Humor me.

[DougPaul]

Its a trade-off. Traveling light reduces fatigue, reduces the chance of an accident, and allows one to run away from trouble. Carrying more gear enables one to deal with a larger range of problems, but it increases fatigue, increases the chance of an accident, and slows you down--for instance, the British discovered that "If you carry bivouac gear, you will have to bivouac" when they first visited the Alps.

But the most important piece of safety gear doesn't require any additional weight--knowledge and experience.

Doug

 

[sapblatt]

I am definitely on the over prepared side...I always like to ask myself "what would you do if you had to spend the night outside? would you have the gear to make it through?" The amount of gear needed in my mind depends on the time of year, weather, hours of daylight, solo vs. group, popularity of the trail etc...

Another factor that plays into it for a lot of us is that while most of the time nothing will ever happen that is too bad to deal with, the more times you hike the more chances something could happen. 5-10 pounds is a very small insurance policy.

 

[jfb]

I usually carry the minimum amount of gear for the conditions I expect to find that day. That will include:

1. Enough clothing to keep warm while hiking, including an extra insulation (top and bottom) layer for resting.
2. Water and food for the day.
3. Crampons, snowshoes, ice axe and/or poles depending on circumstances.
4. Map and compass, unless I'm familiar with the area.
5. Headlamp and backup flashlight.
6. Extra mittens and hat.

 

[forestgnome]

OK, I guess I just don't get it. I feel zero fatigue with a 25lb pack on a 15 mile day hike. I suppose if I was used to just walking or jogging without a pack, then a 10 lb pack would generate fatigue. BTW, is fatigue not a part of exercise? Certainly, fatigue would be an issue when your shivering like a jackhammer and your body temp is plummetting. Whatever.

Happy Trails, all!

 

[sierra]

I do not overpack, it might look like it, but imo, when in the high country you should carry what you need for ALL situations and that results in a fair size load. Those who go light you take the chance (sorry Bruno), the odds may be long on most occasions, but at least give me that on the high peaks winter like weather can and has hit at every month of the year. Besides I solo and I make summits 99% of the time, because even when its nasty as can be, I got the gear to not only survive but to be successfull in my summit attempt.
As far as the comments on woman needing help carrieing their gear, tasteless at best. As a single climber, I happen to be looking for a woman that can hike/climb right next to me, not only carrieing her own gear, but equaling or bettering me in all my mountain exploits.

 

[hikerbrian]

You make a good point, forestnome. I mean, I can usually make it about 75 miles with my 130 lb pack before I start to feel fatigue. That said, I usually opt for 5-10 pounds of food, water and gear for a day hike, and I'm confident I could survive an overnight with that.

A couple of summers ago I saw a dude skiing down the Emmons glacier on Mt. Rainier. I talked to a ranger at camp Schurman about it and he was not in the least bit surprised or alarmed. "Everyone has their own threshold for risk," he said, "and we're not here to tell you what to do."

 

[Raymond]

As I've said before, we met a young fellow in the Adirondacks several years ago who always carried a huge pack with a sleeping bag, tent, cook pots, and everything else he might need "just in case," no matter how short the hike. He needed a knee operation when he was about 19 years old.

I can't bear the stone on my back, so I use a fanny pack, and usually there's nothing in there but water, trail mix, granola bars, Gatorade, bandages, moleskin, bacitracin, gauze, knife, spare sunglasses, headlight, head (bug) net, pen, toilet paper, compass, whistle, flashing light, and a space blanket. If it's chilly, fleece gloves and head band and a Gore-tex jacket. And anything else I've forgotten to mention.

I'll leave instructions to have Susan sign on and inform you of my passing if it becomes necessary.

 

[forestgnome]

This grows old, but it's extremely important. Fast-n-light advocates here are exagerating the idea of preparedness to make their point ("carrying the whole EMS store", "everything but the kitchen sink",etc.) We're talking about being prepared for a few situations that happen often, such as getting stuck and suffering/dying from hypothermia. All you need is a few pounds of clothes to save your life. You may call that "overpacking"; I call that common sense.

Let's all hike our own hike, but I hope noone teaches their children to jog in the mountains unprepared.

Happy Trails!

 

[giggy]

I would just kill a bear or moose and cut the guts open and sleep inside the carcass.

 

[timmus]

Let's all hike our own hike...

Happy Trails!

Exactly. There is unprepared people on trails, it is true. As far as nothing bad happen to them, I don't care much.

About the women who let her man carry her stuff, I would say that she is probably with a guy who feels good showing his fragile girlfriend how strong he is by carrying all the gear.

 

[bruno]

good lord amighty!! let's not get all verklempty here!!! but i would point out the (maybe apocryphal) tale o' ol' john muir out in californy trampin' roun' wif nuthin' but a crust o' stale bread and a warm coat (or somethin' like that!! ). don't get me wrong--i like gear and toys as much as the next guy, but a lot of crap we cart around is sold to us by advertising and all. ya don't need it!!!!

don't drink the kool-aid!!!
save yer scratch!!! buy plane tix!!!!

 

[sapblatt]

I would just kill a bear or moose and cut the guts open and sleep inside the carcass.

Great plan - warm, water and wind proof shelter and lots of protein for dinner!

I agree with forestnome - a few pounds of clothes can make the difference - you do not need to pack an army surplus store, just enough to make a difference.

 

[giggy]

Exactly. There is unprepared people on trails, it is true. As far as nothing bad happen to them, I don't care much.

About the women who let her man carry her stuff, I would say that she is probably with a guy who feels good showing his fragile girlfriend how strong he is by carrying all the gear.

I think whoever said this earlier was just having some fun as to what we have all seen on the trail - do we really need to over-analyze (timmus - just using your quote to add to subject - I agree with your statement ) this into a sexist issue. I used to do that exact same thing for my wife who loved hiking - but didn't like carrying the gear (she has some back trouble) - I think we all all climbed both with women and men and we all there is no difference for folks that consider themselves hikers or climbers.

lets continue to have a bit humor in our posts.

 

[timmus]

lets continue to have a bit humor in our posts.

I was trying to be humorous... Maybe I should have added this : to my post. I really have to learn how to use those smilies. I thought they were just there to put nice colors in the threads. (again : )

 

[forestgnome]

Oops, bad editing. Of corse I feel fatigue after a 15 mile hike. I wanted to say that extra weight of the pack causes no undo fatigue. I'm hiking through the mountains, the pack is like a part of me.

Also, when I want to move fast, I can. Once I was enjoying a ridge on a beautiful day, not wanting to come down, then I realized I was going to be late for dinner. I ran non-stop from Mt. Monroe to the Edmunds Trailhead with my daypack. It didn't slow me down. Turkey legs with rosemary and sage were in the crockpot.

 

[Maddy]

[ ya don't need it!!!!

Seriously...lets hope you don't need it 'cause you surely won't have it. It will be a moot point.

I have a question for those on the boards who do SAR. Would a hiker be fined if he/she got into a big mess directly related to lack of preparedness and subsequently require a rescue? Of course they would have to be found in time to be rescued.
Would this ever be considered reckless behavior?
Say in the case of my friends who were caught in the ice storm on Tuck R. If any of them had slid down the headwall and been gravely injured as a direct result of becoming so hypothermic that they could not negotiate the terrain, would anyone have been held accountable? Three of those five people were in their late teens.
We often discuss not calling 911 for help but assuming responsibility for our own rescue if humanly possible. How can we do this when we are carrying none of the essentials necessary to survive when things dreadfully wrong when you least expect it?
Having been a victim of severe hypothermia I can tell you it's not pretty. It's every bit as bad as what the books tell you and then some.
Once you experience it, if you are fortunate enough to survive, you will never forget it.
What's a few pounds of gear if there is even a slim chance that it will help save your life?
I just don't understand why someone would risk the possibility of dying on a mountain just to "go lite".
It seems like there are so many things out there that we have no control over, why place ourselves in danger deliberately and needlessly?

 

[hikerbrian]

I just don't understand why someone would risk the possibility of dying on a mountain just to "go lite".

I think that what perhaps hasn't come through in the posts so far is that, with good decision making, a very few things are needed to survive an unplanned event.

Furthermore, if someone wants to venture into the woods with few or no provisions, that is their perogative. I don't try to make other people's decisions for them. Well, there are a couple of exceptions to that rule.

Finally, there are people, even on this board, who would stand a better chance surviving a night out with a fleece top and a space blanket than would another who is fully provisioned, but with less experience and/or the wrong mindset.

 

[forestgnome]

Finally, there are people, even on this board, who would stand a better chance surviving a night out with a fleece top and a space blanket than would another who is fully provisioned, but with less experience and/or the wrong mindset.

This is quite true, but carrying a fleece top and space blanket is being prepared. We're talking about people who don't carry anything. How much does a fleece and a space blanket weigh?

Maddy, I'm with you on this one, but as far as a rescue is concerned, you'd probably still need a rescue attempt by SAR. The difference would be weather or not you were alive when they find you.

Your experience with hypothermia is creepy. I'm really happy that you're still with us. Thanks for sharing that story. You came out of it with prescious experience and wisdom.

 

[dug]

I think, also, there are different levels of opinion on what is needed, what is wanted, and what is a luxury. You could survive the night out with a sweater and a tarp. You wouldn't be comfortable, but you could survive. In fact, you probably don't even need those to survive.

Every extra piece of gear brings you closer to spending the night comfortably. It ranges from zero comfort to luxury, and the weight of your pack and cost of your gear increases as your comfort level increases.

Whether you have tons of gear or no gear, neither is the correct nor incorrect answer. Each hiker has a different level of survival skills, comfort level, and fitness. All these factors come into play. For anyone to see someone's avatar and think that person has too much, or too little, is quite comical. You don't know me, and you don't know how well I could survive with just a pocketknife and a lighter.

As I mentioned a while ago, we can't be too quick to judge someone just because of the size of the pack.

 

[Remix]

And besides comfort level, skills, and fitness, there is also the unique experience is hiker is seeking. More in the pack can gives more flexibility for dealing with unanticipated events and changing plans.

Some people are more process-oriented, and want to be prepared for any contingency that might arise. Other people want to be flexible, and would not hesistate to spend an extra night somewhere if they wanted to*. And some people are more goal-oriented and want to be at certain places in certain amounts of time.

(*after updating their contact with their new plans by cellphone).