Hiking from the summit of Washington....

[DSettahr]

Is Equinox now a 4000 ftr???

I asked a similar question earlier in the thread...

What list is Mt. Equinox on? Certainly not the 4000 footer list... is it a NE HH?

Yes. Equinox is Number 84 or 85 on the list, elevation is approximately 3850 feet, same as Mendon Peak’s.

 

[dug]

So I am clear, one could leave from Zealand Rd. on the Hale Brook Trail, summit Mt. Hale, and be back in their car in about 2-3 hours of "hiking" with very little effort. This would "count".

However, one could not leave from the Mt. Washington State Park parking lot, summit Mt. Madison, with considerable more effort, and this would not "count".

 

[grouseking]

So I am clear, one could leave from Zealand Rd. on the Hale Brook Trail, summit Mt. Hale, and be back in their car in about 2-3 hours of "hiking" with very little effort. This would "count".

However, one could not leave from the Mt. Washington State Park parking lot, summit Mt. Madison, with considerable more effort, and this would not "count".

Yeah, thats what it sounds like. And that is why I asked the question in the first place, because it seemed so strange for it not to count.

 

[skiguy]

So I am clear, one could leave from Zealand Rd. on the Hale Brook Trail, summit Mt. Hale, and be back in their car in about 2-3 hours of "hiking" with very little effort. This would "count".

However, one could not leave from the Mt. Washington State Park parking lot, summit Mt. Madison, with considerable more effort, and this would not "count".

Only as far as the AMC is concerned.....

 

[Tom Rankin]

Every game has rules.

Play by the rules, change the rules, or cheat.

Your decision.

 

[Ed'n Lauky]

So I am clear, one could leave from Zealand Rd. on the Hale Brook Trail, summit Mt. Hale, and be back in their car in about 2-3 hours of "hiking" with very little effort. This would "count".

However, one could not leave from the Mt. Washington State Park parking lot, summit Mt. Madison, with considerable more effort, and this would not "count".

Hit a ball clear out of the stadium that's six inches to the right of the foul pole at Fenway Park and it doesn't count, it's just a long foul ball. Hit a ball that just makes it into the first row that's six inches to the left of the pole and it's a home run. Life's not fair, but the rules are the rules.

 

[dug]

To be clear, I could give a rat's ass personally. If you feel you want a patch, or a signature line with your exploits, this 'rule' would apply to you.

The arbitrary "rules" and how they are decided seems puzzling to me, but again...not my cup o' tea so I was just curious as to the randomness of the rules.

 

[MichaelJ]

The rule about the Mt Washington Auto Road isn't random at all. The rule exists just to avoid this debate … if you were to start from the summit parking lot, would Monroe count? Would Jefferson? Madison? How can you possibly demarcate what's reasonable — need there be 2000' of gain (for most people, ascent is more difficult than descent)? Both gain and loss? Minimum mileage? What about starting from the top of the Cannon Tram or the Mansfield Gondola?

No. To make it simple and fair across the board, the rule exists as it does today. Such a start is ineligible.

Football fans should think of the Tuck Rule. Does it suck as a rule? Yup. But it also takes judgment out of the equation: once the QB's arm starts moving forward, any loss of the ball to the ground is an incomplete pass until the ball is tucked, after which loss of the ball is a fumble. Each of these steps is an irrefutable fact, hopefully visible to the officials live or on replay. There is no requirement for the officials to try to decide "it looks like he was trying to throw" vs "it looks like he was trying to bring his arm in and tuck the ball." They just look at the facts and apply the rule. This is the same idea.

 

[Billy]

Why all the confusion and heartache? Some people afford the AMC way more importance than it deserves. It's a patch of cloth for goodness sake. It's not going to get you a better job, get you laid, or get you to the summit of K2. It's a patch of cloth with some writing on it, indicating you followed the rules of their game, 48 times. That's all it is. If that kind of thing is important to you, then follow their rules.......it's really so very simple. Hiking per a list is good clean fun; if you want to do it, just follow the rules....so easy to do.

But if you do drive to the summit of Washington and then hike to Madison, trust me, it'll be one of the most beautiful hikes you'll ever do in the northeast. Keep in mind, none of these peaks (Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Madison) will "count" toward your 4k patch, so you'll have to tax your imagination and think of some other reason to enjoy this hike.

 

[skiguy]

Why all the confusion and heartache? Some people afford the AMC way more importance than it deserves. It's a patch of cloth for goodness sake. It's not going to get you a better job, get you laid, or get you to the summit of K2. It's a patch of cloth with some writing on it, indicating you followed the rules of their game, 48 times. That's all it is. If that kind of thing is important to you, then follow their rules.......it's really so very simple. Hiking per a list is good clean fun; if you want to do it, just follow the rules....so easy to do.

But if you do drive to the summit of Washington and then hike to Madison, trust me, it'll be one of the most beautiful hikes you'll ever do in the northeast. Keep in mind, none of these peaks (Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Madison) will "count" toward your 4k patch, so you'll have to tax your imagination and think of some other reason to enjoy this hike.

I agree except about the getting laid part.

 

[dug]

So, its the trailhead part. What if I took the Auto Rd., jumped out of my car, and hiked the Wamsutta Trail, down into Great Gulf, then over to Madison. I'd be starting at the Wamsutta Trailhead. Would that count?

Humor me. I find these rules fascinating.

 

[sierra]

So, its the trailhead part. What if I took the Auto Rd., jumped out of my car, and hiked the Wamsutta Trail, down into Great Gulf, then over to Madison. I'd be starting at the Wamsutta Trailhead. Would that count?

Humor me. I find these rules fascinating.

No that would not count. The rules are quite simple and should be followed to the letter if you want the AMC patch, if you do not want to "officially" join the club, by all means use any method that makes you happy.
That being said some rules do seem rediculous, let me give an example. Im working on the 14ers in CO, the rules state you must ascend 3000ft for a peak to count, on most thats easy. There is one peak MT. Bierstadt that starts on the top of a pass( Guenella) at an elevation that does not meet the 3000ft rule by a couple hundred feet. To meet the rule you would have to park down the road and walk up to the trailhead. I see this as nonsense I park at the trailhead the road is narrow and Im not leaving my truck in a bad place and walking a road for the sake of a few hundred feet. Does that peak count for me? I sleep good at night, I actually love the mountain and have climbed it 8 times, maybe that will make up the difference.

 

[MichaelJ]

According to http://www.14ers.com/routemain.php?route=bier1&peak=Mt. Bierstadt you're supposed to park in the lots at the top of the Pass at 11,700' and the hike has a listed gain of 2,850' so somebody must have changed their mind on that rule at some point.

 

[DSettahr]

Why all the confusion and heartache? Some people afford the AMC way more importance than it deserves.

I'm not sure if you're just referring to the AMC's 4,000 footer rules, or the entire organization as a whole, but either way it's worth remembering just how much the AMC has done for the protection of natural and cultural resources in New England.

It's a patch of cloth for goodness sake. It's not going to get you a better job, get you laid, or get you to the summit of K2.

I've had several employers tell me, after I'd already been hired and they discovered that I was an Adirondack 46r, that this was something that I should include on my resume. The skills pertaining to mountaineering might not be applicable to most professions, but the willingness and determination to achieve a goal that isn't easy is.

I agree that it's important that everyone feel free to "hike their own hike," but it's also important to remember that for some (many) hikers, that includes assigning a great level of importance to the rules set forth by the AMC for the 4,000 footers. It's a two way street when it comes to mountaineering challenges and patches- not only should the "rule followers" need to be respectful towards the choices made by the "rule breakers," but the "rule breakers" ought to be respectful towards the choices made by the "rule followers," especially if abiding by the rules is so important to them.

And sometimes, in the face of peer pressure and outspoken critics, it's much more difficult to be a "rule follower" than it is to be a "rule breaker."

 

[RoySwkr]

For the non-High Peak Adirondack Hundred Highest and the sub-New England Hundred Highest peaks of the Northeast 3000-Footer list, bicycles are permitted if the local road authority allows them, such as on the logging roads in Maine, or I think in the Santanoni Preserve, and probably too on the land of the various Adirondack fishing and hunting clubs, if you have permission to even be there.

Do you have a source for this statement, given that there is no official rules authority?
* Certainly many of the original 3k finishers would think bicycles were unsporting - even 4wd was frowned on
* Many logging roads are not officially open to bicycles if you ask, but people do it anyway

 

[Billy]

I'm not sure if you're just referring to the AMC's 4,000 footer rules, or the entire organization as a whole, but either way it's worth remembering just how much the AMC has done for the protection of natural and cultural resources in New England...

Thank you, I'm well aware of what the AMC does and claims to do....I'm not the least bit impressed. But more to the point of the thread, in my earlier post I was referring to the AMC 4k'er rules.

I've had several employers tell me, after I'd already been hired and they discovered that I was an Adirondack 46r, that this was something that I should include on my resume. The skills pertaining to mountaineering might not be applicable to most professions, but the willingness and determination to achieve a goal that isn't easy is...

If my employer ever told me he thought my love for repeatedly walking in the woods to the top of some small mountains was resume-worthy, I'd have a hard time keeping from laughing in his face.

 

[DSettahr]

If my employer ever told me he thought my love for repeatedly walking in the woods to the top of some small mountains was resume-worthy, I'd have a hard time keeping from laughing in his face.

If I was an employer who had an employee laugh in my face about what I was resume worthy, they'd probably have a hard time keeping their job (or even getting it in the first place!)

Of course, my employers have all been somehow related to the field of Natural Resources Management, so a love of the outdoors is certainly pertinent in those situations. It might not be pertinent for every career field.

I'm curious- why aren't you impressed with the AMC?

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Hit a ball clear out of the stadium that's six inches to the right of the foul pole at Fenway Park and it doesn't count, it's just a long foul ball. Hit a ball that just makes it into the first row that's six inches to the left of the pole and it's a home run. Life's not fair, but the rules are the rules.

That only works for Pesky's pole (not for Pudge's)

Tim

 

[skiguy]

So did anyone here actually get laid because they followed all the AMC's Rules and got a patch for it? Or is it all really a Game you had fun doing in the process otherwise? On your resume or not I hope we all are still having fun in the mountains. Hikers have their rules as much as anybody whom frequent the mountains. Join the AMC and play by their Rules and Game if that's what you need to be important; but please don't shove it down my throat if I don't want it. Being in the outdoors for the sheer enjoyment of it goes way beyond any "Patch" I need approval from any group. The big promblem with the Appies IMO is they think and feel they are the end all when it comes to "Ethics" within the White Mountain National Forest: therefore having a precieved notion that they rule Peakbagging in the Whites. Let's all give some thought to looking outside that unidementional sphere.

 

[Ed'n Lauky]

Join the AMC and play by their Rules and Game if that's what you need to be important;

That's how this thread started and that basically is what it is about. Grousseking asked about the AMC rules for the 4000 footer patch and that's all that folks have been trying to explain.

As for the rest of what you said, I don't think there is much disagreement there either. In fact I would say that not only are folks not trying to shove anything down anyone's throat, I think you might be surprised how little anyone really cares how, when, and where anyone else hikes--postholes excepted of course.