groomed, but I haven't checked myself.

FWIW, I skied it before Great Glen Trails (owned by Mt Washington Auto Road Company) started business. We went up OJR and the road to the 4 mile point (IIRC, there was a building there at the time) and descended the road--it was a nice fast run down. The only "grooming" was the snowcat track.

Doug

Over the time that Great Glen has been grooming the Auto Road I have personally seen a variability of the amount they groom. The lower four miles is probably the most they would groom conditions permitting. I have seen them groom below and above Old Jackson Road again dependent upon conditions. Again I have never had a problem being hassled for money coming in on Old Jackson Road, not to say I might not be playing by the rules and I or someone else might be pegged for a fee. My impression is that above that Old Jackson Road things are lax . Some of us have been touring up through there for years and way before Great Glen Trails even existed. Being local I am usually up through there at off times and again have not had problems. It could be a different scene on weekends and Holidays.

 

[Lefty E]

It would seem to me there are no trailheads on the Auto Road, just where trails cross the road so therefore not count..and since the thread went in a direction here is some scenarios to ponder..Owl's Head seems to be one that bikers ride to the beginning of the Franconia Brook Trail as they are allowed to do..is that a trailhead?? or just a junction..then what if the forest service road to a trail head is closed (think Sawyer River Rd) to motor vehicles but is passable for bicycles so folks take bikes to the Signal Ridge trailhead for Carrigain..that should count for a 4 kr??
First one I say no second one yes....

 

[MichaelJ]

The rules specifically state that if a road is closed to automobile traffic *on the day of your hike* then you must walk, not bicycle or use other transport. It does not matter why the road is closed, winter or washout. Thus, for the AMC 4000-footer club:

*** Bicycling the closed-since-Irene-damage Sawyer River Road to the Signal Ridge Trailhead is NOT allowed.

Also:

Owl's Head seems to be one that bikers ride to the beginning of the Franconia Brook Trail as they are allowed to do

Bicycling the Lincoln Woods Trail to the Wilderness boundary at the Franconia Brook Trail is allowed by Wilderness regulations, but not allowed by the AMC 4000-footer rules, which allow bicycling only on roads open to automobile traffic.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I really don't see how this is unclear. The only way it can be unclear is if you are looking for wiggle room or a loophole.

I think the only place any peakbaggers go with regularity where there is room to cycle where most wouldn't drive is on the CVR:

fairly easily passable to an average four-wheel-drive vehicle (not an ATV) without "heroic measures" such as winches. (If you think a jeep might not make it, then please walk.)

I've seen a Jeep CJ4 all the way down to the pond, and no winch on the front, so that would seem to be fair game for a bicycle. Maybe on some of the western Maine (6-pack) peaks as well...

Tim

 

[Raymond]

Right you are, Tim.

Gee, I specifically addressed Owls Head above, and two months ago, after seeing a bicycle parked at the Signal Ridge Trail head, asked about Sawyer River Road, for which Michael provided the same answer he gave today.

We’re all supposedly hikers, so why do so many look to get out of actually walking? Too difficult? As the song says ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9jeh4mA5us

 

[brianW]

I saw back a few years ago about a 4k club for the southern Appalachians to encourge hikers to more remote and less hiked peaks. Right in it they mentioned the idea came from AMC 4K club. One rule stuck out to me was all hikes had to be 4 miles (maybe 5) in lengh or longer to count. This was to eliminate bagging Brasstown Bald, Clingsman Dome or another short hike from say from the Blue Ridge Parkway. this simple rule eliminated what road/trail head you can use, not use.

 

[grouseking]

I saw back a few years ago about a 4k club for the southern Appalachians to encourge hikers to more remote and less hiked peaks. Right in it they mentioned the idea came from AMC 4K club. One rule stuck out to me was all hikes had to be 4 miles (maybe 5) in lengh or longer to count. This was to eliminate bagging Brasstown Bald, Clingsman Dome or another short hike from say from the Blue Ridge Parkway. this simple rule eliminated what road/trail head you can use, not use.

Excellent idea. I was just going to say....if the AMC ever amends the rules that have been set, I think if a hike ends up being over a certain distance, say over 10 miles, it should count, no matter where you park your car.

Perhaps this will bring up more questions, but I like it.

 

[Lefty E]

Right you are, Tim.

Gee, I specifically addressed Owls Head above, and two months ago, after seeing a bicycle parked at the Signal Ridge Trail head, asked about Sawyer River Road, for which Michael provided the same answer he gave today.

We’re all supposedly hikers, so why do so many look to get out of actually walking? Too difficult? As the song says ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9jeh4mA5us

That's what I was meaning, hike from the trailhead!! though I have not had a chance to look at the you tube...