I-93 crash

[rup]

Weather Chnl has been reporting 75-100 car crash on I-93N just N of exit 24 (Ashland) due to white-out ~10am. Cars ablaze, etc. Must be a mess.

 

[marnof]

Weather Channel hyping the story? I'm seeing reports of 35-car pileup, which is bad enough. Hopefully no one is seriously injured.

 

[David Metsky]

Initial reports were higher. The numbers have been revised down, and the scene has been cleared and the highway is opened.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/01/02/snow-squalls-cause-massive-crash-on-interstate-93-in-nh/

 

[summitseeker]

I was on that section right around 9:30 and most people were proceeding at low speeds. I'm glad no one was seriously injured or killed.

Be well,

Z

 

[hiking lady]

I just missed getting involved with that by chance. I can see why it happened, it went right into white out conditions.

 

[Greg YEAH!]

Does the lack of winter hiking knowledge correlate to the lack of winter driving knowledge? Anybody catch how many of the plates were out of state? WMUR was reporting one critical injury.

 

[BISCUT]

In those conditions it only takes 1 car, instate or outa state to cause it. Sad, but so many times it's people who just should have stayed home. It's all about knowing and experience. I'm some bad ass LE....but I've been running the 91 VT corridor in a lot of nasty weather where I know what to expect when it's a blizzard and that tractor trailer unit with QB plates is pushing me to pass....blindness for 20 seconds or so. I've driven as a cop and civi for soooo many miles. I have to say VT and Northern NH drivers are almost always courteous and good to go. CT is horrid! I have to get to VA to see a driver as selfish as CT drivers.

 

[rup]

Thanks for the update. Glad to hear it was relatively 'harmless'.

 

[TJsName]

Does the lack of winter hiking knowledge correlate to the lack of winter driving knowledge? Anybody catch how many of the plates were out of state? WMUR was reporting one critical injury.

Much like in hiking, experience is part of it, but equipment is too.

My brother lives out in CO, and I-70 frequently has issues with winter weather starting a chain reaction of issues. There was quite a bit of hub-bub about it being out-of-state drivers (big tourist destination) driving out of their element. when CDOT dug deeper they figured out it's really people not taking car of their cars and driving around in the snow with bald tires (I.E., the problem was being caused by locals). They are doing a big push to make people aware of the bald tire issue. It's a big point out there as traffic sometimes slows down, and then cars have trouble getting moving again going uphill, and thus exacerbate the problem.

https://www.codot.gov/news/dailyclips/november-2014-clips/november-14-2014

 

[KRobi]

My wife and I decided to get a late start and go up and do Liberty. Luckily for us she decided to throw together a beef stew in the crockpot. This had us leave the house a minute or so after our planned departure. We missed the pile up (but enjoyed about an hour of waiting just north of exit 24). The first responders had to get by those of us in the traffic jam. Just before Ashland (exit 24) there was a light dusting, stuff that cars just blow off the highway and all lanes were dry. There was a plow truck plowing the bit in the breakdown lane which caused me to say (sarcastic tone) what a waste of time and energy. Within 30 seconds of this we passed Exit 24 and hit the white out where the snow was thick and heavy and immediately covered the road. We were able to stop but I didn't think the truck in back of us would (jackknifed) but pulled it out and stopped. It continued snowing hard for a few more minutes but then cleared. As far as the drivers in the pileup the plates were from all over. Many people with skis. I would be the first to say that many people drive like Newtons 1st law of motion does not apply to their vehicle. It does, but I don't know if that would have mattered as this came on so quickly. Seemed to be more like a black ice issue where you are going along ok and then wham.

 

[Greg YEAH!]

I would be the first to say that many people drive like Newtons 1st law of motion does not apply to their vehicle.


That is sooooo middle-school-science teacheresque. I would have to say that an E-Class Mercedes travelling at 80mph up I-93 exerts approximately....let's see 4,000 lbs x 80mph = 320,000 lbs miles/h, and 1 lb mile/h is equal to 0.202773933 m kg / s which is equal to 65,000 m kg/s. So the force is equal to the final momentum minus initial momentum divided by the time so let's say it took approximately 2 seconds to release the momentum...........................that equals 32,500 Newtons.

 

[TJsName]

I would be the first to say that many people drive like Newtons 1st law of motion does not apply to their vehicle.


That is sooooo middle-school-science teacheresque. I would have to say that an E-Class Mercedes travelling at 80mph up I-93 exerts approximately....let's see 4,000 lbs x 80mph = 320,000 lbs miles/h, and 1 lb mile/h is equal to 0.202773933 m kg / s which is equal to 65,000 m kg/s. So the force is equal to the final momentum minus initial momentum divided by the time so let's say it took approximately 2 seconds to release the momentum...........................that equals 32,500 Newtons.

Perhaps that truck was carrying Fig Newtons. I bet a fully loaded trailer can hold at least a million fruited cakes, which should be enough to stop 35 cars.

 

[psyculman]

I would be the first to say that many people drive like Newtons 1st law of motion does not apply to their vehicle.


That is sooooo middle-school-science teacheresque. I would have to say that an E-Class Mercedes travelling at 80mph up I-93 exerts approximately....let's see 4,000 lbs x 80mph = 320,000 lbs miles/h, and 1 lb mile/h is equal to 0.202773933 m kg / s which is equal to 65,000 m kg/s. So the force is equal to the final momentum minus initial momentum divided by the time so let's say it took approximately 2 seconds to release the momentum...........................that equals 32,500 Newtons.

And THAT'S why I drive a Civic!

But, seriously, it is almost always there are at least three sightings of NH State Police on the drive up 93 to Littleton. YOU ARE FORTUNATE up there to have State Police who actually DO something. I see in my short 10 minute drive to work, everyday for 17 yr. on Rt.2/190 Mass. State Police pushing the fast lane line of cars out of the way. At 80 mph. They all get out of the way, and, the SP vanishes over the horizon, and they all get back out into the fast lane, and resume 80 mph. If I could, I would give YOUR guys a hug, and buy them coffee. Deadly accidents happen all the time, because Mass drivers don't have anything to worry about.

 

[KRobi]

I would be the first to say that many people drive like Newtons 1st law of motion does not apply to their vehicle.


That is sooooo middle-school-science teacheresque. I would have to say that an E-Class Mercedes travelling at 80mph up I-93 exerts approximately....let's see 4,000 lbs x 80mph = 320,000 lbs miles/h, and 1 lb mile/h is equal to 0.202773933 m kg / s which is equal to 65,000 m kg/s. So the force is equal to the final momentum minus initial momentum divided by the time so let's say it took approximately 2 seconds to release the momentum...........................that equals 32,500 Newtons.

Wow, that is a response that a stay at home (for two more days) math teacher with too much time on his hands would give.

 

[DayTrip]

I thought the issue with this crash was visibility, not road conditions? I've driven in the snow plenty and when everything is fine and all of a sudden it starts snowing like the next ice age is coming there is not much you can do. If you suddenly drop down from 70 mph to 30 mph to adjust to the conditions while the guy behind you is just coming up on the conditions he's going to plow right into you. It's like a sudden patch of ground fog. All is well and then suddenly you're blind. Even if everyone reacts exactly as they are supposed to the differences in speed and distance will likely cause an accident. If the traffic is heavy you get a mess.

Having said that, people do drive like idiots: driving 10 feet off your bumper at 80 mph, driving with no comprehension of the conditions, etc. I do a TON of driving for work and hiking (about 81,000 miles in the last 21 months) and the "stupid driver" phenomenon is not unique to NH, locals or tourists. It is a Northeast epidemic.

 

[Breeze]

My husband and I were enjoying lunch yesterday when WMUR 9 went into disaster mode with this incident.

I, personally, nearly fell off my stool, when one of those interviewed was complaining that " my GPS never gave me any warning."

C'mon, REALLY ???????? Do people actually let their GPS act as their auto pilot ?

Breeze

 

[summitseeker]

My husband and I were enjoying lunch yesterday when WMUR 9 went into disaster mode with this incident.

I, personally, nearly fell off my stool, when one of those interviewed was complaining that " my GPS never gave me any warning."

C'mon, REALLY ???????? Do people actually let their GPS act as their auto pilot ?

Breeze

I think that person needs to upgrade from the standard GPS to an R2D2. The R2D2 will alert pilots and drivers with a series of whistles and beeps that, over time, can be understood as "droid speak".

Then again, if Luke Skywalker had heeded R2's warnings he never would have crashed into the swamp in the Dagobah System and met Yoda.

And we all know how that story would likely end


Be well,

Z

 

[Driver8]

My husband and I were enjoying lunch yesterday when WMUR 9 went into disaster mode with this incident.

I, personally, nearly fell off my stool, when one of those interviewed was complaining that " my GPS never gave me any warning."

C'mon, REALLY ???????? Do people actually let their GPS act as their auto pilot ?

Breeze

Funny. The Waze app tracks the speed of its users and warns of reported hazards. I wonder how quickly it warned users: "Slow down, accident ahead." Probably took a minute or two, but might have helped cut down on ppl driving unawares into the pile-up. I use it all the time for any drive of more than 50 miles, sometimes for shorter ones, too. Don't think Siri/Apple and Google Maps do this as well as Waze yet.

 

[Stan]

It never ceases to amaze me how many drivers tailgate and/or drive too fast for conditions, even under some of the worse conditions. I've been in a number of white outs in my travels, both fog and snow, some temporary, and the first thing I do is turn on the hazard lights and slow down to the point that I feel I can stop in the distance I can see ... sometimes that means 20 mph or less. Even in better visibility there is no shame in slowing to 40 or less when the roads start to get slick.

Coming home from one winter roadtrip where over 10,000 miles we hadn't seen so much as a fender bender ... until we hit wet snow in Pennsylvania and in the course of the next two hours saw 12 ... yes 12 ... jackknifed or overturned 18 wheelers ... and you'd think those are the professional drivers who should know better. Idiots. Lucky they didn't kill anyone 'cause you don't win a battle with 18 wheelers ... the lawyer for your estate might but you don't. There were also 4 cars in various states of distress in the median or the ditch.

With a lot of miles behind me, literally and figuratively, I'm pretty conficdent as a safe driver but one thing has always baffled me. In a "falling rock" zone, do you slow down in case there are falling rocks or do you speed up and get out of the hazard pronto?

 

[TJsName]

It never ceases to amaze me how many drivers tailgate and/or drive too fast for conditions, even under some of the worse conditions. I've been in a number of white outs in my travels, both fog and snow, some temporary, and the first thing I do is turn on the hazard lights and slow down to the point that I feel I can stop in the distance I can see ... sometimes that means 20 mph or less. Even in better visibility there is no shame in slowing to 40 or less when the roads start to get slick.

This is a great topic as many a winter hike often involves some kind of winter driving (even if it's just through the notches), so I bet a lot of us have given it some thought.

I'm fairly confident that the most dangerous part of traveling with traffic is the speed gradient, regardless of which side of the spectrum a driver may fall on. If conditions are poor and 'traffic' is generally going 45, it seems just as reckless to me to go 25 as it does to go 65. It would be my hope that someone not comfortable driving with the flow of traffic in bad conditions would just not drive, as confidence (but not cockiness) is important. If someone feels that traffic is going too fast, but they are confident that their speed is reasonable, then pull over and let people by and continue at your own pace. I think most drivers recognize when someone (even themselves) is driving much too fast for traffic conditions (tailgating/intimidating, lots of lane changes, etc), but driving too slowly is also a hazard as it forces traffic through a choke point (especially if the offending driver is in a passing lane). This results in lots of extra lane changes by other drivers and the slowing down of at least two lanes of travel as a result - which I would argue is overall a more dangerous situation for everyone. Of course, this is just conjecture and opinions on my part - I'd be fascinated if someone had any data on the phenomenon.

I have a few friends that don't like driving in the snow. I frequently recommend practicing in a snowy parking lot to get a feel for how your car handles in the snow, as well as how easily it can slide and how to correct a slide. There are some pretty fun driving courses people can take too that can really boost winter driving confidence. You could also take up racing on Newfound Lake!

Anyway, just don't be like my dad, who while driving down Bethoud Pass at 5 under the speed limit created a queue of around 15 cars behind him. I suggested he use one of the [many many] pull-outs to let people pass. He replied, "Why would anyone want to go any faster than this?" and continued driving. This is now an oft-quoted phrase whenever we get stuck behind an oblivious or self-appointed pace car.