Humbling News

[skiguy]

It can happen not only in the BC but inbounds too. If you have not had Avy training I incourage you to do so.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hC0t6YTXWxsexnFT97Qw5Nu_G1PgD95C30O80

http://military.rightpundits.com/2008/12/27/jackson-hole-avalanche/

 

[Craig]

9 avalanche deaths so far this season.
If you recall, we had 1 death last year.

Be Safe

 

[WinterWarlock]

Not a good year so far - too many freeze/thaw cycles I'd guess. Jackson Hole had a follow on one this morning that shut the whole place down...buried the ski patrol shack. Luckily no injuries...

 

[DougPaul]

Evidently there is a weak layer low down in many of the western snowpacks. Doesn't seem to be a problem here in the NE.

Doug

 

[Chip]

I'm not sure how the snowmobilers approach this out west, they can cover so many miles it would seem impossible to know the conditions. If I was skiing an official trail at Jackson Hole, I wouldn't assume I needed Avi training/knowledge.

 

[skiguy]

I'm not sure how the snowmobilers approach this out west, they can cover so many miles it would seem impossible to know the conditions. If I was skiing an official trail at Jackson Hole, I wouldn't assume I needed Avi training/knowledge.

As far as snowmobilers they are responsible for evaluating and knowing the present Avy Conditions through their own evaluation and reading the general advisories. Inbounds Avy control is a regular thing at a resort like Jackson Hole but that does not mean the Resort guarantees that the entire resort is AVY free. This is why I stated that as a skier it is your personal responsibility to be able to evaluate and make decisions on your own. I have skied JHole alot among other areas inbounds with Proper AVY Gear. West of the Mississippi the mentality is a bit different as the snowfalls are typically bigger and the terrain WAY larger. If you look at some of the Stats given above you will see that many of the Avy accidents are within ski area boundaries. It is assumptions that get people in trouble much of the time when it comes to Avys. Be safe and prepared and not sorry. By the way the area at JHole where the skier died had been controled by the Ski Patrol.

 

[WinterWarlock]

As far as snowmobilers they are responsible for evaluating and knowing the present Avy Conditions through their own evaluation and reading the general advisories. Inbounds Avy control is a regular thing at a resort like Jackson Hole but that does not mean the Resort guarantees that the entire resort is AVY free. This is why I stated that as a skier it is your personal responsibility to be able to evaluate and make decisions on your own. I have skied JHole alot among other areas inbounds with Proper AVY Gear. West of the Mississippi the mentality is a bit different as the snowfalls are typically bigger and the terrain WAY larger. If you look at some of the Stats given above you will see that many of the Avy accidents are within ski area boundaries. It is assumptions that get people in trouble much of the time when it comes to Avys. Be safe and prepared and not sorry. By the way the area at JHole where the skier died had been controlled by the Ski Patrol.

I was in Colorado last winter, and one of the local radio stations had an Avy Report every hour...I thought that was a good indicator of how serious it is out that way.

The Headwall that collapsed yesterday at Jackson Hole had apparently just been skied by patrol, and they had dropped some nearby charges to clear another problem when the slide went.

All in all it is very sobering news to read...

 

[Chip]

If I was skiing an official trail at Jackson Hole, I wouldn't assume I needed Avi training/knowledge.

And I'd be wrong.

I've traveled/hiked out west but never skied there. Are you indicating "all" in-bound skiers at western resorts are responsible for evaluating avi conditions themselves ? I wonder. I certainly know many people who've skied there that had no clue.

 

[WinterWarlock]

It keeps getting worse...

Just saw this news flash on my RSS Reader...

Eight snowmobilers are still missing in B.C. after two avalanches covered the group near Fernie. Three of the total group of eleven survived. All were from the small town of Wilkes, population 4,000. Tragic. Last year saw the highest number of avalanche fatalities on record in the U.S. and North America overall, and this year could be off to an even deadlier start. Lets hope the trend slows down. Be careful out there folks.

UPDATE: Seven bodies have been recovered according to the AP.

 

[skiguy]

And I'd be wrong.

I've traveled/hiked out west but never skied there. Are you indicating "all" in-bound skiers at western resorts are responsible for evaluating avi conditions themselves ? I wonder. I certainly know many people who've skied there that had no clue.

Chip I can not say that "all" inbound Skiers at Western Resorts are responsible for evaluating Avy conditions but they "SHOULD BE". Although that does not mean that someone without any AVY training should not be skiing at Western Resorts. What I think it does come down to is understanding the potential hazards and with that understanding the terrain. Certain areas are more subject to Avalanches and knowing those areas is pertinent. Obviously there are areas inbounds that are very safe but there are areas that are not. But again that is part of AVY education. Obiviously some Western resorts are more benign than others. For example Jackson Hole is not on that list. I guess in all it is safe to say know what you are getting into. I just got notice this AM that JHole has closed the entire area as Patrollers were out doing control efforts this AM and five patrollers were caught in an Avy in the Headwall area of the mountain. All were retrived with only minor injuries. A steep area of the mountain but the deposition zone spilled into the upper reaches of the Mid Mountain. So Black terrain peeled off moving down into Blue. In other words a large area that came from the upper reaches that extended to just above where Mid Mountain Lodges are located.

 

[DougPaul]

I've traveled/hiked out west but never skied there. Are you indicating "all" in-bound skiers at western resorts are responsible for evaluating avi conditions themselves ? I wonder. I certainly know many people who've skied there that had no clue.

Pragmatically, it is very hard for a short-term visitor to make a more accurate avalanche forecast than the local patrollers. The local patrollers are there every day and know the history (both in terms of the current snowpack and multi-year) of the area and have access to tools which the visitor cannot use (eg explosives). And I rather suspect that visitors digging evaluation pits in patrolled terrain would be frowned upon...

That said, no one can predict avalanches with 100% reliability. So even if the local experts have done their best, a visitor can still employ the same defensive measures as one would use in unpatrolled terrain--stay off risky slopes, carry transceiver, probe poles, and shovels, Avilung, etc.

As long as people continue to go out on steep snow, someone will occasionally get caught.

Doug

 

[Quietman]

On a little lighter note, this can even happen at a NH ski area! December 20th avalanche at Cannon Ski Area At least no one was injured in this one.

 

[DougPaul]

On a little lighter note, this can even happen at a NH ski area! December 20th avalanche at Cannon Ski Area At least no one was injured in this one.

Not quite the same--the trail had not been checked out, treated if deemed necessary, and declared open.

But yes, avalanches can happen in the east too.

Doug

 

[Craig]

... I guess in all it is safe to say know what you are getting into....

I would agree that you should have situational awareness anytime you’re involved in risky activities. In my mind that would include skiing at a resort.

 

[Mohamed Ellozy]

Just read a fairly long report on the avalanches in, of all places, The Wall Street Journal: Heavy Snows Trigger Deadly Avalanches.

 

[skiguy]

Not quite the same--the trail had not been checked out, treated if deemed necessary, and declared open.

But yes, avalanches can happen in the east too.

Doug

Not one is ever the same as another. Just one of the things learned in Avalanche Awareness. First lesson learned should be that Avalanches are unpredictable.

 

[cushetunk]

First lesson learned should be that Avalanches are unpredictable.

I think I am in general agreement with you but here's some nit-picking with how you said this:

Your statement is true in the sense that it's difficult to make predictions, especially about the future. But, I think it's a misleading first avalanche lesson to put it this way. A lot of factors -- terrain, anchors, layers, bonding, weather -- lead to pretty predictable results. The whole point of avalanche training, as I understand it, is to first predict where avalanches are likely, and second predict whether they are likely given the snow condition. (Third is rescue technique, but years after my class I wish I had spent more time looking at snow and less at blinking LED lights.)

Anyway, I think the first lesson should be, do more predicting (i.e. more "use your avalanche eyeballs") but know that in general the more specific your predictions, the more uncertain they become.

 

[Chip]

...it's difficult to make predictions, especially about the future.

Didn't Yogi Berra say that ?

 

[skiguy]

Anyway, I think the first lesson should be, do more predicting (i.e. more "use your avalanche eyeballs") but know that in general the more specific your predictions, the more uncertain they become.

I agree. This is definitely a more detailed version of what I was trying to say. Thanks

 

[Craig]

Just saw this news flash on my RSS Reader...

Update:
This is scary stuff